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bearishgurl.
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June 30, 2010 at 5:44 PM #575088June 30, 2010 at 5:55 PM #574068
CA renter
Participant[quote=pemeliza]”The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”
I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.[/quote]
BINGO!
[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.
[/quote]It’s hard to ignore the flippers when they are your competition. There have been a number of “open market” sales where we were waiting for the price to fall, but a flipper swooped in and overpaid (for what it was) only to sell to some clueless idiot who was willing to pay $150K for a $20K “upgrade.” Sorry, but it’s extremely frustrating. I think jpinpb and I are looking for the same types of properties — older homes in established neighborhoods — and flippers are all over these properties if they are not already upgraded…and YES, they are willing to pay more than organic buyers because they know that fools are out there who will pay the $150K-$200K premium for a $20K-$30K upgrade package. This IS our competition.
[quote=pemeliza]
In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.[/quote]No, the other organic buyers are our competition no matter what. The difference is that the buyers who purchase overpriced flips have to finance the upgrades while we (not sure about jp) are not financing the upgrates (we would pay cash for everything). Flippers enable these buyers to finance the upgrades (with a hefty premium because they can be financed!) instead of having to pay for the upgrades out of pocket. This absolutely increases prices. This is the difference between a market without flippers and a market with flippers. They **absolutely do** affect prices.
Again, in and INVENTORY CONSTRAINED market, any additional demand will affect prices. Flippers represent additional demand, and they are affecting the comps for those of us who do not want to pay for their “upgrades.”
June 30, 2010 at 5:55 PM #574165Participant[quote=pemeliza]”The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”
I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.[/quote]
BINGO!
[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.
[/quote]It’s hard to ignore the flippers when they are your competition. There have been a number of “open market” sales where we were waiting for the price to fall, but a flipper swooped in and overpaid (for what it was) only to sell to some clueless idiot who was willing to pay $150K for a $20K “upgrade.” Sorry, but it’s extremely frustrating. I think jpinpb and I are looking for the same types of properties — older homes in established neighborhoods — and flippers are all over these properties if they are not already upgraded…and YES, they are willing to pay more than organic buyers because they know that fools are out there who will pay the $150K-$200K premium for a $20K-$30K upgrade package. This IS our competition.
[quote=pemeliza]
In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.[/quote]No, the other organic buyers are our competition no matter what. The difference is that the buyers who purchase overpriced flips have to finance the upgrades while we (not sure about jp) are not financing the upgrates (we would pay cash for everything). Flippers enable these buyers to finance the upgrades (with a hefty premium because they can be financed!) instead of having to pay for the upgrades out of pocket. This absolutely increases prices. This is the difference between a market without flippers and a market with flippers. They **absolutely do** affect prices.
Again, in and INVENTORY CONSTRAINED market, any additional demand will affect prices. Flippers represent additional demand, and they are affecting the comps for those of us who do not want to pay for their “upgrades.”
June 30, 2010 at 5:55 PM #574688Participant[quote=pemeliza]”The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”
I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.[/quote]
BINGO!
[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.
[/quote]It’s hard to ignore the flippers when they are your competition. There have been a number of “open market” sales where we were waiting for the price to fall, but a flipper swooped in and overpaid (for what it was) only to sell to some clueless idiot who was willing to pay $150K for a $20K “upgrade.” Sorry, but it’s extremely frustrating. I think jpinpb and I are looking for the same types of properties — older homes in established neighborhoods — and flippers are all over these properties if they are not already upgraded…and YES, they are willing to pay more than organic buyers because they know that fools are out there who will pay the $150K-$200K premium for a $20K-$30K upgrade package. This IS our competition.
[quote=pemeliza]
In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.[/quote]No, the other organic buyers are our competition no matter what. The difference is that the buyers who purchase overpriced flips have to finance the upgrades while we (not sure about jp) are not financing the upgrates (we would pay cash for everything). Flippers enable these buyers to finance the upgrades (with a hefty premium because they can be financed!) instead of having to pay for the upgrades out of pocket. This absolutely increases prices. This is the difference between a market without flippers and a market with flippers. They **absolutely do** affect prices.
Again, in and INVENTORY CONSTRAINED market, any additional demand will affect prices. Flippers represent additional demand, and they are affecting the comps for those of us who do not want to pay for their “upgrades.”
June 30, 2010 at 5:55 PM #574794Participant[quote=pemeliza]”The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”
I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.[/quote]
BINGO!
[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.
[/quote]It’s hard to ignore the flippers when they are your competition. There have been a number of “open market” sales where we were waiting for the price to fall, but a flipper swooped in and overpaid (for what it was) only to sell to some clueless idiot who was willing to pay $150K for a $20K “upgrade.” Sorry, but it’s extremely frustrating. I think jpinpb and I are looking for the same types of properties — older homes in established neighborhoods — and flippers are all over these properties if they are not already upgraded…and YES, they are willing to pay more than organic buyers because they know that fools are out there who will pay the $150K-$200K premium for a $20K-$30K upgrade package. This IS our competition.
[quote=pemeliza]
In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.[/quote]No, the other organic buyers are our competition no matter what. The difference is that the buyers who purchase overpriced flips have to finance the upgrades while we (not sure about jp) are not financing the upgrates (we would pay cash for everything). Flippers enable these buyers to finance the upgrades (with a hefty premium because they can be financed!) instead of having to pay for the upgrades out of pocket. This absolutely increases prices. This is the difference between a market without flippers and a market with flippers. They **absolutely do** affect prices.
Again, in and INVENTORY CONSTRAINED market, any additional demand will affect prices. Flippers represent additional demand, and they are affecting the comps for those of us who do not want to pay for their “upgrades.”
June 30, 2010 at 5:55 PM #575093Participant[quote=pemeliza]”The last on Felton was a courthouse steps property, I believe. If he/she/they actually sell for over 200k profit, I don’t consider that a slim profit margin and it is manipulating the appraisal comps for future properties.”
I think I see your frustration now JP. For whatever reason buyers so desperately want a “turnkey” property that they will pay way over what you think is reasonable because you know as well as anyone else who has ever done any remodel work knows what the 2k granite countertops and 2k GE stainless appliance packages are actually worth. Thus you are pricing in say a 20k-30k premium above wholesale price given the cost of the “upgrades” and are stunned to see the houses sell for 150-200k over that instead. I think what you might be overlooking is that apparently there is a huge market in these older areas for “turnkey” products and thus they tend to a sell at a premium above and beyond the wholesale value of the upgrades. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. People are basically paying for convenience.[/quote]
BINGO!
[quote=pemeliza]
I think the solution is to simply ignore flipper properties and focus on finding a motivated seller with a great location and great bones. If my theory is correct you will not need to compete with buyers looking for “turnkey” properties and thus you should be able to score the kind of deal you are looking for. As a qualified buyer you are in charge of how much you offer and pay. If they seller wants to sell and you are they only game in town they have to come to you. Of course, you will have to pay more than the flipper that is buying on the steps because you are not paying cash. However, I think that there is a reasonable “middle ground” and you can probably find plenty of deals that while not the steals the flippers are getting will suit you well and further I think if you look hard enough you can score a deal 30-50% under peak pricing if you keep at it and don’t get frustrated seeing what the “cash” buyers are paying.
[/quote]It’s hard to ignore the flippers when they are your competition. There have been a number of “open market” sales where we were waiting for the price to fall, but a flipper swooped in and overpaid (for what it was) only to sell to some clueless idiot who was willing to pay $150K for a $20K “upgrade.” Sorry, but it’s extremely frustrating. I think jpinpb and I are looking for the same types of properties — older homes in established neighborhoods — and flippers are all over these properties if they are not already upgraded…and YES, they are willing to pay more than organic buyers because they know that fools are out there who will pay the $150K-$200K premium for a $20K-$30K upgrade package. This IS our competition.
[quote=pemeliza]
In a way, the flippers are actually helping you and CAR because they are essentially eliminating a lot of your buyer competition by feeding the need of the “turnkey” buyer. If there were no flippers to fill this need, then everyone would have to buy a fixer and you would be competing with a lot more buyers to get that jewel in the bluff.[/quote]No, the other organic buyers are our competition no matter what. The difference is that the buyers who purchase overpriced flips have to finance the upgrades while we (not sure about jp) are not financing the upgrates (we would pay cash for everything). Flippers enable these buyers to finance the upgrades (with a hefty premium because they can be financed!) instead of having to pay for the upgrades out of pocket. This absolutely increases prices. This is the difference between a market without flippers and a market with flippers. They **absolutely do** affect prices.
Again, in and INVENTORY CONSTRAINED market, any additional demand will affect prices. Flippers represent additional demand, and they are affecting the comps for those of us who do not want to pay for their “upgrades.”
June 30, 2010 at 6:06 PM #574073Participant[quote=SD Realtor]JP not true at all. The appraisals and BPOs use the sales off the MLS. Flippers dont buy from flippers. They are buyers not flippers.
Also a buyer is a buyer is a buyer. Ask any appraiser where he gets his comps. He gets them from the MLS, he doesn’t go to trustee sales. Now you track properties, you can go to the tax rolls to see how many of them had trustee sales to 3rd parties to form comps. See for yourself and add the stats.
Again, there seems to be a FUNDAMENTAL premise that the home would sell for much less if it was put out on the market by the bank. Why is that? Do you really think that that many of the buyers out there are flippers? So far there are 2 or 3 properties mentioned… I just don’t get it.
When you say “many” of those buyers are flippers can you quantify that? Pick an area and I will look at the past 20 sales and we can see who was a flipper. Please pick an area that you or CAR want to buy in so we can see how all these flippers are squeezing you guys out. Finally if the data was available to show how many people in those same areas were being aided by banks I think we would clearly see which had more of an effect.[/quote]
SDR,
Again, you are focusing on the TS flips…and that is NOT my focus. I’m referring to homes that are short sales, REOs, and regular sales that are close to tempting, but not low enough for buyers who intend to make their own improvements and live in the home for the duration.
As far as I’m concerned, the buyers who overpay for the typical flipper upgrades are as much a part of the problem as the flippers themselves.
It’s just that after all these years of the HGTV fools and flippers, it would be nice to see a market dictated only by people who are bringing significant money to the table and who understand the market. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to new buyers who had no idea the house was flipped or how much the flipper paid (until I told them). It’s sickening to see how uninformed people are…and THIS is what we’re competing against. It sucks!
BTW, there is NO disagreement between us about what is really driving the market right now: government and lender conspiracies to hold back inventory and increase subsidies to buyers in an attempt to artificially force prices up to abnormal and unsustainable levels. The thing is, since the lenders/govt are doing this, it creates a **supply-constrained** environment where fraud and flips will affect the market much more than if we had a free market.
June 30, 2010 at 6:06 PM #574170Participant[quote=SD Realtor]JP not true at all. The appraisals and BPOs use the sales off the MLS. Flippers dont buy from flippers. They are buyers not flippers.
Also a buyer is a buyer is a buyer. Ask any appraiser where he gets his comps. He gets them from the MLS, he doesn’t go to trustee sales. Now you track properties, you can go to the tax rolls to see how many of them had trustee sales to 3rd parties to form comps. See for yourself and add the stats.
Again, there seems to be a FUNDAMENTAL premise that the home would sell for much less if it was put out on the market by the bank. Why is that? Do you really think that that many of the buyers out there are flippers? So far there are 2 or 3 properties mentioned… I just don’t get it.
When you say “many” of those buyers are flippers can you quantify that? Pick an area and I will look at the past 20 sales and we can see who was a flipper. Please pick an area that you or CAR want to buy in so we can see how all these flippers are squeezing you guys out. Finally if the data was available to show how many people in those same areas were being aided by banks I think we would clearly see which had more of an effect.[/quote]
SDR,
Again, you are focusing on the TS flips…and that is NOT my focus. I’m referring to homes that are short sales, REOs, and regular sales that are close to tempting, but not low enough for buyers who intend to make their own improvements and live in the home for the duration.
As far as I’m concerned, the buyers who overpay for the typical flipper upgrades are as much a part of the problem as the flippers themselves.
It’s just that after all these years of the HGTV fools and flippers, it would be nice to see a market dictated only by people who are bringing significant money to the table and who understand the market. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to new buyers who had no idea the house was flipped or how much the flipper paid (until I told them). It’s sickening to see how uninformed people are…and THIS is what we’re competing against. It sucks!
BTW, there is NO disagreement between us about what is really driving the market right now: government and lender conspiracies to hold back inventory and increase subsidies to buyers in an attempt to artificially force prices up to abnormal and unsustainable levels. The thing is, since the lenders/govt are doing this, it creates a **supply-constrained** environment where fraud and flips will affect the market much more than if we had a free market.
June 30, 2010 at 6:06 PM #574693Participant[quote=SD Realtor]JP not true at all. The appraisals and BPOs use the sales off the MLS. Flippers dont buy from flippers. They are buyers not flippers.
Also a buyer is a buyer is a buyer. Ask any appraiser where he gets his comps. He gets them from the MLS, he doesn’t go to trustee sales. Now you track properties, you can go to the tax rolls to see how many of them had trustee sales to 3rd parties to form comps. See for yourself and add the stats.
Again, there seems to be a FUNDAMENTAL premise that the home would sell for much less if it was put out on the market by the bank. Why is that? Do you really think that that many of the buyers out there are flippers? So far there are 2 or 3 properties mentioned… I just don’t get it.
When you say “many” of those buyers are flippers can you quantify that? Pick an area and I will look at the past 20 sales and we can see who was a flipper. Please pick an area that you or CAR want to buy in so we can see how all these flippers are squeezing you guys out. Finally if the data was available to show how many people in those same areas were being aided by banks I think we would clearly see which had more of an effect.[/quote]
SDR,
Again, you are focusing on the TS flips…and that is NOT my focus. I’m referring to homes that are short sales, REOs, and regular sales that are close to tempting, but not low enough for buyers who intend to make their own improvements and live in the home for the duration.
As far as I’m concerned, the buyers who overpay for the typical flipper upgrades are as much a part of the problem as the flippers themselves.
It’s just that after all these years of the HGTV fools and flippers, it would be nice to see a market dictated only by people who are bringing significant money to the table and who understand the market. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to new buyers who had no idea the house was flipped or how much the flipper paid (until I told them). It’s sickening to see how uninformed people are…and THIS is what we’re competing against. It sucks!
BTW, there is NO disagreement between us about what is really driving the market right now: government and lender conspiracies to hold back inventory and increase subsidies to buyers in an attempt to artificially force prices up to abnormal and unsustainable levels. The thing is, since the lenders/govt are doing this, it creates a **supply-constrained** environment where fraud and flips will affect the market much more than if we had a free market.
June 30, 2010 at 6:06 PM #574799Participant[quote=SD Realtor]JP not true at all. The appraisals and BPOs use the sales off the MLS. Flippers dont buy from flippers. They are buyers not flippers.
Also a buyer is a buyer is a buyer. Ask any appraiser where he gets his comps. He gets them from the MLS, he doesn’t go to trustee sales. Now you track properties, you can go to the tax rolls to see how many of them had trustee sales to 3rd parties to form comps. See for yourself and add the stats.
Again, there seems to be a FUNDAMENTAL premise that the home would sell for much less if it was put out on the market by the bank. Why is that? Do you really think that that many of the buyers out there are flippers? So far there are 2 or 3 properties mentioned… I just don’t get it.
When you say “many” of those buyers are flippers can you quantify that? Pick an area and I will look at the past 20 sales and we can see who was a flipper. Please pick an area that you or CAR want to buy in so we can see how all these flippers are squeezing you guys out. Finally if the data was available to show how many people in those same areas were being aided by banks I think we would clearly see which had more of an effect.[/quote]
SDR,
Again, you are focusing on the TS flips…and that is NOT my focus. I’m referring to homes that are short sales, REOs, and regular sales that are close to tempting, but not low enough for buyers who intend to make their own improvements and live in the home for the duration.
As far as I’m concerned, the buyers who overpay for the typical flipper upgrades are as much a part of the problem as the flippers themselves.
It’s just that after all these years of the HGTV fools and flippers, it would be nice to see a market dictated only by people who are bringing significant money to the table and who understand the market. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to new buyers who had no idea the house was flipped or how much the flipper paid (until I told them). It’s sickening to see how uninformed people are…and THIS is what we’re competing against. It sucks!
BTW, there is NO disagreement between us about what is really driving the market right now: government and lender conspiracies to hold back inventory and increase subsidies to buyers in an attempt to artificially force prices up to abnormal and unsustainable levels. The thing is, since the lenders/govt are doing this, it creates a **supply-constrained** environment where fraud and flips will affect the market much more than if we had a free market.
June 30, 2010 at 6:06 PM #575098Participant[quote=SD Realtor]JP not true at all. The appraisals and BPOs use the sales off the MLS. Flippers dont buy from flippers. They are buyers not flippers.
Also a buyer is a buyer is a buyer. Ask any appraiser where he gets his comps. He gets them from the MLS, he doesn’t go to trustee sales. Now you track properties, you can go to the tax rolls to see how many of them had trustee sales to 3rd parties to form comps. See for yourself and add the stats.
Again, there seems to be a FUNDAMENTAL premise that the home would sell for much less if it was put out on the market by the bank. Why is that? Do you really think that that many of the buyers out there are flippers? So far there are 2 or 3 properties mentioned… I just don’t get it.
When you say “many” of those buyers are flippers can you quantify that? Pick an area and I will look at the past 20 sales and we can see who was a flipper. Please pick an area that you or CAR want to buy in so we can see how all these flippers are squeezing you guys out. Finally if the data was available to show how many people in those same areas were being aided by banks I think we would clearly see which had more of an effect.[/quote]
SDR,
Again, you are focusing on the TS flips…and that is NOT my focus. I’m referring to homes that are short sales, REOs, and regular sales that are close to tempting, but not low enough for buyers who intend to make their own improvements and live in the home for the duration.
As far as I’m concerned, the buyers who overpay for the typical flipper upgrades are as much a part of the problem as the flippers themselves.
It’s just that after all these years of the HGTV fools and flippers, it would be nice to see a market dictated only by people who are bringing significant money to the table and who understand the market. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to new buyers who had no idea the house was flipped or how much the flipper paid (until I told them). It’s sickening to see how uninformed people are…and THIS is what we’re competing against. It sucks!
BTW, there is NO disagreement between us about what is really driving the market right now: government and lender conspiracies to hold back inventory and increase subsidies to buyers in an attempt to artificially force prices up to abnormal and unsustainable levels. The thing is, since the lenders/govt are doing this, it creates a **supply-constrained** environment where fraud and flips will affect the market much more than if we had a free market.
June 30, 2010 at 6:13 PM #574078jpinpb
ParticipantCAR – Once again, thank you for eloquently conveying my thoughts on this. I am in complete agreement w/everything you’ve been saying. Just b/c I’m not licensed, doesn’t mean I don’t know what’s going on out there. My dad was a broker and I’ve been following real estate in California for a few bubbles now. The only thing I underestimated was the extent the government was going to invest in this. But I’ve recently come to realize that real estate has been pushed by the government for the past 60 years.
June 30, 2010 at 6:13 PM #574175ParticipantCAR – Once again, thank you for eloquently conveying my thoughts on this. I am in complete agreement w/everything you’ve been saying. Just b/c I’m not licensed, doesn’t mean I don’t know what’s going on out there. My dad was a broker and I’ve been following real estate in California for a few bubbles now. The only thing I underestimated was the extent the government was going to invest in this. But I’ve recently come to realize that real estate has been pushed by the government for the past 60 years.
June 30, 2010 at 6:13 PM #574698ParticipantCAR – Once again, thank you for eloquently conveying my thoughts on this. I am in complete agreement w/everything you’ve been saying. Just b/c I’m not licensed, doesn’t mean I don’t know what’s going on out there. My dad was a broker and I’ve been following real estate in California for a few bubbles now. The only thing I underestimated was the extent the government was going to invest in this. But I’ve recently come to realize that real estate has been pushed by the government for the past 60 years.
June 30, 2010 at 6:13 PM #574804ParticipantCAR – Once again, thank you for eloquently conveying my thoughts on this. I am in complete agreement w/everything you’ve been saying. Just b/c I’m not licensed, doesn’t mean I don’t know what’s going on out there. My dad was a broker and I’ve been following real estate in California for a few bubbles now. The only thing I underestimated was the extent the government was going to invest in this. But I’ve recently come to realize that real estate has been pushed by the government for the past 60 years.
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