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bearishgurl.
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June 30, 2010 at 9:14 AM #574786June 30, 2010 at 9:17 AM #573768
jpinpb
Participant[quote=CA renter]
No, I didn’t go to the auction because I had not been following the trustee sales closely. Again, the flippers are there en masse. What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?What would prices look like if there were no flippers in the market sucking up inventory and sitting on it at very inflated prices?
See, there are smart buyers who don’t want to give flippers a profit, but there are enough foolish buyers in this supply-constrained market who will bid the asking price on a flipper’s property. So, while “the market” (buyers?) sets the price, it is the most foolish buyer who’s willing to take the greatest risks who sets the price in a supply-constrained market.
Yes, flippers absolutely affect prices because they remove supply at a certain price and add it back (slowly, if prices are not working in their favor) at a much higher price.
Flippers are willing to pay more than o/o buyers because they are gambling on the FHA buyers who are willing to overpay and who will likely be in foreclosure within the next five years. For the more conservative buyers like us who have good credit and a large downpayment to lose, we’re not banking on rising prices; we’re making allowances for wage cuts and extended periods of unemployment and pension cuts. It’s a very different mindset.
If we had a market where the only bidders were organic (owner-occupier) buyers with a minimum 20% down and 28% DTI ratios (which should be the max DTI ratio on *after tax* income — the original ratio was made for better times; we all need to be more realisic about deflationary trends and a very different job market going forward), I think prices would be much lower than they are today. Add to that the supply that is being held off the market by lenders and the govt, and prices would probably be 20-30% lower *even in the “sacred” NCC areas.* Imagine what prices would do if we also allowed interest rates to float freely and if the govt stayed out of the mortgage market! (I can dream, can’t I?) 😉
If we had done things my way, there never would have been a foreclosure “crisis.”[/quote]
Thank you for clearly stating my sentiments. I can’t even get my own thoughts out of my head to write them down. You’re doing a great job at it!
I totally agree w/everything you said.
June 30, 2010 at 9:17 AM #573865Participant[quote=CA renter]
No, I didn’t go to the auction because I had not been following the trustee sales closely. Again, the flippers are there en masse. What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?What would prices look like if there were no flippers in the market sucking up inventory and sitting on it at very inflated prices?
See, there are smart buyers who don’t want to give flippers a profit, but there are enough foolish buyers in this supply-constrained market who will bid the asking price on a flipper’s property. So, while “the market” (buyers?) sets the price, it is the most foolish buyer who’s willing to take the greatest risks who sets the price in a supply-constrained market.
Yes, flippers absolutely affect prices because they remove supply at a certain price and add it back (slowly, if prices are not working in their favor) at a much higher price.
Flippers are willing to pay more than o/o buyers because they are gambling on the FHA buyers who are willing to overpay and who will likely be in foreclosure within the next five years. For the more conservative buyers like us who have good credit and a large downpayment to lose, we’re not banking on rising prices; we’re making allowances for wage cuts and extended periods of unemployment and pension cuts. It’s a very different mindset.
If we had a market where the only bidders were organic (owner-occupier) buyers with a minimum 20% down and 28% DTI ratios (which should be the max DTI ratio on *after tax* income — the original ratio was made for better times; we all need to be more realisic about deflationary trends and a very different job market going forward), I think prices would be much lower than they are today. Add to that the supply that is being held off the market by lenders and the govt, and prices would probably be 20-30% lower *even in the “sacred” NCC areas.* Imagine what prices would do if we also allowed interest rates to float freely and if the govt stayed out of the mortgage market! (I can dream, can’t I?) 😉
If we had done things my way, there never would have been a foreclosure “crisis.”[/quote]
Thank you for clearly stating my sentiments. I can’t even get my own thoughts out of my head to write them down. You’re doing a great job at it!
I totally agree w/everything you said.
June 30, 2010 at 9:17 AM #574388Participant[quote=CA renter]
No, I didn’t go to the auction because I had not been following the trustee sales closely. Again, the flippers are there en masse. What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?What would prices look like if there were no flippers in the market sucking up inventory and sitting on it at very inflated prices?
See, there are smart buyers who don’t want to give flippers a profit, but there are enough foolish buyers in this supply-constrained market who will bid the asking price on a flipper’s property. So, while “the market” (buyers?) sets the price, it is the most foolish buyer who’s willing to take the greatest risks who sets the price in a supply-constrained market.
Yes, flippers absolutely affect prices because they remove supply at a certain price and add it back (slowly, if prices are not working in their favor) at a much higher price.
Flippers are willing to pay more than o/o buyers because they are gambling on the FHA buyers who are willing to overpay and who will likely be in foreclosure within the next five years. For the more conservative buyers like us who have good credit and a large downpayment to lose, we’re not banking on rising prices; we’re making allowances for wage cuts and extended periods of unemployment and pension cuts. It’s a very different mindset.
If we had a market where the only bidders were organic (owner-occupier) buyers with a minimum 20% down and 28% DTI ratios (which should be the max DTI ratio on *after tax* income — the original ratio was made for better times; we all need to be more realisic about deflationary trends and a very different job market going forward), I think prices would be much lower than they are today. Add to that the supply that is being held off the market by lenders and the govt, and prices would probably be 20-30% lower *even in the “sacred” NCC areas.* Imagine what prices would do if we also allowed interest rates to float freely and if the govt stayed out of the mortgage market! (I can dream, can’t I?) 😉
If we had done things my way, there never would have been a foreclosure “crisis.”[/quote]
Thank you for clearly stating my sentiments. I can’t even get my own thoughts out of my head to write them down. You’re doing a great job at it!
I totally agree w/everything you said.
June 30, 2010 at 9:17 AM #574494Participant[quote=CA renter]
No, I didn’t go to the auction because I had not been following the trustee sales closely. Again, the flippers are there en masse. What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?What would prices look like if there were no flippers in the market sucking up inventory and sitting on it at very inflated prices?
See, there are smart buyers who don’t want to give flippers a profit, but there are enough foolish buyers in this supply-constrained market who will bid the asking price on a flipper’s property. So, while “the market” (buyers?) sets the price, it is the most foolish buyer who’s willing to take the greatest risks who sets the price in a supply-constrained market.
Yes, flippers absolutely affect prices because they remove supply at a certain price and add it back (slowly, if prices are not working in their favor) at a much higher price.
Flippers are willing to pay more than o/o buyers because they are gambling on the FHA buyers who are willing to overpay and who will likely be in foreclosure within the next five years. For the more conservative buyers like us who have good credit and a large downpayment to lose, we’re not banking on rising prices; we’re making allowances for wage cuts and extended periods of unemployment and pension cuts. It’s a very different mindset.
If we had a market where the only bidders were organic (owner-occupier) buyers with a minimum 20% down and 28% DTI ratios (which should be the max DTI ratio on *after tax* income — the original ratio was made for better times; we all need to be more realisic about deflationary trends and a very different job market going forward), I think prices would be much lower than they are today. Add to that the supply that is being held off the market by lenders and the govt, and prices would probably be 20-30% lower *even in the “sacred” NCC areas.* Imagine what prices would do if we also allowed interest rates to float freely and if the govt stayed out of the mortgage market! (I can dream, can’t I?) 😉
If we had done things my way, there never would have been a foreclosure “crisis.”[/quote]
Thank you for clearly stating my sentiments. I can’t even get my own thoughts out of my head to write them down. You’re doing a great job at it!
I totally agree w/everything you said.
June 30, 2010 at 9:17 AM #574791Participant[quote=CA renter]
No, I didn’t go to the auction because I had not been following the trustee sales closely. Again, the flippers are there en masse. What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?What would prices look like if there were no flippers in the market sucking up inventory and sitting on it at very inflated prices?
See, there are smart buyers who don’t want to give flippers a profit, but there are enough foolish buyers in this supply-constrained market who will bid the asking price on a flipper’s property. So, while “the market” (buyers?) sets the price, it is the most foolish buyer who’s willing to take the greatest risks who sets the price in a supply-constrained market.
Yes, flippers absolutely affect prices because they remove supply at a certain price and add it back (slowly, if prices are not working in their favor) at a much higher price.
Flippers are willing to pay more than o/o buyers because they are gambling on the FHA buyers who are willing to overpay and who will likely be in foreclosure within the next five years. For the more conservative buyers like us who have good credit and a large downpayment to lose, we’re not banking on rising prices; we’re making allowances for wage cuts and extended periods of unemployment and pension cuts. It’s a very different mindset.
If we had a market where the only bidders were organic (owner-occupier) buyers with a minimum 20% down and 28% DTI ratios (which should be the max DTI ratio on *after tax* income — the original ratio was made for better times; we all need to be more realisic about deflationary trends and a very different job market going forward), I think prices would be much lower than they are today. Add to that the supply that is being held off the market by lenders and the govt, and prices would probably be 20-30% lower *even in the “sacred” NCC areas.* Imagine what prices would do if we also allowed interest rates to float freely and if the govt stayed out of the mortgage market! (I can dream, can’t I?) 😉
If we had done things my way, there never would have been a foreclosure “crisis.”[/quote]
Thank you for clearly stating my sentiments. I can’t even get my own thoughts out of my head to write them down. You’re doing a great job at it!
I totally agree w/everything you said.
June 30, 2010 at 9:25 AM #573783Participant[quote=SD Realtor]
“What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?”
They would look the same!! CAR the flippers have nothing to do with setting the price. My goodness the price is set by the investors via BPO and APPRAISALS. Come on now.
Okay lets try this again. Prices, be it at the auction or on the free market are not set by flippers. They are set by the market. [/quote]
The markets are the flippers. The appraisals are using the comps that the flippers are selling.
[quote=SD Realtor]
You have this cast iron cement view that the market is set by sellers when in reality it is set by buyers. [/quote]Yes. And many of those buyers are investors/flippers.
June 30, 2010 at 9:25 AM #573880Participant[quote=SD Realtor]
“What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?”
They would look the same!! CAR the flippers have nothing to do with setting the price. My goodness the price is set by the investors via BPO and APPRAISALS. Come on now.
Okay lets try this again. Prices, be it at the auction or on the free market are not set by flippers. They are set by the market. [/quote]
The markets are the flippers. The appraisals are using the comps that the flippers are selling.
[quote=SD Realtor]
You have this cast iron cement view that the market is set by sellers when in reality it is set by buyers. [/quote]Yes. And many of those buyers are investors/flippers.
June 30, 2010 at 9:25 AM #574403Participant[quote=SD Realtor]
“What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?”
They would look the same!! CAR the flippers have nothing to do with setting the price. My goodness the price is set by the investors via BPO and APPRAISALS. Come on now.
Okay lets try this again. Prices, be it at the auction or on the free market are not set by flippers. They are set by the market. [/quote]
The markets are the flippers. The appraisals are using the comps that the flippers are selling.
[quote=SD Realtor]
You have this cast iron cement view that the market is set by sellers when in reality it is set by buyers. [/quote]Yes. And many of those buyers are investors/flippers.
June 30, 2010 at 9:25 AM #574509Participant[quote=SD Realtor]
“What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?”
They would look the same!! CAR the flippers have nothing to do with setting the price. My goodness the price is set by the investors via BPO and APPRAISALS. Come on now.
Okay lets try this again. Prices, be it at the auction or on the free market are not set by flippers. They are set by the market. [/quote]
The markets are the flippers. The appraisals are using the comps that the flippers are selling.
[quote=SD Realtor]
You have this cast iron cement view that the market is set by sellers when in reality it is set by buyers. [/quote]Yes. And many of those buyers are investors/flippers.
June 30, 2010 at 9:25 AM #574806Participant[quote=SD Realtor]
“What would TS prices look like if there were no flippers at the auctions?”
They would look the same!! CAR the flippers have nothing to do with setting the price. My goodness the price is set by the investors via BPO and APPRAISALS. Come on now.
Okay lets try this again. Prices, be it at the auction or on the free market are not set by flippers. They are set by the market. [/quote]
The markets are the flippers. The appraisals are using the comps that the flippers are selling.
[quote=SD Realtor]
You have this cast iron cement view that the market is set by sellers when in reality it is set by buyers. [/quote]Yes. And many of those buyers are investors/flippers.
June 30, 2010 at 9:28 AM #573788SD Realtor
ParticipantOkay let me play devils advocate… No flippers, all reos go to the bank. The bank puts them on the market…. then what.
Will the banks put all those properties on the market? The supposed thousands of flipper marketted homes? Should we expect to see s dramatic rise in inventory? Of course we should expect the banls to put all properties out on the market immediately correct? Nobody would ever think the banks manipulate inventory do they? Additionally now the banks will have substantially more properties now correct?
I guess prices will be lots lower now because those thousands of flippers will not be there on the market.
Do you really in your heart believe all of that? Do you honestly and I mean honestly believe that? In light of all the loan mods, moratoriums, fraud, inventory manipulation and all the other things going on you really feel that flipping has that much of an effect? I would turn it around and say with all the govt backstopping of banks and manipulation of inventory, flippers may be the only source NOT manipulating things right now.
Really we got into it because it was REALLY THE ONLY AVENUE we saw to make some money FOR A TEMPORARY TIMEFRAME given all the underhanded stuff going on.
June 30, 2010 at 9:28 AM #573885ParticipantOkay let me play devils advocate… No flippers, all reos go to the bank. The bank puts them on the market…. then what.
Will the banks put all those properties on the market? The supposed thousands of flipper marketted homes? Should we expect to see s dramatic rise in inventory? Of course we should expect the banls to put all properties out on the market immediately correct? Nobody would ever think the banks manipulate inventory do they? Additionally now the banks will have substantially more properties now correct?
I guess prices will be lots lower now because those thousands of flippers will not be there on the market.
Do you really in your heart believe all of that? Do you honestly and I mean honestly believe that? In light of all the loan mods, moratoriums, fraud, inventory manipulation and all the other things going on you really feel that flipping has that much of an effect? I would turn it around and say with all the govt backstopping of banks and manipulation of inventory, flippers may be the only source NOT manipulating things right now.
Really we got into it because it was REALLY THE ONLY AVENUE we saw to make some money FOR A TEMPORARY TIMEFRAME given all the underhanded stuff going on.
June 30, 2010 at 9:28 AM #574408ParticipantOkay let me play devils advocate… No flippers, all reos go to the bank. The bank puts them on the market…. then what.
Will the banks put all those properties on the market? The supposed thousands of flipper marketted homes? Should we expect to see s dramatic rise in inventory? Of course we should expect the banls to put all properties out on the market immediately correct? Nobody would ever think the banks manipulate inventory do they? Additionally now the banks will have substantially more properties now correct?
I guess prices will be lots lower now because those thousands of flippers will not be there on the market.
Do you really in your heart believe all of that? Do you honestly and I mean honestly believe that? In light of all the loan mods, moratoriums, fraud, inventory manipulation and all the other things going on you really feel that flipping has that much of an effect? I would turn it around and say with all the govt backstopping of banks and manipulation of inventory, flippers may be the only source NOT manipulating things right now.
Really we got into it because it was REALLY THE ONLY AVENUE we saw to make some money FOR A TEMPORARY TIMEFRAME given all the underhanded stuff going on.
June 30, 2010 at 9:28 AM #574514ParticipantOkay let me play devils advocate… No flippers, all reos go to the bank. The bank puts them on the market…. then what.
Will the banks put all those properties on the market? The supposed thousands of flipper marketted homes? Should we expect to see s dramatic rise in inventory? Of course we should expect the banls to put all properties out on the market immediately correct? Nobody would ever think the banks manipulate inventory do they? Additionally now the banks will have substantially more properties now correct?
I guess prices will be lots lower now because those thousands of flippers will not be there on the market.
Do you really in your heart believe all of that? Do you honestly and I mean honestly believe that? In light of all the loan mods, moratoriums, fraud, inventory manipulation and all the other things going on you really feel that flipping has that much of an effect? I would turn it around and say with all the govt backstopping of banks and manipulation of inventory, flippers may be the only source NOT manipulating things right now.
Really we got into it because it was REALLY THE ONLY AVENUE we saw to make some money FOR A TEMPORARY TIMEFRAME given all the underhanded stuff going on.
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