Nationswide protests-will they spread?

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]I am sorry I thought you had posted something about being in favor of wealth redistribution so I apologize for being incorrect about that.

I guess that we can agree to disagree about the value of labor. I think that capital and technology and research also play a far greater role in the production of goods and services then labor does with regards to private enterprise. You did once again refer to the exploitation of employees in other nations when in reality those exploited people probably have it a hell of alot better then their native citizens who do not have the jobs that they have. Once again, you view them as exploited simply because they get paid much less and have a much lower standard of living then the American counterpart who does the exact same job.

If the output of the two laborers is the same then isn’t the value of the product the same as well?

So your answer is to force the jobs to be in America simply to support an artificially high lifestyle?

Doesnt that seem peculiar to you?

I think the answer that you and I and everyone else knows to be true is the one we don’t want to face which is we have an incredibly high standard of living which is really not possible to maintain in the era of globalization. You can have as many isolationist policies as you like but eventually it will catch up. It really is not sustainable. A car is a car, a computer is a computer, they do not become more valuable because you paid an American 20x more to work on the line then you paid the Malaysian.

**************

It seems to me that perhaps one single possibility is to end all lobbying. No union contributions, no private contributions, no individual competitions. I thing ending political careers is good as well. There is no reason that anyone needs to be in congress or the senate for 30 years. A one or two term limit on any office seems to make sense to me. Perhaps a limit on advertising and campaining as well… At least some limitation such that the guy with the most money cannot win an election by bombarding the public with appearances and/or advertising.

The govt doesnt serve the people, it stopped doing that long ago.[/quote]

We’re basically in agreement about the lobbying. I just don’t want to see one side lose their voice unless the other side loses theirs as well. IMHO, we need a balanced system, and you can’t have that unless **everyone** is forced to play by the same rules.

The funny thing about globalization is that the consumers (who tend to be mostly Americans) lost far more than we’ve gained. We gained *somewhat* lower prices, but we did so at the expense of our jobs.

BTW, check out the prices of things, and you’ll see that we do not get the benefit of cheaper labor. The majority of that benefit goes to the corporation/shareholders/insiders (who no longer hire American workers). Profit margins are at historical highs…and consumers are out of jobs. We lost — big time — because of globalization.

So, if you value something based on what a consumer is willing to pay for it, the widget might cost a consumer 10%-30% less than it did as a result of globalization, but labor lost perhaps 20-60% (depends on what we’re talking about). I’d rather pay a bit more and have a society where the vast majority of people are able to work and provide for their families.

Also, capital, research, and technology ARE important to our economy. FWIW, I include “research” and “technology” under labor, not capital. Research and technology require somebody to actually work, whereas capital does not.

Did you know that the government is responsible for much of the basic research in the U.S.? Did you know that the government is behind most of our technological innovations? That’s your tax money at work.

For a look at some of the problems with private funding of research:

“But for many people who pay close attention to research and development (R&D), the biggest threat to science has been quietly occurring under the radar, even though it may be changing the very foundation of American innovation. The threat is money—specifically, the decline of government support for science and the growing dominance of private spending over American research.

The trend is undeniable. In 1965, the federal government financed more than 60 percent of all R&D in the United States. By 2006, the balance had flipped, with 65 percent of R&D in this country being funded by private interests. According to the American Association for the Advancement of Science, several of the nation’s science-driven agencies—the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Department of Agriculture, the Department of the Interior, and NASA—have been losing funding, leading to more “outsourcing” of what were once governmental science functions.”

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/oct/sciences-worst-enemy-private-funding
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But, according to some people, these govt-sponsored/paid researchers are apparently “unproductive,” since the government never does anything useful with our tax money…

[sdrealtor]

[quote=CA renter][quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
There is always a certain amount of money flowing through the economy at any given point in time. I would like to see more of that money going to the productive workers, rather than the “capitalists,” because the workers are the ones who enable that money to exist in the first place.[/quote]

Theoretically, the financial system is an efficient way of allocating capital to productive uses. For that service, they get a return.

The problem now is that the banks are the friction within our economic system.[/quote]

Lots of things can happen “theoretically,” but what happens in real life is what matters most of all.[/quote]

I just saw the unicorn I’ve been looking for the last 5 years did anyone else see it?

[CA renter]

Just ran across this. Just one of MANY examples that shows how “outsourcing” to private contractors/companies does not save taxpayers money. I would argue that it ends up costing taxpayers even more over the long run.

“The ugly truth is that virtually all of the major defense contractors in this country for years have been engaged in systemic fraudulent behavior, while receiving hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money,” said Sanders. “With the country running a nearly $15 trillion national debt, my goal is to provide as much transparency as possible about what is happening with taxpayer money.”

The report detailed how the Pentagon paid $573.7 billion during the past 10 years to more than 300 contractors involved in civil fraud cases that resulted in judgments of more than $1 million, $398 billion of which was awarded after settlement or judgment for fraud. When awards to “parent” companies are counted, the Pentagon paid more than $1.1 trillion during the past 10 years just to the 37 top companies engaged in fraud.

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=57672667-8958-44D9-936E-074DE29F9BE3

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IMHO, Bernie Sanders is one of the few politicians who is trying to serve the public’s (and taxpayers’!) best interests. It’s worthwhile to sign up for his e-mail alerts. Even if you don’t agree with him, he addresses the most important topics facing our nation. He truly understands what’s wrong with our country, and offers workable solutions to our problems.

[Coronita]

Dow is up to 11703…As expected, corp earnings are coming in above the low of the low bar set earlier. I’d say once we reach 12000, people will be happier because they’ll start to feel richer again… This protest will be finished… 🙂

[an]

[quote=flu]Dow is up to 11703…As expected, corp earnings are coming in above the low of the low bar set earlier. I’d say once we reach 12000, people will be happier because they’ll start to feel richer again… This protest will be finished… :)[/quote]
+1

[Hobie]

[quote=flu]…they’ll start to feel richer again… This protest will be finished… :)[/quote]

I dunno. Many of these folks seem to be happy being urban campers. Actually looks like fun,..if I didn’t have to go to work.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=jpinpb]I’d say they are probably “produced” by some underpaid worker in China. Too bad we are not producing them here, but that would be less money for the 1%.[/quote]

And yet here you sit, typing away on a computer…

When you (or your employer) bought this machine, most of the proceeds went to the 1%, right? And now you tell me that these evil capitalists used slave labor to build it?

And then there is this website – run is by an investment adviser – you know, one of those Wall Street guys.

Wouldn’t it be convenient if there was a nice clean line that separated the 1% from the other 99?

Let’s just ignore reality, and pretend the world is as simple as we’d like it to be.[/quote]

Why would I not use a computer? I am against the 1% owning Washington politicians and creating laws in their favor (among other things). I try very hard to restrict what I purchase and when. Just b/c I eventually do buy something does not mean I’m in favor of them controlling our government or shipping our jobs overseas. That is the point of the OWS. We are objecting to it.

As for the clean line, no one on this blog is in the 1%. If you’re making multi-millions a year, step forward and be known.

[all]

[quote=sdrealtor]
I just saw the unicorn I’ve been looking for the last 5 years did anyone else see it?[/quote]

My neighbor ran him over last night. He (the unicorn) died with a smile on his face.

[Anonymous]

[quote=jpinpb]Just b/c I eventually do buy something does not mean I’m in favor of them controlling our government or shipping our jobs overseas.[/quote]

Where did the 1% get their money?

Did the government just hand it to them?

Or did it come from sales of their products?

Who created the 1% ?

[scaredyclassic]

They fucking stole it.

Well some of em anyways.

[jpinpb]

[quote=pri_dk]Where did the 1% get their money?

Did the government just hand it to them?

Or did it come from sales of their products?

Who created the 1% ?[/quote]

Really? You want me to explain how the banks stole and defrauded billions since the course of their existence?

Start here for part 1 and here for part 2

[Anonymous]

How many of the 1% are bankers?

Do you even know who the 1% are?

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/

[UCGal]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=jpinpb]Just b/c I eventually do buy something does not mean I’m in favor of them controlling our government or shipping our jobs overseas.[/quote]

Where did the 1% get their money?

Did the government just hand it to them?

Or did it come from sales of their products?

Who created the 1% ?[/quote]
The CEO of my company has a base salary of 1.2M before bonus, options, etc. We have been in the red since he came on board a few years ago. And he’s a LOT more competant than his predecessor.

Hard to justify salaries of that scope when the company isn’t profitable.

I just hope to still have a job next week.

But he didn’t get the salary on his own… the board gave it to him. Cronyism at it’s best.

[Anonymous]

So what is a better way to determine a CEO’s salary?

Who should decide?

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk]So what is a better way to determine a CEO’s salary?

Who should decide?[/quote]

IMHO, the majority of the profits should be reinvested in the company, and the remaining portion should be divided among the employees, management, and shareholders. As is stands right now, the managers (and the board) are the ones deciding who gets what. I think the employees should have a greater say in what happens to profits and how everyone should be compensated.

That’s really what unions are all about, IMHO. Someone needs to be sitting on the other side of the table. If there is nobody there to oppose what management is doing, they can unilaterally decide to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else (and the boards of most companies are a joke — it’s a total circle jerk).

[Author]

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