Liberal Hypocrisy?

[FutureSDguy]

What I find frightening is that so many people want to seat an insecure liar in the Oval Office in 2008. (Sure, you could say that Bush lied, but then why the double standard?)

[qcomer]

I can only laugh when I look at so called educated dems/reubs wasting their time over this so called ‘news’. There is an immediate reflex action by the repubs to “intend to believe” the story without really asking for the other side of the story or Gore to explain himself. The dems on the other hand are bent on defending Gore as if he is not fallible or cannot make a mistake? More so they accuse repubs of not checking facts but assume everything contained in Gore’s response is pure truth.

Let’s face it, both of you repubs and dems are biased, egoistic bunch and deep down the real motive behind all these stupid blogs and posts is to feed your biases and egos. You are both intolerant and cannot wait to miss an opportunity to rub others noses in any story you can find. Both of you twist facts to serve your political stances. I am sick and tired of seeing adults fighting like kids.

[PD]

If Gore was really, deeply concerned about the environment, he would be working hard on retrofiting his home to be more environmentaly friendly. In post after post, he is given a free ride because he is rich, famous, a politician and has an old house. So what! Like someone else said, he needs to walk the walk.
I am actually surprised that he missed such a great opportunity. He could have spent a good portion of his film documenting all of the wonderful green changes he made to his family home. He would have been worshiped all the more!
Faugh to hypocrisy!

[ucodegen]

“i believe al gore does not do as he says he does, he’s a hypocrit. i believe he’s a hypocrit because he does not do as he says he does.”

circular argument, self fulfilling argument, whatever. you’re guilty of it.

Your statement fails in that I did not call him a hypocrite.. On top of that, your example is not fall under the grounds of the fallacy of a circular argument. Take a look at the example on the link I provided earlier. There is a very important difference between your statement and the example. As for “Dr Unkle = drunkle”.. anybody can name themselves anything on this board. I could even name myself Al Gore, but that would not make it so.

The only statement that even gets close to that is where I call his behavior as seemingly hypocritical. I did not call him a hypocrite. Since you seem too lazy to double check what you are claiming that others have said on this post.. I have conveniently given you links to mine below.
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25032
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25075
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25081
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25082
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25086
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25089
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25090
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25088

and yet you use that guy as the standard of measure. even building out half the capacity is a tremendous effort, certainly one not out of question for a man of wealth, but a tremedous effort all the same.

Also it seems that you are weak in math.. I stated that Kenneth Adelman went way overboard. Gore does not have to one half.. Adelman’s production of electricity is more than 45kWh per day. Gore consumes half of that in a month. Gore would only have to match 1/60th of Kenneth Adelman.. a far less daunting proposition (probably around 47 square feet vs Adelman’s 2800 square feet of solar array).

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

I’d like to bring this back around to something analytical and avoid name calling. Here’s how we can easily bring our carbon footprint to Zero and be like Al Gore.

Assumption:
Al uses 20x the average households energy, but buys back carbon credits for about $8,280 per year. Net carbon footprint = ZERO. He’s a hero.

Solution:
Let’s have all those average homeowners follow suit and purchase enough carbon credits to bring their footprint to zero. This comes to $8280/20 = $414. For a measly $414 per year for the average household we can all be carbon neutral like Al Gore. Then we are all heroes. Does this solve the problem ?

Now I can leave the TV on 24 hours a day and just buy another $20 in credits per year to cover it. Cool. I love this energy conservation thing.

[PerryChase]

If Gore was really, deeply concerned about the environment, he would be working hard on retrofiting his home to be more environmentaly friendly

——————-

I don't see the logic in this.   Gore has limited amount of time and if he spends his time meeting with CEOs and heads of states and convinces them to reduce pollution from factories and power plants, he would do much more good than working on his own house.  Gore's most useful contribution is as an "evangelist" for the environment.  

Like I said before, the Pope (who is the evangelist for God) lives in a luxurious palace surrounded by tons of gold. His servants tend to his every needs.  He could move to a monastery do all the farming, cooking and laundry himself.   But he does much more good spending his time traveling the world and persuading people to live simply and preforming charity work.   I fail to see the hyprocrisy.   

[zk]

Brilliant, qcomer:

Let’s face it, both of you repubs and dems are biased, egoistic bunch and deep down the real motive behind all these stupid blogs and posts is to feed your biases and egos. You are both intolerant and cannot wait to miss an opportunity to rub others noses in any story you can find. Both of you twist facts to serve your political stances. I am sick and tired of seeing adults fighting like kids.

I wish I could’ve said it that well myself. I watched a debate in the House of Representatives on CSpan the other day, which I’d never done before. I was astonished to find that the debate there is at least as emotional, manipulative, vitriolic and lacking in reason and intelligence as the political debates on this board are. We’ve got children, and not very smart ones, running our country.

[FutureSDguy]

While I think qcomer and zk are right about the polarity of this dicussion here and in US politics, I do think if they don’t like the discussion, then they can close their web browser. Belittling others for expressing their views is worse than whatever views they might have.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

While I think FutureSDguy is right about the fact that people can close their web browser… I believe that calling out people to simply close their web browser when they want to belittle others for expressing polarizing views is worse than belittling others for expressing their views.

[PerryChase]

Purchasing carbon credits is like paying for trash pickup. Someone figured out a way to dispose of it properly.

As for carbon, someone will figure out a way to sequester it and make tons of money and benefit the environment. FutureSDguy, using your figure of $414 per home at 200 million homes in USA, that’s a market of $82.8 billion, not counting businesses and industries. That’s the size of a Fortune 100 company wouldn’t you say?

[drunkle]

Submitted by greekfire on February 28, 2007 – 11:17pm.
The point of the thread was to show general hypocrisy that occurs in politics, in this case on the left. It would be similar to hearing Mark Foley (16 year old page scandal) proselytizing about moral Christian values.

awesome. compare a confessed sex offender to.. what? a confessed nerd? great comparison.

I understand that everyone makes mistakes, but you must also lead by example if you are to get your message across. It’s like an ex-convict that speaks to school children about the consequences that come with breaking the law. It would be a different story if that same ex-convict is still dealing crack rock on the side, however.

like… gwb and his botched camping trip in iraq? oil subsidies being granted to companies posting record profits? all the while talking about conservation and renewables in his sotu?

Al Gore’s message about being environmentally aware and conserving energy is a good one, it just doesn’t carry nearly as much weight coming from him.

that’s pure prejudice. not rational behaviour.

[FutureSDguy]

“While I think FutureSDguy is right about the fact that people can close their web browser… I believe that calling out people to simply close their web browser when they want to belittle others for expressing polarizing views is worse than belittling others for expressing their views.”

While familiarity breeds contempt, anonymity breeds disrespect.

PerryChase, I think you meant to quote FormerSanDiegan.

BTW, partially with the help of this forum, I decided that San Diego simply is not competitive to Seattle in terms of affordability and my particular job market. I’ll probably be changing my alias. But in any case, thanks to all for the data.

[zk]

“While I think qcomer and zk are right about the polarity of this dicussion here and in US politics, I do think if they don’t like the discussion, then they can close their web browser. Belittling others for expressing their views is worse than whatever views they might have.”

I’m not sure why I’d close my web browser when I encounter childishness any more than a conservative would when a “liberal” disagrees with him.

What I’m saying isn’t that I don’t want to hear people express their views. I’m saying that the political debate on this board is frequently childish and unintelligent.

Look at this quote from futuresdguy as an example:

The typical liberal does NOT believe in freedom of expression (among with all kinds of other rights). They try to emotionally blackmail their opponents by raising such freedoms in public discourse (e.g. “playing a race card”, etc). But when you look under their skin (which is rather thin) you can see that it’s only so they can force their worldview or governement upon others.

Their name-calling and patronizing is a consequence of generations of being out of mainstream thought. Like little children, they have to throw tantrums to get attention.”

First of all, it’s nothing but broad, unsubstantiable, and frequently ridiculous generalizations.

More importantly, he name calls and patronizes liberals, and then attacks liberals for name calling and patronizing. Then he name calls and patronizes some more.

[drunkle]

Submitted by ucodegen on March 1, 2007 – 10:14am.
“i believe al gore does not do as he says he does, he’s a hypocrit. i believe he’s a hypocrit because he does not do as he says he does.”

circular argument, self fulfilling argument, whatever. you’re guilty of it.

Your statement fails in that I did not call him a hypocrite..

you did not say this?

“Seems pretty hypocritical to me.”

On top of that, your example is not fall under the grounds of the fallacy of a circular argument. Take a look at the example on the link I provided earlier. There is a very important difference between your statement and the example.

if you say so.

As for “Dr Unkle = drunkle”.. anybody can name themselves anything on this board. I could even name myself Al Gore, but that would not make it so.

as for spelling someone’s login name correctly, a correction was in order.

The only statement that even gets close to that is where I call his behavior as seemingly hypocritical. I did not call him a hypocrite. Since you seem too lazy to double check what you are claiming that others have said on this post.. I have conveniently given you links to mine below.
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25032
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25075
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25081
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25082
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25086
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25089
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25090
http://piggington.com/liberal_hypocrisy#comment-25088

couching your statement does not make it less egregious or insidious when there’s little to no fact. you even state that his useage of green power needs to be checked. but you still draw a conclusion based on a potentially erroneous comparison of sd vs tenn power rates.

Also it seems that you are weak in math.. I stated that Kenneth Adelman went way overboard. Gore does not have to one half.. Adelman’s production of electricity is more than 45kWh per day. Gore consumes half of that in a month. Gore would only have to match 1/60th of Kenneth Adelman.. a far less daunting proposition (probably around 47 square feet vs Adelman’s 2800 square feet of solar array).

what does math have to do with anything? you used mr solarwarrior as a basis of comparision for which i stated that using an extreme example is absurd. i have no interest in your personal “comfort level” of “greenness”. whether you would be satisfied at 1/60th or 1/100th is meaningless when you don’t accept anything that’s been done to begin with. ultimately, your argument is simply restated as “no *true* conservationist would stop at flourescent lights”.

[drunkle]

Submitted by qcomer on February 28, 2007 – 11:52pm.
I can only laugh when I look at so called educated dems/reubs wasting their time over this so called ‘news’. There is an immediate reflex action by the repubs to “intend to believe” the story without really asking for the other side of the story or Gore to explain himself. The dems on the other hand are bent on defending Gore as if he is not fallible or cannot make a mistake? More so they accuse repubs of not checking facts but assume everything contained in Gore’s response is pure truth.

Let’s face it, both of you repubs and dems are biased, egoistic bunch and deep down the real motive behind all these stupid blogs and posts is to feed your biases and egos. You are both intolerant and cannot wait to miss an opportunity to rub others noses in any story you can find. Both of you twist facts to serve your political stances. I am sick and tired of seeing adults fighting like kids.

and what are you doing, mr aloof? declaring how you’re so much better than everyone because you’re a “contientious objector”?

cynical observation made by a rep: smart people don’t vote. which is a sad truth, people are disgusted by politics and give up their voice. which is how an entire state took it upon themselves to rewrite biology and discard one of the tenents of life sciences.

ignoring politics wont make it go away. it only allows the greedy or self serving to take control of your life.

this is not news. this is not an intelligent thread. this (is) politics and slander. not standing up to morons is implicit acceptance of moronic behaviour. will they change their minds? doubtful. will you change yours? doubtful. but all the same, perceptions affect peoples’ opinions and “consensus” counts. prime example: the housing bubble.

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