Impact of Proposed high speed rail

[Jazzman]

[quote=EconProf]The fatal flaw in high speed rail (and, arguably, all forms of mass transit) is ignoring the time to get from your house or apartment to the station, and then to get from the destination station to your job (or store, etc.)…plus the parking problem at the station. Americans love to go from their own driveway to the parking lot at their destination. This is a luxury we have that the Japanese, Chinese, and europeans envy.[/quote]

They may well counter at what cost? A landscape scarred by freeways, dependence on a fast disappearing natural resource, huge distances just to buy a newspaper, costs due to the necessity of multiple vehicles per household. Don’t get me wrong, I would much rather use a car than be crushed in a metro, but on the other hand I’d much rather walk down a beautiful pedestrianized street than go out to eat in a car park. I would much rather be able to walk, or bike than have to get into a chunk of metal every time I need to go somewhere, that needs to produce enough energy to move something twenty times my own weight. The Chinese may not see this yet, but the Japanese and Europeans probably get it.

There’s pro’s and con’s on both sides, but is the question really about choice?

[Jazzman]

[quote=GH]Without adequate last mile infrastructure all of these public transport ideas are doomed to fail.

In UK where train travel used to be fantastic, it was decided to cut all of the rural money losing tracks. Officials were “surprised” to find previously money making main tracks now faced substantially reduced traffic and thus were also no longer profitable. Of course the presence of a union mandated “fire man” (looks after the coal burner) even on electric lines is laughable …[/quote]
Unions aside, I’m not sure how people are getting about if they’ve stopped using public transport. They certainly won’t be all using their cars. The M25 currently holds the title for the largest car park in the UK. The need for the London congestion charge sent the message “we have enough cars thanks”. How many lines in the UK were ever profitable? The problem is very old tracks and trains and not enough money to upgrade them. Public transport almost certainly need government subsidies to run.

[Jazzman]

[quote=GH]Without adequate last mile infrastructure all of these public transport ideas are doomed to fail.

In UK where train travel used to be fantastic, it was decided to cut all of the rural money losing tracks. Officials were “surprised” to find previously money making main tracks now faced substantially reduced traffic and thus were also no longer profitable. Of course the presence of a union mandated “fire man” (looks after the coal burner) even on electric lines is laughable …[/quote]
Unions aside, I’m not sure how people are getting about if they’ve stopped using public transport. They certainly won’t be all using their cars. The M25 currently holds the title for the largest car park in the UK. The need for the London congestion charge sent the message “we have enough cars thanks”. How many lines in the UK were ever profitable? The problem is very old tracks and trains and not enough money to upgrade them. Public transport almost certainly need government subsidies to run.

[Jazzman]

[quote=GH]Without adequate last mile infrastructure all of these public transport ideas are doomed to fail.

In UK where train travel used to be fantastic, it was decided to cut all of the rural money losing tracks. Officials were “surprised” to find previously money making main tracks now faced substantially reduced traffic and thus were also no longer profitable. Of course the presence of a union mandated “fire man” (looks after the coal burner) even on electric lines is laughable …[/quote]
Unions aside, I’m not sure how people are getting about if they’ve stopped using public transport. They certainly won’t be all using their cars. The M25 currently holds the title for the largest car park in the UK. The need for the London congestion charge sent the message “we have enough cars thanks”. How many lines in the UK were ever profitable? The problem is very old tracks and trains and not enough money to upgrade them. Public transport almost certainly need government subsidies to run.

[Jazzman]

[quote=GH]Without adequate last mile infrastructure all of these public transport ideas are doomed to fail.

In UK where train travel used to be fantastic, it was decided to cut all of the rural money losing tracks. Officials were “surprised” to find previously money making main tracks now faced substantially reduced traffic and thus were also no longer profitable. Of course the presence of a union mandated “fire man” (looks after the coal burner) even on electric lines is laughable …[/quote]
Unions aside, I’m not sure how people are getting about if they’ve stopped using public transport. They certainly won’t be all using their cars. The M25 currently holds the title for the largest car park in the UK. The need for the London congestion charge sent the message “we have enough cars thanks”. How many lines in the UK were ever profitable? The problem is very old tracks and trains and not enough money to upgrade them. Public transport almost certainly need government subsidies to run.

[Jazzman]

[quote=GH]Without adequate last mile infrastructure all of these public transport ideas are doomed to fail.

In UK where train travel used to be fantastic, it was decided to cut all of the rural money losing tracks. Officials were “surprised” to find previously money making main tracks now faced substantially reduced traffic and thus were also no longer profitable. Of course the presence of a union mandated “fire man” (looks after the coal burner) even on electric lines is laughable …[/quote]
Unions aside, I’m not sure how people are getting about if they’ve stopped using public transport. They certainly won’t be all using their cars. The M25 currently holds the title for the largest car park in the UK. The need for the London congestion charge sent the message “we have enough cars thanks”. How many lines in the UK were ever profitable? The problem is very old tracks and trains and not enough money to upgrade them. Public transport almost certainly need government subsidies to run.

[urbanrealtor]

My summary.

http://twentytwowords.com/2011/01/25/analysis-of-a-typical-facebook-debate/

[urbanrealtor]

My summary.

http://twentytwowords.com/2011/01/25/analysis-of-a-typical-facebook-debate/

[urbanrealtor]

My summary.

http://twentytwowords.com/2011/01/25/analysis-of-a-typical-facebook-debate/

[urbanrealtor]

My summary.

http://twentytwowords.com/2011/01/25/analysis-of-a-typical-facebook-debate/

[urbanrealtor]

My summary.

http://twentytwowords.com/2011/01/25/analysis-of-a-typical-facebook-debate/

[EconProf]

Back to the High Speed Rail subject….
We are now discovering the false promises under which HSR was foisted upon us. Much has been made of the propaganda fed to the voters before they (barely) approved the bond measure to start HSR some three years ago: understating the costs of building it, overstating expected ridership, understating ticket prices, to name just three.
The lies continue. Recently a consulting company was hired by the HSR authority to predict ridership (and thus revenues) once the whole project is complete. Naturally, they had to come up with a number that would justify the project financially.
They projected an annual ridership for CA that was three times what Amtrak currently gets in the entire U.S.–in 46 states!
They came up with this number by asking the public whether they would ride HSR. 90% of those asked said they would take the HSR. Who did they ask? Current users of trains in CA. Such a subset of CA citizenry is 5% of the population.
This is our government at work. This is our tax money funding such a shoddy study to convince us to spend more. This is also our CA media failing to blow the whistle on such dishonesty.
BTW, this info all from whistle-blower and libertarian commentator Chris Reed of the Union-Tribune, who does a great radio show on KOGO, 600 am, 6:00 to 8:00 pm daily except Wednesdays. I highly recommend him.

[EconProf]

Back to the High Speed Rail subject….
We are now discovering the false promises under which HSR was foisted upon us. Much has been made of the propaganda fed to the voters before they (barely) approved the bond measure to start HSR some three years ago: understating the costs of building it, overstating expected ridership, understating ticket prices, to name just three.
The lies continue. Recently a consulting company was hired by the HSR authority to predict ridership (and thus revenues) once the whole project is complete. Naturally, they had to come up with a number that would justify the project financially.
They projected an annual ridership for CA that was three times what Amtrak currently gets in the entire U.S.–in 46 states!
They came up with this number by asking the public whether they would ride HSR. 90% of those asked said they would take the HSR. Who did they ask? Current users of trains in CA. Such a subset of CA citizenry is 5% of the population.
This is our government at work. This is our tax money funding such a shoddy study to convince us to spend more. This is also our CA media failing to blow the whistle on such dishonesty.
BTW, this info all from whistle-blower and libertarian commentator Chris Reed of the Union-Tribune, who does a great radio show on KOGO, 600 am, 6:00 to 8:00 pm daily except Wednesdays. I highly recommend him.

[EconProf]

Back to the High Speed Rail subject….
We are now discovering the false promises under which HSR was foisted upon us. Much has been made of the propaganda fed to the voters before they (barely) approved the bond measure to start HSR some three years ago: understating the costs of building it, overstating expected ridership, understating ticket prices, to name just three.
The lies continue. Recently a consulting company was hired by the HSR authority to predict ridership (and thus revenues) once the whole project is complete. Naturally, they had to come up with a number that would justify the project financially.
They projected an annual ridership for CA that was three times what Amtrak currently gets in the entire U.S.–in 46 states!
They came up with this number by asking the public whether they would ride HSR. 90% of those asked said they would take the HSR. Who did they ask? Current users of trains in CA. Such a subset of CA citizenry is 5% of the population.
This is our government at work. This is our tax money funding such a shoddy study to convince us to spend more. This is also our CA media failing to blow the whistle on such dishonesty.
BTW, this info all from whistle-blower and libertarian commentator Chris Reed of the Union-Tribune, who does a great radio show on KOGO, 600 am, 6:00 to 8:00 pm daily except Wednesdays. I highly recommend him.

[EconProf]

Back to the High Speed Rail subject….
We are now discovering the false promises under which HSR was foisted upon us. Much has been made of the propaganda fed to the voters before they (barely) approved the bond measure to start HSR some three years ago: understating the costs of building it, overstating expected ridership, understating ticket prices, to name just three.
The lies continue. Recently a consulting company was hired by the HSR authority to predict ridership (and thus revenues) once the whole project is complete. Naturally, they had to come up with a number that would justify the project financially.
They projected an annual ridership for CA that was three times what Amtrak currently gets in the entire U.S.–in 46 states!
They came up with this number by asking the public whether they would ride HSR. 90% of those asked said they would take the HSR. Who did they ask? Current users of trains in CA. Such a subset of CA citizenry is 5% of the population.
This is our government at work. This is our tax money funding such a shoddy study to convince us to spend more. This is also our CA media failing to blow the whistle on such dishonesty.
BTW, this info all from whistle-blower and libertarian commentator Chris Reed of the Union-Tribune, who does a great radio show on KOGO, 600 am, 6:00 to 8:00 pm daily except Wednesdays. I highly recommend him.

[Author]

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