If you get mad easily about Big Government wasting stimulus money…don’t read this…

[Coronita]

I don’t know. I just think that the effectiveness of these spendings in actually putting money back into folks that are seeking work isn’t really effective…And yet, we go on extending unemployment benefits…I would have thought a better use would have been putting this money into education/retraining folks with skills out of date…Maybe a part educational subsidy + part 0% loan for such folks that they could repay when/if they find new work….Or incentives for companies to hire here versus overseas….

Meanwhile….Dollars earmarked for education is now being turned away to closing budget shortfalls…Yup, we’ve definitely have sold our future generation down the street…in more than one ways……

And, no this isn’t a political rant on one party or the other…If it were the other party in office, different party, different pork…..We really need to toss out both parties, imho….Or at least neutralize both so they can’t do any more damage.

I love the previous talks from some of the other posters about how we’re still the best, we still have the best and most educated in the entire world….I don’t know, I think my the time my toddler grows up, her quality of life is otherwise going to be pretty bad if she has to make it on her own…..High taxes, limited economic growth, worsening education, increased international competition for resources…

Funny thing is that this is one of the things that happened wrto the CA lottery…It was partly suppose to help fund our state education…except once they started to put some small amount from the lottery into schools, CA took a hell of a lot more money out of the schools elsewhere….It always amazes me that when or governments want to cut, they always cut in areas of education, versus defense spending or pensions, etc…..

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/20/news/economy/teacher_jobs_fund/index.htm?hpt=T2

Lawmakers gave cash-strapped states $10 billion last month to save 145,000 teachers’ jobs. The funds were meant to reduce classroom crowding and restore programs lost to state budget cuts.

But some governors have other ideas for the money, namely using the funds to close their budget shortfalls. Several are planning to reduce state aid to school districts by the amount they receive from the feds. Others are looking to use the money for school construction and improvements.

And if state tax revenues fall short later this year, even more governors will likely slash state aid, figuring schools have the federal funds as a cushion.

The shift has left educators worried they’ll never see the extra money they need to retain teachers and other personnel.

“They are not doing the right thing for students,” said Dennis Van Roekel, president of the National Education Association, which has 3.4 million members. “We know what the intent was. [Governors] should use it in this fashion and not to balance their budgets.”

Governors, however, feel differently. In Rhode Island, Gov. Donald Carcieri wants to claw back $32.9 million in state aid to school districts to help the state close a $320 million deficit for the coming fiscal year.

Part of the pinch comes from the fact that the Ocean State is receiving only $70 million in federal Medicaid assistance, instead of the $107 million it had budgeted. That makes the education money all the more attractive.

“We can use these funds elsewhere in the budget,” said Amy Kempe, the governor’s spokeswoman.
What teachers spend on their students

Rhode Island educators, however, were hoping to use the funds to hire back or replace the roughly 450 teachers who were laid off or retired. The additional personnel would allow the school districts to offer a greater choice of languages, more gifted and talented programs, additional reading and math instruction and full-day kindergarten, they said.

“In tough times, every penny helps and these are a lot of pennies,” said Robert Walsh Jr., director of the state chapter of the National Education Association.

South Dakota Gov. Mike Rounds is planning a similar move. He intends to reduce state aid by the $26.3 million that districts will receive from the federal government and spend it on other state needs.

In the Mount Rushmore State, which hasn’t had many teacher layoffs, the plan is also tinged with political perspective. Rounds doesn’t want schools to get used to the extra funds since they won’t be available next year, said his spokesman, Joe Kafka.

Legally, governors can reduce state aid as long as certain criteria are met. They are not allowed the add to the state’s rainy day accounts, nor can they let their state education funding fall below a certain level. But federal officials are encouraging states to support their schools.

“We’re urging them to keep the money for education spending, but there is some flexibility in the law,” a federal Department of Education spokeswoman said.

Some state educators, however, don’t mind that their governors want flexibility as long as the money stays in the school system.

In Arkansas, for instance, Gov. Mike Beebe sees the $91 million federal grant as an opportunity for school districts to use state money for school construction and improvement. The state has few teachers on the unemployment line.

“The more flexibility the local districts can have, the better they’ll be,” said Richard Abernathy, executive director of the Arkansas Association of Educational Administrators.
0:00 /1:56New teachers see fewer openings

Three states — South Carolina, Texas and Wyoming — are still waiting to get their federal funds.

South Carolina did not apply for its $143 million share after learning that it did not qualify because it had cut funding for higher education too deeply. Gov. Mark Sanford, a Republican, lashed out at the Obama administration, saying he did not want to cut money for law enforcement and health care just to funnel it to higher education.

Texas, meanwhile, had its application rejected because it did not meet a special provision in the law that applies only to the Lone Star State, which requires the governor to promise not to cut state aid for three years. Gov. Rick Perry said state law prevents him from making such an assurance. Texas was slated to receive $830 million.

Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Texas., inserted the provision because he was concerned that Perry would slash state aid to schools, which Perry did when he received education stimulus funds last year, according to the lawmaker.

“The obligation that this amendment places on Texas is to spend new education dollars on education purposes,” Doggett said.

And Wyoming chose not to apply for its $17.5 million in funds because it has not had any mass layoffs of teachers. The state asked federal Department of Education if it could use the money to build schools and was told it could not.

The state can still request the funds, education officials said

[Coronita]

[quote=patb]Flu

a stop light costs 250K

i am not surprised the turn indicators cost this much.[/quote]

Yeah, but why? Job generation is minute..The point of these economic stimulus package was to create jobs, not necessarily so we can have cooler traffic lights. Expenditures on such programs should have come from whatever “new energy policies” from our fed (what are they BTW?)…

Spending economic stimulas on $250k on equipment and XXXX governmantal bureaucratic red tape versus a tenth of it on actual labor isn’t doing didly to relieve the almost 15-16%+ unemployment now in L.A. County…And if folks don’t give care about the them unemployment numbers…Just remember, we’re already paying for this too…The unemployment insurance was extended….

Yeah, more efficient energy traffic light technology is a nice idea. But heck if the state cannot afford to pay for this (which it can’t),

My beef with these stimulus dollars are being spent for things that aren’t creating jobs…That’s a problem, because with more folks unemployed, they government is going to come back and ask (well, they won’t ask, they’ll just do it ) and spend more on another “economic stimulus…”…….

[Coronita]

[quote=patb]Flu

a stop light costs 250K

i am not surprised the turn indicators cost this much.[/quote]

Yeah, but why? Job generation is minute..The point of these economic stimulus package was to create jobs, not necessarily so we can have cooler traffic lights. Expenditures on such programs should have come from whatever “new energy policies” from our fed (what are they BTW?)…

Spending economic stimulas on $250k on equipment and XXXX governmantal bureaucratic red tape versus a tenth of it on actual labor isn’t doing didly to relieve the almost 15-16%+ unemployment now in L.A. County…And if folks don’t give care about the them unemployment numbers…Just remember, we’re already paying for this too…The unemployment insurance was extended….

Yeah, more efficient energy traffic light technology is a nice idea. But heck if the state cannot afford to pay for this (which it can’t),

My beef with these stimulus dollars are being spent for things that aren’t creating jobs…That’s a problem, because with more folks unemployed, they government is going to come back and ask (well, they won’t ask, they’ll just do it ) and spend more on another “economic stimulus…”…….

[Coronita]

[quote=patb]Flu

a stop light costs 250K

i am not surprised the turn indicators cost this much.[/quote]

Yeah, but why? Job generation is minute..The point of these economic stimulus package was to create jobs, not necessarily so we can have cooler traffic lights. Expenditures on such programs should have come from whatever “new energy policies” from our fed (what are they BTW?)…

Spending economic stimulas on $250k on equipment and XXXX governmantal bureaucratic red tape versus a tenth of it on actual labor isn’t doing didly to relieve the almost 15-16%+ unemployment now in L.A. County…And if folks don’t give care about the them unemployment numbers…Just remember, we’re already paying for this too…The unemployment insurance was extended….

Yeah, more efficient energy traffic light technology is a nice idea. But heck if the state cannot afford to pay for this (which it can’t),

My beef with these stimulus dollars are being spent for things that aren’t creating jobs…That’s a problem, because with more folks unemployed, they government is going to come back and ask (well, they won’t ask, they’ll just do it ) and spend more on another “economic stimulus…”…….

[Coronita]

[quote=patb]Flu

a stop light costs 250K

i am not surprised the turn indicators cost this much.[/quote]

Yeah, but why? Job generation is minute..The point of these economic stimulus package was to create jobs, not necessarily so we can have cooler traffic lights. Expenditures on such programs should have come from whatever “new energy policies” from our fed (what are they BTW?)…

Spending economic stimulas on $250k on equipment and XXXX governmantal bureaucratic red tape versus a tenth of it on actual labor isn’t doing didly to relieve the almost 15-16%+ unemployment now in L.A. County…And if folks don’t give care about the them unemployment numbers…Just remember, we’re already paying for this too…The unemployment insurance was extended….

Yeah, more efficient energy traffic light technology is a nice idea. But heck if the state cannot afford to pay for this (which it can’t),

My beef with these stimulus dollars are being spent for things that aren’t creating jobs…That’s a problem, because with more folks unemployed, they government is going to come back and ask (well, they won’t ask, they’ll just do it ) and spend more on another “economic stimulus…”…….

[Coronita]

[quote=patb]Flu

a stop light costs 250K

i am not surprised the turn indicators cost this much.[/quote]

Yeah, but why? Job generation is minute..The point of these economic stimulus package was to create jobs, not necessarily so we can have cooler traffic lights. Expenditures on such programs should have come from whatever “new energy policies” from our fed (what are they BTW?)…

Spending economic stimulas on $250k on equipment and XXXX governmantal bureaucratic red tape versus a tenth of it on actual labor isn’t doing didly to relieve the almost 15-16%+ unemployment now in L.A. County…And if folks don’t give care about the them unemployment numbers…Just remember, we’re already paying for this too…The unemployment insurance was extended….

Yeah, more efficient energy traffic light technology is a nice idea. But heck if the state cannot afford to pay for this (which it can’t),

My beef with these stimulus dollars are being spent for things that aren’t creating jobs…That’s a problem, because with more folks unemployed, they government is going to come back and ask (well, they won’t ask, they’ll just do it ) and spend more on another “economic stimulus…”…….

[Coronita]

[quote=Hatfield]I’m pretty sure all the LEDs are made in China too. It’s a shame – I think LED lighting systems are probably going to be the wave of the future. Since the manufacturing process is so highly automated, labor cost is not much a factor. We should be building them here, and we should be investing in better lighting technology and keeping that technology here.

As for traffic lights, have you noticed that green LEDs seem to have a much higher mortality rate than the red ones? Notice how many green LED go lights are all funky with half the elements burned out, yet you never see that with red ones.[/quote]

Actually, the jury is out on whether LED’s are really more cost effective. It’s considerably more expensive to manufacture than normal bulbs, and although in the lab they are suppose to have a much longer life expectancy, in real environment tests, their light output degrades considerably faster, dependent on operating temperatures (hence why lab numbers look much better…controlled environment…STill long life, but not the numbers folks think).

Just like the compact fluorescents don’t nearly last as long as they are touted. Often touted as being able to last 3-4 years, CFL’s usually stop working much sooner since cheap circuits (made overseas) in them usually blow out much earlier than that…Not to mention that CFL aren’t exactly environmentally friendly. They aren’t exactly produced in an environmentally friendly way either…which is probably why companies need to have them made overseas where they are lax on environmental restrictions. But hey, as long as it’s not creating environmental issues here domestically..people thing they area good thing…. out of sight, out of mind…

[Coronita]

[quote=Hatfield]I’m pretty sure all the LEDs are made in China too. It’s a shame – I think LED lighting systems are probably going to be the wave of the future. Since the manufacturing process is so highly automated, labor cost is not much a factor. We should be building them here, and we should be investing in better lighting technology and keeping that technology here.

As for traffic lights, have you noticed that green LEDs seem to have a much higher mortality rate than the red ones? Notice how many green LED go lights are all funky with half the elements burned out, yet you never see that with red ones.[/quote]

Actually, the jury is out on whether LED’s are really more cost effective. It’s considerably more expensive to manufacture than normal bulbs, and although in the lab they are suppose to have a much longer life expectancy, in real environment tests, their light output degrades considerably faster, dependent on operating temperatures (hence why lab numbers look much better…controlled environment…STill long life, but not the numbers folks think).

Just like the compact fluorescents don’t nearly last as long as they are touted. Often touted as being able to last 3-4 years, CFL’s usually stop working much sooner since cheap circuits (made overseas) in them usually blow out much earlier than that…Not to mention that CFL aren’t exactly environmentally friendly. They aren’t exactly produced in an environmentally friendly way either…which is probably why companies need to have them made overseas where they are lax on environmental restrictions. But hey, as long as it’s not creating environmental issues here domestically..people thing they area good thing…. out of sight, out of mind…

[Coronita]

[quote=Hatfield]I’m pretty sure all the LEDs are made in China too. It’s a shame – I think LED lighting systems are probably going to be the wave of the future. Since the manufacturing process is so highly automated, labor cost is not much a factor. We should be building them here, and we should be investing in better lighting technology and keeping that technology here.

As for traffic lights, have you noticed that green LEDs seem to have a much higher mortality rate than the red ones? Notice how many green LED go lights are all funky with half the elements burned out, yet you never see that with red ones.[/quote]

Actually, the jury is out on whether LED’s are really more cost effective. It’s considerably more expensive to manufacture than normal bulbs, and although in the lab they are suppose to have a much longer life expectancy, in real environment tests, their light output degrades considerably faster, dependent on operating temperatures (hence why lab numbers look much better…controlled environment…STill long life, but not the numbers folks think).

Just like the compact fluorescents don’t nearly last as long as they are touted. Often touted as being able to last 3-4 years, CFL’s usually stop working much sooner since cheap circuits (made overseas) in them usually blow out much earlier than that…Not to mention that CFL aren’t exactly environmentally friendly. They aren’t exactly produced in an environmentally friendly way either…which is probably why companies need to have them made overseas where they are lax on environmental restrictions. But hey, as long as it’s not creating environmental issues here domestically..people thing they area good thing…. out of sight, out of mind…

[Coronita]

[quote=Hatfield]I’m pretty sure all the LEDs are made in China too. It’s a shame – I think LED lighting systems are probably going to be the wave of the future. Since the manufacturing process is so highly automated, labor cost is not much a factor. We should be building them here, and we should be investing in better lighting technology and keeping that technology here.

As for traffic lights, have you noticed that green LEDs seem to have a much higher mortality rate than the red ones? Notice how many green LED go lights are all funky with half the elements burned out, yet you never see that with red ones.[/quote]

Actually, the jury is out on whether LED’s are really more cost effective. It’s considerably more expensive to manufacture than normal bulbs, and although in the lab they are suppose to have a much longer life expectancy, in real environment tests, their light output degrades considerably faster, dependent on operating temperatures (hence why lab numbers look much better…controlled environment…STill long life, but not the numbers folks think).

Just like the compact fluorescents don’t nearly last as long as they are touted. Often touted as being able to last 3-4 years, CFL’s usually stop working much sooner since cheap circuits (made overseas) in them usually blow out much earlier than that…Not to mention that CFL aren’t exactly environmentally friendly. They aren’t exactly produced in an environmentally friendly way either…which is probably why companies need to have them made overseas where they are lax on environmental restrictions. But hey, as long as it’s not creating environmental issues here domestically..people thing they area good thing…. out of sight, out of mind…

[Coronita]

[quote=Hatfield]I’m pretty sure all the LEDs are made in China too. It’s a shame – I think LED lighting systems are probably going to be the wave of the future. Since the manufacturing process is so highly automated, labor cost is not much a factor. We should be building them here, and we should be investing in better lighting technology and keeping that technology here.

As for traffic lights, have you noticed that green LEDs seem to have a much higher mortality rate than the red ones? Notice how many green LED go lights are all funky with half the elements burned out, yet you never see that with red ones.[/quote]

Actually, the jury is out on whether LED’s are really more cost effective. It’s considerably more expensive to manufacture than normal bulbs, and although in the lab they are suppose to have a much longer life expectancy, in real environment tests, their light output degrades considerably faster, dependent on operating temperatures (hence why lab numbers look much better…controlled environment…STill long life, but not the numbers folks think).

Just like the compact fluorescents don’t nearly last as long as they are touted. Often touted as being able to last 3-4 years, CFL’s usually stop working much sooner since cheap circuits (made overseas) in them usually blow out much earlier than that…Not to mention that CFL aren’t exactly environmentally friendly. They aren’t exactly produced in an environmentally friendly way either…which is probably why companies need to have them made overseas where they are lax on environmental restrictions. But hey, as long as it’s not creating environmental issues here domestically..people thing they area good thing…. out of sight, out of mind…

[Coronita]

[quote=gandalf]Eugene’s mostly right.

Overall, I’d prefer to see the money spent on energy-related projects, but our transportation networks are in need of rebuilding as well.

It’s one thing to be critical of how the stimulus money is being spent, productivity, job creation, etc.

It’s entirely another to pass it off as some jackass republican talking point.[/quote]

Gandalf, I think you’re assuming this is a republican versus democrat thing…I think you probably assumed this would be because one of the links were from fox news. That’s why I posted the other link that had the article from AP…And you can verify the same audit found the same thing on other sources…Why don’t you open your eyes to all the bullshit that’s going on irrespective of who’s in office?

[Coronita]

[quote=gandalf]Eugene’s mostly right.

Overall, I’d prefer to see the money spent on energy-related projects, but our transportation networks are in need of rebuilding as well.

It’s one thing to be critical of how the stimulus money is being spent, productivity, job creation, etc.

It’s entirely another to pass it off as some jackass republican talking point.[/quote]

Gandalf, I think you’re assuming this is a republican versus democrat thing…I think you probably assumed this would be because one of the links were from fox news. That’s why I posted the other link that had the article from AP…And you can verify the same audit found the same thing on other sources…Why don’t you open your eyes to all the bullshit that’s going on irrespective of who’s in office?

[Coronita]

[quote=gandalf]Eugene’s mostly right.

Overall, I’d prefer to see the money spent on energy-related projects, but our transportation networks are in need of rebuilding as well.

It’s one thing to be critical of how the stimulus money is being spent, productivity, job creation, etc.

It’s entirely another to pass it off as some jackass republican talking point.[/quote]

Gandalf, I think you’re assuming this is a republican versus democrat thing…I think you probably assumed this would be because one of the links were from fox news. That’s why I posted the other link that had the article from AP…And you can verify the same audit found the same thing on other sources…Why don’t you open your eyes to all the bullshit that’s going on irrespective of who’s in office?

[Coronita]

[quote=gandalf]Eugene’s mostly right.

Overall, I’d prefer to see the money spent on energy-related projects, but our transportation networks are in need of rebuilding as well.

It’s one thing to be critical of how the stimulus money is being spent, productivity, job creation, etc.

It’s entirely another to pass it off as some jackass republican talking point.[/quote]

Gandalf, I think you’re assuming this is a republican versus democrat thing…I think you probably assumed this would be because one of the links were from fox news. That’s why I posted the other link that had the article from AP…And you can verify the same audit found the same thing on other sources…Why don’t you open your eyes to all the bullshit that’s going on irrespective of who’s in office?

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