HS teacher-$70K for 9 months of work

[CA renter]

[quote=kev374][quote=SD Realtor]I would say anybody that has to spend 6 hours a day with alot of children is earning money. To me being a teacher working those hours 9 months a year is A HELL of alot harder then being an engineer and writing code all day.[/quote]

I disagree. The amount of knowledge, creative thinking and deadline pressures you have to deal with on some of these Engineering projects is far greater than any high school teacher will experience I can tell you that.

How much knowledge do you need to put kids in line? How much knowledge and experience do you think one needs to fix a mission critical multi million dollar system that breaks down in the middle of the night and needs to be resolved before the start of business next morning?

Comparing the two is just ridiculous![/quote]

Kev374,

What makes you think that someone with an engineering degree is better educated than a HS math teacher?

Credentialled teachers have to have a B.A. or B.S. PLUS at least two years of post-graduate education, if not a master’s degree.

Knowledge, creative thinking and deadline pressures…if you think teachers don’t have to deal with these things, I’ll go out on a limb and guess you’ve never taught a single day in a public school classroom. You have no idea how much stress teachers have to deal with.

I’ve worked in the public sector as a teacher, and in the private sector in management/trouble-shooting working 80-100 hours/week in the manufacturing/tech industry. Teaching was the most stressful job I’ve ever had, by far.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
I don’t have kids but have worked as a tutor on a indian reservation (read combat duty) and while I agree with what you say SD about pay I don’t think to say that teachers have the same training as us engineers. That simply isn’t true or even close!

But to have to deal with kids… Man that is so much more difficult (in a different way) to deal with.

I just take objection to the training…

Still love ya though! 😛

CE[/quote]

So the 3 years of teacher training in addition to a bachelors is weak?

Also, very few teachers work 6 hours a day or 9 months a year.

Generally that only applies to very unmotivated elementary school teachers or those on a part time schedule.[/quote]

Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
I don’t have kids but have worked as a tutor on a indian reservation (read combat duty) and while I agree with what you say SD about pay I don’t think to say that teachers have the same training as us engineers. That simply isn’t true or even close!

But to have to deal with kids… Man that is so much more difficult (in a different way) to deal with.

I just take objection to the training…

Still love ya though! 😛

CE[/quote]

So the 3 years of teacher training in addition to a bachelors is weak?

Also, very few teachers work 6 hours a day or 9 months a year.

Generally that only applies to very unmotivated elementary school teachers or those on a part time schedule.[/quote]

Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
I don’t have kids but have worked as a tutor on a indian reservation (read combat duty) and while I agree with what you say SD about pay I don’t think to say that teachers have the same training as us engineers. That simply isn’t true or even close!

But to have to deal with kids… Man that is so much more difficult (in a different way) to deal with.

I just take objection to the training…

Still love ya though! 😛

CE[/quote]

So the 3 years of teacher training in addition to a bachelors is weak?

Also, very few teachers work 6 hours a day or 9 months a year.

Generally that only applies to very unmotivated elementary school teachers or those on a part time schedule.[/quote]

Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
I don’t have kids but have worked as a tutor on a indian reservation (read combat duty) and while I agree with what you say SD about pay I don’t think to say that teachers have the same training as us engineers. That simply isn’t true or even close!

But to have to deal with kids… Man that is so much more difficult (in a different way) to deal with.

I just take objection to the training…

Still love ya though! 😛

CE[/quote]

So the 3 years of teacher training in addition to a bachelors is weak?

Also, very few teachers work 6 hours a day or 9 months a year.

Generally that only applies to very unmotivated elementary school teachers or those on a part time schedule.[/quote]

Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CDMA ENG]
I don’t have kids but have worked as a tutor on a indian reservation (read combat duty) and while I agree with what you say SD about pay I don’t think to say that teachers have the same training as us engineers. That simply isn’t true or even close!

But to have to deal with kids… Man that is so much more difficult (in a different way) to deal with.

I just take objection to the training…

Still love ya though! 😛

CE[/quote]

So the 3 years of teacher training in addition to a bachelors is weak?

Also, very few teachers work 6 hours a day or 9 months a year.

Generally that only applies to very unmotivated elementary school teachers or those on a part time schedule.[/quote]

Sorry man… But only 50 percent of all people that enter an engineering program make it out… I dare say the drop out ratio for teaching isn’t the same and if it is its due to lack of commitment and not subject matter.

You cant sit there and tell me one is just as difficult academically (which I probably just misspelled) as the other. Plus… Many engineers study there subject matter constantly… They are in “training” everyday… I read and re-read all the time. I don’t have to have formalized training the training comes from working with very unique problems everyday.

I have a lot of respect for teachers but you still can’t say its the same difficulty academically.

Also I dont know if you were referring to me but I did not say that teachers work 6 hours a day. I stated that the ones I knew worked 40 plus.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=SD Realtor]Yes of course it can be argued that not all teachers deserve x dollars. Very true and a “fair way” to determine compensation will be good. I am just not of the opinion about this “training stuff”.

Yes you get paid well as an engineer because why? Because you are trained well? Because you got a BS or MSEE and can write code? Okay that does make sense. However you get paid well because it is MARKET DRIVEN. That lost artifact called a free market. You can take your same training and your MARKET value in India would be less but you would be doing the same thing?

I have been in many outsourced projects, travelled across teams and worked with them. In most cases the quality of engineer is not less. It is the logistical problem, management problems, lack of contact with the systems guys that always hurts overseas teams.

Again, the training card just doesnt cut it for me. I do see value in advanced training, yes I do. However the most successful people I have met, (in terms of money they make) is more because of thier ambition, drive, and will to risk. Not because they took the safe job earning 90k or 120k or whatever the “trained” to do. My wifes best friends brother sells frigging hot dogs at all the state fairs, works about 5-6 months a year and makes way more then us engineers.

Sorry to get off topic. I don’t know, I just think that yes in alot of cases teachers do alot of work that goes under the radar. Teachers will influence my kids and spend alot of time with them. There are good teachers and bad teachers and there are good and bad engineers. I am not trying to bang on engineers. I am one. I just think that it can be argued teachers are just as important albeit may not have received a BSEE.[/quote]

So true about market driven… Best case in point… Nurses. 2 Years and they come out making more than some PhDs…

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=SD Realtor]Yes of course it can be argued that not all teachers deserve x dollars. Very true and a “fair way” to determine compensation will be good. I am just not of the opinion about this “training stuff”.

Yes you get paid well as an engineer because why? Because you are trained well? Because you got a BS or MSEE and can write code? Okay that does make sense. However you get paid well because it is MARKET DRIVEN. That lost artifact called a free market. You can take your same training and your MARKET value in India would be less but you would be doing the same thing?

I have been in many outsourced projects, travelled across teams and worked with them. In most cases the quality of engineer is not less. It is the logistical problem, management problems, lack of contact with the systems guys that always hurts overseas teams.

Again, the training card just doesnt cut it for me. I do see value in advanced training, yes I do. However the most successful people I have met, (in terms of money they make) is more because of thier ambition, drive, and will to risk. Not because they took the safe job earning 90k or 120k or whatever the “trained” to do. My wifes best friends brother sells frigging hot dogs at all the state fairs, works about 5-6 months a year and makes way more then us engineers.

Sorry to get off topic. I don’t know, I just think that yes in alot of cases teachers do alot of work that goes under the radar. Teachers will influence my kids and spend alot of time with them. There are good teachers and bad teachers and there are good and bad engineers. I am not trying to bang on engineers. I am one. I just think that it can be argued teachers are just as important albeit may not have received a BSEE.[/quote]

So true about market driven… Best case in point… Nurses. 2 Years and they come out making more than some PhDs…

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=SD Realtor]Yes of course it can be argued that not all teachers deserve x dollars. Very true and a “fair way” to determine compensation will be good. I am just not of the opinion about this “training stuff”.

Yes you get paid well as an engineer because why? Because you are trained well? Because you got a BS or MSEE and can write code? Okay that does make sense. However you get paid well because it is MARKET DRIVEN. That lost artifact called a free market. You can take your same training and your MARKET value in India would be less but you would be doing the same thing?

I have been in many outsourced projects, travelled across teams and worked with them. In most cases the quality of engineer is not less. It is the logistical problem, management problems, lack of contact with the systems guys that always hurts overseas teams.

Again, the training card just doesnt cut it for me. I do see value in advanced training, yes I do. However the most successful people I have met, (in terms of money they make) is more because of thier ambition, drive, and will to risk. Not because they took the safe job earning 90k or 120k or whatever the “trained” to do. My wifes best friends brother sells frigging hot dogs at all the state fairs, works about 5-6 months a year and makes way more then us engineers.

Sorry to get off topic. I don’t know, I just think that yes in alot of cases teachers do alot of work that goes under the radar. Teachers will influence my kids and spend alot of time with them. There are good teachers and bad teachers and there are good and bad engineers. I am not trying to bang on engineers. I am one. I just think that it can be argued teachers are just as important albeit may not have received a BSEE.[/quote]

So true about market driven… Best case in point… Nurses. 2 Years and they come out making more than some PhDs…

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=SD Realtor]Yes of course it can be argued that not all teachers deserve x dollars. Very true and a “fair way” to determine compensation will be good. I am just not of the opinion about this “training stuff”.

Yes you get paid well as an engineer because why? Because you are trained well? Because you got a BS or MSEE and can write code? Okay that does make sense. However you get paid well because it is MARKET DRIVEN. That lost artifact called a free market. You can take your same training and your MARKET value in India would be less but you would be doing the same thing?

I have been in many outsourced projects, travelled across teams and worked with them. In most cases the quality of engineer is not less. It is the logistical problem, management problems, lack of contact with the systems guys that always hurts overseas teams.

Again, the training card just doesnt cut it for me. I do see value in advanced training, yes I do. However the most successful people I have met, (in terms of money they make) is more because of thier ambition, drive, and will to risk. Not because they took the safe job earning 90k or 120k or whatever the “trained” to do. My wifes best friends brother sells frigging hot dogs at all the state fairs, works about 5-6 months a year and makes way more then us engineers.

Sorry to get off topic. I don’t know, I just think that yes in alot of cases teachers do alot of work that goes under the radar. Teachers will influence my kids and spend alot of time with them. There are good teachers and bad teachers and there are good and bad engineers. I am not trying to bang on engineers. I am one. I just think that it can be argued teachers are just as important albeit may not have received a BSEE.[/quote]

So true about market driven… Best case in point… Nurses. 2 Years and they come out making more than some PhDs…

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=SD Realtor]Yes of course it can be argued that not all teachers deserve x dollars. Very true and a “fair way” to determine compensation will be good. I am just not of the opinion about this “training stuff”.

Yes you get paid well as an engineer because why? Because you are trained well? Because you got a BS or MSEE and can write code? Okay that does make sense. However you get paid well because it is MARKET DRIVEN. That lost artifact called a free market. You can take your same training and your MARKET value in India would be less but you would be doing the same thing?

I have been in many outsourced projects, travelled across teams and worked with them. In most cases the quality of engineer is not less. It is the logistical problem, management problems, lack of contact with the systems guys that always hurts overseas teams.

Again, the training card just doesnt cut it for me. I do see value in advanced training, yes I do. However the most successful people I have met, (in terms of money they make) is more because of thier ambition, drive, and will to risk. Not because they took the safe job earning 90k or 120k or whatever the “trained” to do. My wifes best friends brother sells frigging hot dogs at all the state fairs, works about 5-6 months a year and makes way more then us engineers.

Sorry to get off topic. I don’t know, I just think that yes in alot of cases teachers do alot of work that goes under the radar. Teachers will influence my kids and spend alot of time with them. There are good teachers and bad teachers and there are good and bad engineers. I am not trying to bang on engineers. I am one. I just think that it can be argued teachers are just as important albeit may not have received a BSEE.[/quote]

So true about market driven… Best case in point… Nurses. 2 Years and they come out making more than some PhDs…

[Eugene]

[quote=kev374]
Considering Software Engineers with 10 years experience are being offered $70k salaries these days I think paying that to a high school teachers is ludicrous, it should be more like $30k considering it is only for 9 months of work.[/quote]

70k for a software engineer with 10 years of experience is well below average. Should be closer to 90-100.

70k for a teacher on a 9-month schedule is only possible if he/she has a master’s degree and 10-15 years of experience. A teacher with only a bachelor and 5 years would make closer to 45k.

It is always possible to find some outliers.

[Eugene]

[quote=kev374]
Considering Software Engineers with 10 years experience are being offered $70k salaries these days I think paying that to a high school teachers is ludicrous, it should be more like $30k considering it is only for 9 months of work.[/quote]

70k for a software engineer with 10 years of experience is well below average. Should be closer to 90-100.

70k for a teacher on a 9-month schedule is only possible if he/she has a master’s degree and 10-15 years of experience. A teacher with only a bachelor and 5 years would make closer to 45k.

It is always possible to find some outliers.

[Eugene]

[quote=kev374]
Considering Software Engineers with 10 years experience are being offered $70k salaries these days I think paying that to a high school teachers is ludicrous, it should be more like $30k considering it is only for 9 months of work.[/quote]

70k for a software engineer with 10 years of experience is well below average. Should be closer to 90-100.

70k for a teacher on a 9-month schedule is only possible if he/she has a master’s degree and 10-15 years of experience. A teacher with only a bachelor and 5 years would make closer to 45k.

It is always possible to find some outliers.

[Eugene]

[quote=kev374]
Considering Software Engineers with 10 years experience are being offered $70k salaries these days I think paying that to a high school teachers is ludicrous, it should be more like $30k considering it is only for 9 months of work.[/quote]

70k for a software engineer with 10 years of experience is well below average. Should be closer to 90-100.

70k for a teacher on a 9-month schedule is only possible if he/she has a master’s degree and 10-15 years of experience. A teacher with only a bachelor and 5 years would make closer to 45k.

It is always possible to find some outliers.

[Author]

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