Honduras

[CardiffBaseball]

I know Allen has opined in the past regarding Central American foreign policy issues…. anyone please add as you see fit.

I am not as wise in the ways of international constitutional crisis, but why are we taking the side of Chavez in this matter?

My cursory reading of the matter is that the Honduran Supreme Court was acting within the constitution when they ordered the military to remove Zelaya from office. That he was seen as attempting to circumvent the constitution to allow him to remain in office past the alloted four-year term. That is there are provisions for amending the constitution but that he was subverting these methods in attempt to become a dictator. This doesn’t sound like a coup to me. Well I haven’t checked dates perhaps he still has some time left in office?

Is that scenario basically correct? Is there more to it, something I am missing? I am struggling as to why Hillary and Obama are lashing out at the elected Honduran govt. My wife was born and raised there for 17 years, and at one time (maybe still?) had dual-citizenship.

[AK]

I spent a total of about six months in Honduras, but had relatively little contact with civilians. I left with the impression of a desperately poor yet fiercely proud country that chafed at living in the cultural and economic shadows of both the United States and Mexico. The alliance with the United States seemed like one of temporary convenience and the Hondurans reminded us of their sovereignty at every possible opportunity.

From what I’ve read Zelaya’s own civilian government refused to carry out the proposed referendum, after which he turned to the military which likewise balked at obeying his orders. The ensuing Nixonesque “Saturday Night Massacre” set off the chain of events that resulted in Zelaya’s removal.

In all of the discussion and reporting of the events in Honduras I’ve heard very little about the desires and interests of the Honduran people … most of what I read is about the interests and opinions of Venezuela, Argentina, and other governments thousands of miles away. I doubt that foreign influence sits well with the average Honduran, whether in the form of Yanqui imperialismo or Venezuelan Chavismo.

On a more humorous note, there was one memorable act of terrorism while I was there … someone fired an RPG at a foreign-owned brewery and damaged a storage tank full of Cerveza Port Royal Export. I still think of this as a crime against humanity.

[AK]

I spent a total of about six months in Honduras, but had relatively little contact with civilians. I left with the impression of a desperately poor yet fiercely proud country that chafed at living in the cultural and economic shadows of both the United States and Mexico. The alliance with the United States seemed like one of temporary convenience and the Hondurans reminded us of their sovereignty at every possible opportunity.

From what I’ve read Zelaya’s own civilian government refused to carry out the proposed referendum, after which he turned to the military which likewise balked at obeying his orders. The ensuing Nixonesque “Saturday Night Massacre” set off the chain of events that resulted in Zelaya’s removal.

In all of the discussion and reporting of the events in Honduras I’ve heard very little about the desires and interests of the Honduran people … most of what I read is about the interests and opinions of Venezuela, Argentina, and other governments thousands of miles away. I doubt that foreign influence sits well with the average Honduran, whether in the form of Yanqui imperialismo or Venezuelan Chavismo.

On a more humorous note, there was one memorable act of terrorism while I was there … someone fired an RPG at a foreign-owned brewery and damaged a storage tank full of Cerveza Port Royal Export. I still think of this as a crime against humanity.

[AK]

I spent a total of about six months in Honduras, but had relatively little contact with civilians. I left with the impression of a desperately poor yet fiercely proud country that chafed at living in the cultural and economic shadows of both the United States and Mexico. The alliance with the United States seemed like one of temporary convenience and the Hondurans reminded us of their sovereignty at every possible opportunity.

From what I’ve read Zelaya’s own civilian government refused to carry out the proposed referendum, after which he turned to the military which likewise balked at obeying his orders. The ensuing Nixonesque “Saturday Night Massacre” set off the chain of events that resulted in Zelaya’s removal.

In all of the discussion and reporting of the events in Honduras I’ve heard very little about the desires and interests of the Honduran people … most of what I read is about the interests and opinions of Venezuela, Argentina, and other governments thousands of miles away. I doubt that foreign influence sits well with the average Honduran, whether in the form of Yanqui imperialismo or Venezuelan Chavismo.

On a more humorous note, there was one memorable act of terrorism while I was there … someone fired an RPG at a foreign-owned brewery and damaged a storage tank full of Cerveza Port Royal Export. I still think of this as a crime against humanity.

[AK]

I spent a total of about six months in Honduras, but had relatively little contact with civilians. I left with the impression of a desperately poor yet fiercely proud country that chafed at living in the cultural and economic shadows of both the United States and Mexico. The alliance with the United States seemed like one of temporary convenience and the Hondurans reminded us of their sovereignty at every possible opportunity.

From what I’ve read Zelaya’s own civilian government refused to carry out the proposed referendum, after which he turned to the military which likewise balked at obeying his orders. The ensuing Nixonesque “Saturday Night Massacre” set off the chain of events that resulted in Zelaya’s removal.

In all of the discussion and reporting of the events in Honduras I’ve heard very little about the desires and interests of the Honduran people … most of what I read is about the interests and opinions of Venezuela, Argentina, and other governments thousands of miles away. I doubt that foreign influence sits well with the average Honduran, whether in the form of Yanqui imperialismo or Venezuelan Chavismo.

On a more humorous note, there was one memorable act of terrorism while I was there … someone fired an RPG at a foreign-owned brewery and damaged a storage tank full of Cerveza Port Royal Export. I still think of this as a crime against humanity.

[AK]

I spent a total of about six months in Honduras, but had relatively little contact with civilians. I left with the impression of a desperately poor yet fiercely proud country that chafed at living in the cultural and economic shadows of both the United States and Mexico. The alliance with the United States seemed like one of temporary convenience and the Hondurans reminded us of their sovereignty at every possible opportunity.

From what I’ve read Zelaya’s own civilian government refused to carry out the proposed referendum, after which he turned to the military which likewise balked at obeying his orders. The ensuing Nixonesque “Saturday Night Massacre” set off the chain of events that resulted in Zelaya’s removal.

In all of the discussion and reporting of the events in Honduras I’ve heard very little about the desires and interests of the Honduran people … most of what I read is about the interests and opinions of Venezuela, Argentina, and other governments thousands of miles away. I doubt that foreign influence sits well with the average Honduran, whether in the form of Yanqui imperialismo or Venezuelan Chavismo.

On a more humorous note, there was one memorable act of terrorism while I was there … someone fired an RPG at a foreign-owned brewery and damaged a storage tank full of Cerveza Port Royal Export. I still think of this as a crime against humanity.

[waiting for bottom]

I completely agree that this does not seem like a coup.

I am trying to give Obama the benefit of the doubt that you can’t just forcibily remove an elected President from office…a slippery slope.

But it also seems clear Zelaya wasn’t going to take no for an answer – see Chavez.

“A patriot defends his country against its government”

[waiting for bottom]

I completely agree that this does not seem like a coup.

I am trying to give Obama the benefit of the doubt that you can’t just forcibily remove an elected President from office…a slippery slope.

But it also seems clear Zelaya wasn’t going to take no for an answer – see Chavez.

“A patriot defends his country against its government”

[waiting for bottom]

I completely agree that this does not seem like a coup.

I am trying to give Obama the benefit of the doubt that you can’t just forcibily remove an elected President from office…a slippery slope.

But it also seems clear Zelaya wasn’t going to take no for an answer – see Chavez.

“A patriot defends his country against its government”

[waiting for bottom]

I completely agree that this does not seem like a coup.

I am trying to give Obama the benefit of the doubt that you can’t just forcibily remove an elected President from office…a slippery slope.

But it also seems clear Zelaya wasn’t going to take no for an answer – see Chavez.

“A patriot defends his country against its government”

[waiting for bottom]

I completely agree that this does not seem like a coup.

I am trying to give Obama the benefit of the doubt that you can’t just forcibily remove an elected President from office…a slippery slope.

But it also seems clear Zelaya wasn’t going to take no for an answer – see Chavez.

“A patriot defends his country against its government”

[Allan from Fallbrook]

I think AK hit the nail on the head with his assessment.

Glenn Garvin at the Miami Herald wrote a good article about the events leading up to the “coup” (which appears to be the Honduran Army responding to orders from the Honduran Supreme Court acting within the guidelines of their constitution, which Zelaya was trying to hijack) and also the varying responses from the US, the OAS and, best of all, Hugo Chavez, who is now openly threatening to depose Zelaya’s interim replacement.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1120408.html

I don’t know if Hillary Clinton didn’t receive a complete briefing from her NSC folks, but she is about as far off the beam as possible on this one.

Zelaya is clearly in the wrong here. I’m not sure about sending him to Costa Rica (versus, say, house arrest while the Honduran Supreme Court sorts this out), but at least they didn’t shoot him and throw him in a ditch. Oh, wait, that’s Guatemala.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

I think AK hit the nail on the head with his assessment.

Glenn Garvin at the Miami Herald wrote a good article about the events leading up to the “coup” (which appears to be the Honduran Army responding to orders from the Honduran Supreme Court acting within the guidelines of their constitution, which Zelaya was trying to hijack) and also the varying responses from the US, the OAS and, best of all, Hugo Chavez, who is now openly threatening to depose Zelaya’s interim replacement.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1120408.html

I don’t know if Hillary Clinton didn’t receive a complete briefing from her NSC folks, but she is about as far off the beam as possible on this one.

Zelaya is clearly in the wrong here. I’m not sure about sending him to Costa Rica (versus, say, house arrest while the Honduran Supreme Court sorts this out), but at least they didn’t shoot him and throw him in a ditch. Oh, wait, that’s Guatemala.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

I think AK hit the nail on the head with his assessment.

Glenn Garvin at the Miami Herald wrote a good article about the events leading up to the “coup” (which appears to be the Honduran Army responding to orders from the Honduran Supreme Court acting within the guidelines of their constitution, which Zelaya was trying to hijack) and also the varying responses from the US, the OAS and, best of all, Hugo Chavez, who is now openly threatening to depose Zelaya’s interim replacement.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1120408.html

I don’t know if Hillary Clinton didn’t receive a complete briefing from her NSC folks, but she is about as far off the beam as possible on this one.

Zelaya is clearly in the wrong here. I’m not sure about sending him to Costa Rica (versus, say, house arrest while the Honduran Supreme Court sorts this out), but at least they didn’t shoot him and throw him in a ditch. Oh, wait, that’s Guatemala.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

I think AK hit the nail on the head with his assessment.

Glenn Garvin at the Miami Herald wrote a good article about the events leading up to the “coup” (which appears to be the Honduran Army responding to orders from the Honduran Supreme Court acting within the guidelines of their constitution, which Zelaya was trying to hijack) and also the varying responses from the US, the OAS and, best of all, Hugo Chavez, who is now openly threatening to depose Zelaya’s interim replacement.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1120408.html

I don’t know if Hillary Clinton didn’t receive a complete briefing from her NSC folks, but she is about as far off the beam as possible on this one.

Zelaya is clearly in the wrong here. I’m not sure about sending him to Costa Rica (versus, say, house arrest while the Honduran Supreme Court sorts this out), but at least they didn’t shoot him and throw him in a ditch. Oh, wait, that’s Guatemala.

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