Healthcare is not a right!?

[KSMountain]

I thought I had heard credible talk about setting doctor’s salaries. Certainly the government would be establishing prices for certain services on a vast scale.

But I guess you’re right, the public option (this year anyway) is a govt. “insurance” company, not govt. provision of the actual health care.

You’re right I should read the bill, but not today or tomorrow. 🙂

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain]I thought I had heard credible talk about setting doctor’s salaries. Certainly the government would be establishing prices for certain services on a vast scale.

But I guess you’re right, the public option (this year anyway) is a govt. “insurance” company, not govt. provision of the actual health care.

You’re right I should read the bill, but not today or tomorrow. :)[/quote]

You also probably heard about death panels and free insurance for illegal immigrants. There was a post here a few months back with about 60 claims about the first house bill, with citations. I reviewed each one of them. Roughly 90% were entirely bogus. The rest had only small elements of truthiness. There may have been talk that came from otherwise credible sources about setting doctor’s salaries. That talk was without basis.

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain]I thought I had heard credible talk about setting doctor’s salaries. Certainly the government would be establishing prices for certain services on a vast scale.

But I guess you’re right, the public option (this year anyway) is a govt. “insurance” company, not govt. provision of the actual health care.

You’re right I should read the bill, but not today or tomorrow. :)[/quote]

You also probably heard about death panels and free insurance for illegal immigrants. There was a post here a few months back with about 60 claims about the first house bill, with citations. I reviewed each one of them. Roughly 90% were entirely bogus. The rest had only small elements of truthiness. There may have been talk that came from otherwise credible sources about setting doctor’s salaries. That talk was without basis.

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain]I thought I had heard credible talk about setting doctor’s salaries. Certainly the government would be establishing prices for certain services on a vast scale.

But I guess you’re right, the public option (this year anyway) is a govt. “insurance” company, not govt. provision of the actual health care.

You’re right I should read the bill, but not today or tomorrow. :)[/quote]

You also probably heard about death panels and free insurance for illegal immigrants. There was a post here a few months back with about 60 claims about the first house bill, with citations. I reviewed each one of them. Roughly 90% were entirely bogus. The rest had only small elements of truthiness. There may have been talk that came from otherwise credible sources about setting doctor’s salaries. That talk was without basis.

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain]I thought I had heard credible talk about setting doctor’s salaries. Certainly the government would be establishing prices for certain services on a vast scale.

But I guess you’re right, the public option (this year anyway) is a govt. “insurance” company, not govt. provision of the actual health care.

You’re right I should read the bill, but not today or tomorrow. :)[/quote]

You also probably heard about death panels and free insurance for illegal immigrants. There was a post here a few months back with about 60 claims about the first house bill, with citations. I reviewed each one of them. Roughly 90% were entirely bogus. The rest had only small elements of truthiness. There may have been talk that came from otherwise credible sources about setting doctor’s salaries. That talk was without basis.

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain]I thought I had heard credible talk about setting doctor’s salaries. Certainly the government would be establishing prices for certain services on a vast scale.

But I guess you’re right, the public option (this year anyway) is a govt. “insurance” company, not govt. provision of the actual health care.

You’re right I should read the bill, but not today or tomorrow. :)[/quote]

You also probably heard about death panels and free insurance for illegal immigrants. There was a post here a few months back with about 60 claims about the first house bill, with citations. I reviewed each one of them. Roughly 90% were entirely bogus. The rest had only small elements of truthiness. There may have been talk that came from otherwise credible sources about setting doctor’s salaries. That talk was without basis.

[jficquette]

Constitutiona Lawyer’s take on the HC bill. Sorry for length. No link.

“…Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The lawdoes provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn’t have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendmentsmay provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn’t work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law It doesn’t stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to “be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution.” If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law

Instructor
Carrollton , Texas

[jficquette]

Constitutiona Lawyer’s take on the HC bill. Sorry for length. No link.

“…Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The lawdoes provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn’t have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendmentsmay provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn’t work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law It doesn’t stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to “be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution.” If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law

Instructor
Carrollton , Texas

[jficquette]

Constitutiona Lawyer’s take on the HC bill. Sorry for length. No link.

“…Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The lawdoes provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn’t have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendmentsmay provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn’t work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law It doesn’t stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to “be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution.” If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law

Instructor
Carrollton , Texas

[jficquette]

Constitutiona Lawyer’s take on the HC bill. Sorry for length. No link.

“…Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The lawdoes provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn’t have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendmentsmay provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn’t work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law It doesn’t stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to “be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution.” If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law

Instructor
Carrollton , Texas

[jficquette]

Constitutiona Lawyer’s take on the HC bill. Sorry for length. No link.

“…Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The lawdoes provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn’t have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendmentsmay provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn’t work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law It doesn’t stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to “be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution.” If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law

Instructor
Carrollton , Texas

[KSMountain]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]Wealth and hard work/productivity are not directly correlated, IMHO.[/quote]

I will agree that they are not PERFECTLY correlated. I might also agree that they are not DIRECTLY correlated (or is that a distinction without a difference?). However, will you at least acknowledge that in a large population wealth and hard work/productivity are GENERALLY correlated? That is if you were to run a regression of hard work/productivity units (independent variable) versus wealth units (dependent variable), the resulting R-squared would be at least 60% or so? (Such that wealth is in a meaningfully positive manner a function of hard work/productivity.)

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of Taleb and believe that most successful folks underestimate the role of luck in their success… but I do believe that there’s a significant positive correlation between wealth and hard work/productivity. Although certainly not nearly as positive as most would like.[/quote]
If you work two jobs (as I have done) you will have less free time but definitely make more money. So there’s a correlation right there.

I previously posted a link about correlation of education level with income. So that would be another example where the “work” to get the degree(s) ultimately resulted in a reward.

Say you become an Anesthesiologist. Lot of work right? What is it, 8 years *after* undergrad? More? Those folks make over 300k I believe. Perhaps they deserve it.

What about a musician, say Dave Matthews? Did he work hard to get where he is? Was it connections, or was it talent and/or hard work?

How about the google guys? Was it their “connections”, or was it that they had a clever idea and took the effort to implement a prototype and took some risks and made smart decisions about how to start up their company? How many folks do they employ now?

Perhaps even for the financial weenies it’s not that easy. I don’t actually know. Perhaps some of them actually do work hard, does anyone know?

[KSMountain]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]Wealth and hard work/productivity are not directly correlated, IMHO.[/quote]

I will agree that they are not PERFECTLY correlated. I might also agree that they are not DIRECTLY correlated (or is that a distinction without a difference?). However, will you at least acknowledge that in a large population wealth and hard work/productivity are GENERALLY correlated? That is if you were to run a regression of hard work/productivity units (independent variable) versus wealth units (dependent variable), the resulting R-squared would be at least 60% or so? (Such that wealth is in a meaningfully positive manner a function of hard work/productivity.)

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of Taleb and believe that most successful folks underestimate the role of luck in their success… but I do believe that there’s a significant positive correlation between wealth and hard work/productivity. Although certainly not nearly as positive as most would like.[/quote]
If you work two jobs (as I have done) you will have less free time but definitely make more money. So there’s a correlation right there.

I previously posted a link about correlation of education level with income. So that would be another example where the “work” to get the degree(s) ultimately resulted in a reward.

Say you become an Anesthesiologist. Lot of work right? What is it, 8 years *after* undergrad? More? Those folks make over 300k I believe. Perhaps they deserve it.

What about a musician, say Dave Matthews? Did he work hard to get where he is? Was it connections, or was it talent and/or hard work?

How about the google guys? Was it their “connections”, or was it that they had a clever idea and took the effort to implement a prototype and took some risks and made smart decisions about how to start up their company? How many folks do they employ now?

Perhaps even for the financial weenies it’s not that easy. I don’t actually know. Perhaps some of them actually do work hard, does anyone know?

[KSMountain]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]Wealth and hard work/productivity are not directly correlated, IMHO.[/quote]

I will agree that they are not PERFECTLY correlated. I might also agree that they are not DIRECTLY correlated (or is that a distinction without a difference?). However, will you at least acknowledge that in a large population wealth and hard work/productivity are GENERALLY correlated? That is if you were to run a regression of hard work/productivity units (independent variable) versus wealth units (dependent variable), the resulting R-squared would be at least 60% or so? (Such that wealth is in a meaningfully positive manner a function of hard work/productivity.)

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of Taleb and believe that most successful folks underestimate the role of luck in their success… but I do believe that there’s a significant positive correlation between wealth and hard work/productivity. Although certainly not nearly as positive as most would like.[/quote]
If you work two jobs (as I have done) you will have less free time but definitely make more money. So there’s a correlation right there.

I previously posted a link about correlation of education level with income. So that would be another example where the “work” to get the degree(s) ultimately resulted in a reward.

Say you become an Anesthesiologist. Lot of work right? What is it, 8 years *after* undergrad? More? Those folks make over 300k I believe. Perhaps they deserve it.

What about a musician, say Dave Matthews? Did he work hard to get where he is? Was it connections, or was it talent and/or hard work?

How about the google guys? Was it their “connections”, or was it that they had a clever idea and took the effort to implement a prototype and took some risks and made smart decisions about how to start up their company? How many folks do they employ now?

Perhaps even for the financial weenies it’s not that easy. I don’t actually know. Perhaps some of them actually do work hard, does anyone know?

[KSMountain]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]Wealth and hard work/productivity are not directly correlated, IMHO.[/quote]

I will agree that they are not PERFECTLY correlated. I might also agree that they are not DIRECTLY correlated (or is that a distinction without a difference?). However, will you at least acknowledge that in a large population wealth and hard work/productivity are GENERALLY correlated? That is if you were to run a regression of hard work/productivity units (independent variable) versus wealth units (dependent variable), the resulting R-squared would be at least 60% or so? (Such that wealth is in a meaningfully positive manner a function of hard work/productivity.)

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of Taleb and believe that most successful folks underestimate the role of luck in their success… but I do believe that there’s a significant positive correlation between wealth and hard work/productivity. Although certainly not nearly as positive as most would like.[/quote]
If you work two jobs (as I have done) you will have less free time but definitely make more money. So there’s a correlation right there.

I previously posted a link about correlation of education level with income. So that would be another example where the “work” to get the degree(s) ultimately resulted in a reward.

Say you become an Anesthesiologist. Lot of work right? What is it, 8 years *after* undergrad? More? Those folks make over 300k I believe. Perhaps they deserve it.

What about a musician, say Dave Matthews? Did he work hard to get where he is? Was it connections, or was it talent and/or hard work?

How about the google guys? Was it their “connections”, or was it that they had a clever idea and took the effort to implement a prototype and took some risks and made smart decisions about how to start up their company? How many folks do they employ now?

Perhaps even for the financial weenies it’s not that easy. I don’t actually know. Perhaps some of them actually do work hard, does anyone know?

[Author]

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