going broke on 300K/year

[patientrenter]

[quote=davelj]….vacations to Montserrat associated with that hot 24-year old that won the bikini contest at the Baja 1000. Trust me on this one.[/quote]

LoL! I hope you enjoyed the bikini. Well, I agree with your analysis of the relative cost of marriage vs dating from the guy’s PoV. Marriage is like the fixed-price union contract for half of the population. I’m not saying unions don’t have a place, just drawing an analogy.

[cabal]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Cabal: If anything, the situation you describe above has only grown worse during the downturn. The parents of one of my players were hammered over the last few years (he was a mortgage broker and she was a Realtor) and their standard of living has plummeted. They seemed to tolerate each other before, but now it’s turned vile and she openly berates him publicly, which is painful and embarrassing to watch. He is a decent enough sort, and he almost acts like he deserves this treatment from her.

I know the kid is humiliated by this, but it’s not the exception, unfortunately. This entitlement mentality was very strong for a lot of folks and now that things have turned ugly, they’ve turned on each other. I don’t get the sense of shared sacrifice or determination (what my dad would call “grit” or “sand”) to weather the storm, what I get is middle-aged spoiled brats pissed off that the party has stopped.

Like I said in my earlier post, the sense of disconnection from reality is amazing and more than a little frightening. My grandma lived through the Great Depression and she was one tough lady, believe me. No bitching, no complaining; just a rock solid work ethic and the discipline to ride out the tough times.[/quote]

Allan – You are absolutely right as I’ve observed the exact same phenomena. This generations response to adversity is totally disparate from past generations – no honor. One has to wonder if the volatile combination of the excesses from recent bubbles, coupled with the aftermath of modern feminism played a significant role in perverting present day marital dynamics. While I agree with the ideals of modern feminism in principle, you can count me out if this is one of the emerging paradigms. The pendulum has swung too far to the other side and if reverting back to more traditional roles helps to reverse attitudes as others have noted, then I’m all for it. The question is as we continue on this current trajectory, what kind of societal train wreck awaits us in the not so distant future ? It’s not hard to envision the whole notion of marriage become obsolete, or prenups become standard operating procedure since our ever intruding government decided long ago to turn marriage into a legal and binding contract, apparently for the overall benefit of society. May have some merit 50 years, but is certainly less relevant today.

In retrospect, I should feel lucky to still be married after 21 years. My wife and I are frugal except with our children which we spoil without hesitation. However, she occasionally succumbs to the dark side and drag me the down the rabbit hole with her. Here’s a little anecdote for you. After a typical girls night out with her high maintenance girlfriends, one of them proudly and shamelessly flaunted her newly upgraded wedding ring. Needless to say, my wifes 1/2 carat ring looked like a grain of sand in comparison. Well our 20th anniversary was approaching so naturally she leveraged that and talked me into upgrading her ring. I agreed and we picked out a nice 2 carat rock. A few weeks later, the new ring shows up. To my surprise, in addition to the new rock, there was a whole bunch of other diamonds that wrapped around the band. Apparently her psycho friends convinced her the main diamond needed more accent diamonds for it to look right. She agreed and paid for the additional upgrade. I don’t care about the money because we can afford it, but I was pissed that she caved in to peer pressure. Oh well, at least she didn’t go out and trade in her perfectly good car for a Range Rover.

[cabal]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Cabal: If anything, the situation you describe above has only grown worse during the downturn. The parents of one of my players were hammered over the last few years (he was a mortgage broker and she was a Realtor) and their standard of living has plummeted. They seemed to tolerate each other before, but now it’s turned vile and she openly berates him publicly, which is painful and embarrassing to watch. He is a decent enough sort, and he almost acts like he deserves this treatment from her.

I know the kid is humiliated by this, but it’s not the exception, unfortunately. This entitlement mentality was very strong for a lot of folks and now that things have turned ugly, they’ve turned on each other. I don’t get the sense of shared sacrifice or determination (what my dad would call “grit” or “sand”) to weather the storm, what I get is middle-aged spoiled brats pissed off that the party has stopped.

Like I said in my earlier post, the sense of disconnection from reality is amazing and more than a little frightening. My grandma lived through the Great Depression and she was one tough lady, believe me. No bitching, no complaining; just a rock solid work ethic and the discipline to ride out the tough times.[/quote]

Allan – You are absolutely right as I’ve observed the exact same phenomena. This generations response to adversity is totally disparate from past generations – no honor. One has to wonder if the volatile combination of the excesses from recent bubbles, coupled with the aftermath of modern feminism played a significant role in perverting present day marital dynamics. While I agree with the ideals of modern feminism in principle, you can count me out if this is one of the emerging paradigms. The pendulum has swung too far to the other side and if reverting back to more traditional roles helps to reverse attitudes as others have noted, then I’m all for it. The question is as we continue on this current trajectory, what kind of societal train wreck awaits us in the not so distant future ? It’s not hard to envision the whole notion of marriage become obsolete, or prenups become standard operating procedure since our ever intruding government decided long ago to turn marriage into a legal and binding contract, apparently for the overall benefit of society. May have some merit 50 years, but is certainly less relevant today.

In retrospect, I should feel lucky to still be married after 21 years. My wife and I are frugal except with our children which we spoil without hesitation. However, she occasionally succumbs to the dark side and drag me the down the rabbit hole with her. Here’s a little anecdote for you. After a typical girls night out with her high maintenance girlfriends, one of them proudly and shamelessly flaunted her newly upgraded wedding ring. Needless to say, my wifes 1/2 carat ring looked like a grain of sand in comparison. Well our 20th anniversary was approaching so naturally she leveraged that and talked me into upgrading her ring. I agreed and we picked out a nice 2 carat rock. A few weeks later, the new ring shows up. To my surprise, in addition to the new rock, there was a whole bunch of other diamonds that wrapped around the band. Apparently her psycho friends convinced her the main diamond needed more accent diamonds for it to look right. She agreed and paid for the additional upgrade. I don’t care about the money because we can afford it, but I was pissed that she caved in to peer pressure. Oh well, at least she didn’t go out and trade in her perfectly good car for a Range Rover.

[cabal]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Cabal: If anything, the situation you describe above has only grown worse during the downturn. The parents of one of my players were hammered over the last few years (he was a mortgage broker and she was a Realtor) and their standard of living has plummeted. They seemed to tolerate each other before, but now it’s turned vile and she openly berates him publicly, which is painful and embarrassing to watch. He is a decent enough sort, and he almost acts like he deserves this treatment from her.

I know the kid is humiliated by this, but it’s not the exception, unfortunately. This entitlement mentality was very strong for a lot of folks and now that things have turned ugly, they’ve turned on each other. I don’t get the sense of shared sacrifice or determination (what my dad would call “grit” or “sand”) to weather the storm, what I get is middle-aged spoiled brats pissed off that the party has stopped.

Like I said in my earlier post, the sense of disconnection from reality is amazing and more than a little frightening. My grandma lived through the Great Depression and she was one tough lady, believe me. No bitching, no complaining; just a rock solid work ethic and the discipline to ride out the tough times.[/quote]

Allan – You are absolutely right as I’ve observed the exact same phenomena. This generations response to adversity is totally disparate from past generations – no honor. One has to wonder if the volatile combination of the excesses from recent bubbles, coupled with the aftermath of modern feminism played a significant role in perverting present day marital dynamics. While I agree with the ideals of modern feminism in principle, you can count me out if this is one of the emerging paradigms. The pendulum has swung too far to the other side and if reverting back to more traditional roles helps to reverse attitudes as others have noted, then I’m all for it. The question is as we continue on this current trajectory, what kind of societal train wreck awaits us in the not so distant future ? It’s not hard to envision the whole notion of marriage become obsolete, or prenups become standard operating procedure since our ever intruding government decided long ago to turn marriage into a legal and binding contract, apparently for the overall benefit of society. May have some merit 50 years, but is certainly less relevant today.

In retrospect, I should feel lucky to still be married after 21 years. My wife and I are frugal except with our children which we spoil without hesitation. However, she occasionally succumbs to the dark side and drag me the down the rabbit hole with her. Here’s a little anecdote for you. After a typical girls night out with her high maintenance girlfriends, one of them proudly and shamelessly flaunted her newly upgraded wedding ring. Needless to say, my wifes 1/2 carat ring looked like a grain of sand in comparison. Well our 20th anniversary was approaching so naturally she leveraged that and talked me into upgrading her ring. I agreed and we picked out a nice 2 carat rock. A few weeks later, the new ring shows up. To my surprise, in addition to the new rock, there was a whole bunch of other diamonds that wrapped around the band. Apparently her psycho friends convinced her the main diamond needed more accent diamonds for it to look right. She agreed and paid for the additional upgrade. I don’t care about the money because we can afford it, but I was pissed that she caved in to peer pressure. Oh well, at least she didn’t go out and trade in her perfectly good car for a Range Rover.

[cabal]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Cabal: If anything, the situation you describe above has only grown worse during the downturn. The parents of one of my players were hammered over the last few years (he was a mortgage broker and she was a Realtor) and their standard of living has plummeted. They seemed to tolerate each other before, but now it’s turned vile and she openly berates him publicly, which is painful and embarrassing to watch. He is a decent enough sort, and he almost acts like he deserves this treatment from her.

I know the kid is humiliated by this, but it’s not the exception, unfortunately. This entitlement mentality was very strong for a lot of folks and now that things have turned ugly, they’ve turned on each other. I don’t get the sense of shared sacrifice or determination (what my dad would call “grit” or “sand”) to weather the storm, what I get is middle-aged spoiled brats pissed off that the party has stopped.

Like I said in my earlier post, the sense of disconnection from reality is amazing and more than a little frightening. My grandma lived through the Great Depression and she was one tough lady, believe me. No bitching, no complaining; just a rock solid work ethic and the discipline to ride out the tough times.[/quote]

Allan – You are absolutely right as I’ve observed the exact same phenomena. This generations response to adversity is totally disparate from past generations – no honor. One has to wonder if the volatile combination of the excesses from recent bubbles, coupled with the aftermath of modern feminism played a significant role in perverting present day marital dynamics. While I agree with the ideals of modern feminism in principle, you can count me out if this is one of the emerging paradigms. The pendulum has swung too far to the other side and if reverting back to more traditional roles helps to reverse attitudes as others have noted, then I’m all for it. The question is as we continue on this current trajectory, what kind of societal train wreck awaits us in the not so distant future ? It’s not hard to envision the whole notion of marriage become obsolete, or prenups become standard operating procedure since our ever intruding government decided long ago to turn marriage into a legal and binding contract, apparently for the overall benefit of society. May have some merit 50 years, but is certainly less relevant today.

In retrospect, I should feel lucky to still be married after 21 years. My wife and I are frugal except with our children which we spoil without hesitation. However, she occasionally succumbs to the dark side and drag me the down the rabbit hole with her. Here’s a little anecdote for you. After a typical girls night out with her high maintenance girlfriends, one of them proudly and shamelessly flaunted her newly upgraded wedding ring. Needless to say, my wifes 1/2 carat ring looked like a grain of sand in comparison. Well our 20th anniversary was approaching so naturally she leveraged that and talked me into upgrading her ring. I agreed and we picked out a nice 2 carat rock. A few weeks later, the new ring shows up. To my surprise, in addition to the new rock, there was a whole bunch of other diamonds that wrapped around the band. Apparently her psycho friends convinced her the main diamond needed more accent diamonds for it to look right. She agreed and paid for the additional upgrade. I don’t care about the money because we can afford it, but I was pissed that she caved in to peer pressure. Oh well, at least she didn’t go out and trade in her perfectly good car for a Range Rover.

[cabal]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Cabal: If anything, the situation you describe above has only grown worse during the downturn. The parents of one of my players were hammered over the last few years (he was a mortgage broker and she was a Realtor) and their standard of living has plummeted. They seemed to tolerate each other before, but now it’s turned vile and she openly berates him publicly, which is painful and embarrassing to watch. He is a decent enough sort, and he almost acts like he deserves this treatment from her.

I know the kid is humiliated by this, but it’s not the exception, unfortunately. This entitlement mentality was very strong for a lot of folks and now that things have turned ugly, they’ve turned on each other. I don’t get the sense of shared sacrifice or determination (what my dad would call “grit” or “sand”) to weather the storm, what I get is middle-aged spoiled brats pissed off that the party has stopped.

Like I said in my earlier post, the sense of disconnection from reality is amazing and more than a little frightening. My grandma lived through the Great Depression and she was one tough lady, believe me. No bitching, no complaining; just a rock solid work ethic and the discipline to ride out the tough times.[/quote]

Allan – You are absolutely right as I’ve observed the exact same phenomena. This generations response to adversity is totally disparate from past generations – no honor. One has to wonder if the volatile combination of the excesses from recent bubbles, coupled with the aftermath of modern feminism played a significant role in perverting present day marital dynamics. While I agree with the ideals of modern feminism in principle, you can count me out if this is one of the emerging paradigms. The pendulum has swung too far to the other side and if reverting back to more traditional roles helps to reverse attitudes as others have noted, then I’m all for it. The question is as we continue on this current trajectory, what kind of societal train wreck awaits us in the not so distant future ? It’s not hard to envision the whole notion of marriage become obsolete, or prenups become standard operating procedure since our ever intruding government decided long ago to turn marriage into a legal and binding contract, apparently for the overall benefit of society. May have some merit 50 years, but is certainly less relevant today.

In retrospect, I should feel lucky to still be married after 21 years. My wife and I are frugal except with our children which we spoil without hesitation. However, she occasionally succumbs to the dark side and drag me the down the rabbit hole with her. Here’s a little anecdote for you. After a typical girls night out with her high maintenance girlfriends, one of them proudly and shamelessly flaunted her newly upgraded wedding ring. Needless to say, my wifes 1/2 carat ring looked like a grain of sand in comparison. Well our 20th anniversary was approaching so naturally she leveraged that and talked me into upgrading her ring. I agreed and we picked out a nice 2 carat rock. A few weeks later, the new ring shows up. To my surprise, in addition to the new rock, there was a whole bunch of other diamonds that wrapped around the band. Apparently her psycho friends convinced her the main diamond needed more accent diamonds for it to look right. She agreed and paid for the additional upgrade. I don’t care about the money because we can afford it, but I was pissed that she caved in to peer pressure. Oh well, at least she didn’t go out and trade in her perfectly good car for a Range Rover.

[temeculaguy]

I’m not ready to blame our society or our changing gender roles on the problems we see today. Some of these things are primal, they predate money, it’s just that money has replaced geing a good hunter or protector in modern times. Some of these women chose their mate because he was financially successful, in some cases, that was his greatest attribute. Now that some men have lost their income, she has lost her desire and ability to ignore his other faults and shortcomings. Not all women are gold diggers, but the ones that can be put in that category have flooded the market, as there is less gold out there. Same thing happens to men who seek a mate for beauty as the primary selection criteria, as that goes, so does his enthusiasm, the difference is that those situations have a steady pace, while the other has highs and lows based on the economy. The couples that either selected or grew to care about something other than looks or money, can ride out bad economies and aging skin, always have, always will. But the looks and money are not a product of the media, they are just today’s version of what was probably how cavemen and cavewomen evaluated each other, same game, different criteria.

We live longer now, we have less religious or societal pressure to stay in unhappy marriages, so the landscape has changed. Is it good or bad, I say both, for every example of a selfish divorce, i can probably find an equal number of pre 1950’s cases of abuse, infidelity or misery where the marriage stayed together because they had to, the good old days weren’t always so good.

[temeculaguy]

I’m not ready to blame our society or our changing gender roles on the problems we see today. Some of these things are primal, they predate money, it’s just that money has replaced geing a good hunter or protector in modern times. Some of these women chose their mate because he was financially successful, in some cases, that was his greatest attribute. Now that some men have lost their income, she has lost her desire and ability to ignore his other faults and shortcomings. Not all women are gold diggers, but the ones that can be put in that category have flooded the market, as there is less gold out there. Same thing happens to men who seek a mate for beauty as the primary selection criteria, as that goes, so does his enthusiasm, the difference is that those situations have a steady pace, while the other has highs and lows based on the economy. The couples that either selected or grew to care about something other than looks or money, can ride out bad economies and aging skin, always have, always will. But the looks and money are not a product of the media, they are just today’s version of what was probably how cavemen and cavewomen evaluated each other, same game, different criteria.

We live longer now, we have less religious or societal pressure to stay in unhappy marriages, so the landscape has changed. Is it good or bad, I say both, for every example of a selfish divorce, i can probably find an equal number of pre 1950’s cases of abuse, infidelity or misery where the marriage stayed together because they had to, the good old days weren’t always so good.

[temeculaguy]

I’m not ready to blame our society or our changing gender roles on the problems we see today. Some of these things are primal, they predate money, it’s just that money has replaced geing a good hunter or protector in modern times. Some of these women chose their mate because he was financially successful, in some cases, that was his greatest attribute. Now that some men have lost their income, she has lost her desire and ability to ignore his other faults and shortcomings. Not all women are gold diggers, but the ones that can be put in that category have flooded the market, as there is less gold out there. Same thing happens to men who seek a mate for beauty as the primary selection criteria, as that goes, so does his enthusiasm, the difference is that those situations have a steady pace, while the other has highs and lows based on the economy. The couples that either selected or grew to care about something other than looks or money, can ride out bad economies and aging skin, always have, always will. But the looks and money are not a product of the media, they are just today’s version of what was probably how cavemen and cavewomen evaluated each other, same game, different criteria.

We live longer now, we have less religious or societal pressure to stay in unhappy marriages, so the landscape has changed. Is it good or bad, I say both, for every example of a selfish divorce, i can probably find an equal number of pre 1950’s cases of abuse, infidelity or misery where the marriage stayed together because they had to, the good old days weren’t always so good.

[temeculaguy]

I’m not ready to blame our society or our changing gender roles on the problems we see today. Some of these things are primal, they predate money, it’s just that money has replaced geing a good hunter or protector in modern times. Some of these women chose their mate because he was financially successful, in some cases, that was his greatest attribute. Now that some men have lost their income, she has lost her desire and ability to ignore his other faults and shortcomings. Not all women are gold diggers, but the ones that can be put in that category have flooded the market, as there is less gold out there. Same thing happens to men who seek a mate for beauty as the primary selection criteria, as that goes, so does his enthusiasm, the difference is that those situations have a steady pace, while the other has highs and lows based on the economy. The couples that either selected or grew to care about something other than looks or money, can ride out bad economies and aging skin, always have, always will. But the looks and money are not a product of the media, they are just today’s version of what was probably how cavemen and cavewomen evaluated each other, same game, different criteria.

We live longer now, we have less religious or societal pressure to stay in unhappy marriages, so the landscape has changed. Is it good or bad, I say both, for every example of a selfish divorce, i can probably find an equal number of pre 1950’s cases of abuse, infidelity or misery where the marriage stayed together because they had to, the good old days weren’t always so good.

[temeculaguy]

I’m not ready to blame our society or our changing gender roles on the problems we see today. Some of these things are primal, they predate money, it’s just that money has replaced geing a good hunter or protector in modern times. Some of these women chose their mate because he was financially successful, in some cases, that was his greatest attribute. Now that some men have lost their income, she has lost her desire and ability to ignore his other faults and shortcomings. Not all women are gold diggers, but the ones that can be put in that category have flooded the market, as there is less gold out there. Same thing happens to men who seek a mate for beauty as the primary selection criteria, as that goes, so does his enthusiasm, the difference is that those situations have a steady pace, while the other has highs and lows based on the economy. The couples that either selected or grew to care about something other than looks or money, can ride out bad economies and aging skin, always have, always will. But the looks and money are not a product of the media, they are just today’s version of what was probably how cavemen and cavewomen evaluated each other, same game, different criteria.

We live longer now, we have less religious or societal pressure to stay in unhappy marriages, so the landscape has changed. Is it good or bad, I say both, for every example of a selfish divorce, i can probably find an equal number of pre 1950’s cases of abuse, infidelity or misery where the marriage stayed together because they had to, the good old days weren’t always so good.

[scaredyclassic]

in general, only fools marry.

[scaredyclassic]

in general, only fools marry.

[scaredyclassic]

in general, only fools marry.

[scaredyclassic]

in general, only fools marry.

[Author]

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