Fixing education

[an]

Interesting CNN GPS special: http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/05/gps-special-fixing-education/

What’s interesting is, we’re spending ~$10k/student while other countries average around ~$7k. So spending more probably won’t fix this problem.

[XBoxBoy]

Got a link to the whole show? I think the video on the link above is just a couple minute teaser.

[an]

[quote=XBoxBoy]Got a link to the whole show? I think the video on the link above is just a couple minute teaser.[/quote]
I can’t find any. They’re still airing the rerun right now (almost everyday). I DVR’d it. I assume they’ll put it on after they’re done with the rerun?

[patientrenter]

[quote=AN]…..What’s interesting is, we’re spending ~$10k/student while other countries average around ~$7k. So spending more probably won’t fix this problem.[/quote]

That was obvious all along, AN. We have horrible problems in large segments of our education system and, more generally, in how we raise some of our children.

In the US, education is run by a combination of teachers’ unions and politicians. No one should be surprised that the result is unfavorable to many children, yet comes at enormous cost to taxpayers.

South Korea and Finland were highlighted in the program as the highest-achieving countries, with opposite techniques for getting there. South Korea relied on rote drilling for massive amounts of time. Finland relied on uniformly high quality teachers in a homogeneous society with virtually no poverty. In both, education and teachers were treated with the utmost respect, comparable to doctors here in the US.

We won’t solve our education problems here in the US. Why? Because we are a heterogeneous society, complacent about vast segments of the population living in poverty and ignorance, and we respect doctors a lot more than teachers.

[an]

[quote=patientrenter]We won’t solve our education problems here in the US. Why? Because we are a heterogeneous society, complacent about vast segments of the population living in poverty and ignorance, and we respect doctors a lot more than teachers.[/quote]
Another interesting statistic that the segment brought up is the fact that 50% of our teachers place in the bottom 1/3 of the respective major in college. So, to expect the same kind of respect the teachers get in Finland, our teachers would have to be at the top of the respective area. The segment did say it’s harder to get into the teaching program in Finland than med school. So, only the best and brightest become teachers. Respect is earned. I’m sure our best teachers earn A LOT of respect here too.

What’s interesting about South Korea is that the government actually create a curfew to prevent people from studying too hard. Yet, people are still breaking the law to get that edge for their kids.

[blake]

[quote=AN]
What’s interesting about South Korea is that the government actually create a curfew to prevent people from studying too hard. Yet, people are still breaking the law to get that edge for their kids.[/quote]

Maybe they didn’t hear that 10 minutes of homework per grade is enough … *sigh*

[scaredyclassic]

Interesting article in Discover mag this month. Lots if new research shows lecturing is extremely ineffective at teaching science.

Cool new hands on interactive lessons w immediate questions and answrs via handheld devices works better

[Josh]

I think Finland and S. Korea are quite different from the US. These two countries have very homogeneous populations. In the US, we have many underclass populations like Hispanics, Blacks,and American Indians. Take out the scores of these underclass students and we are quite competitive (although still not as good as Finland and S. Korea).

Social/economic mobility is amazing hard to achieved even in the US. For Blacks, you have a group of former slaves and who for years suffer from discrimination. Native Americans suffered the similar fates. For Hispanics, you have the poorest of the Mexicans and El Salvadorians coming over the fences.

I have a coworker from Vietnam who keeps saying that his family came here with nothing but now he is an Engineer and his two of his siblings are a doctor and a Pharmacist. He argues that Black people in the US at least have the language skills and if they can’t make it they must be lazy. What he simply ignored is that his father was a general in the South Vietnamese government and his mom graduated from college in Vietnam. So my point is that if you are from the upper class of a country, you bring that education/knowledge/confidence/intangible upper class life skills to the US.

It doesn’t matter how much we want to spend, it is not going to help the people in South Central LA and Compton.

[an]

[quote=Josh]I think Finland and S. Korea are quite different from the US. These two countries have very homogeneous populations. In the US, we have many underclass populations like Hispanics, Blacks,and American Indians. Take out the scores of these underclass students and we are quite competitive (although still not as good as Finland and S. Korea).

Social/economic mobility is amazing hard to achieved even in the US. For Blacks, you have a group of former slaves and who for years suffer from discrimination. Native Americans suffered the similar fates. For Hispanics, you have the poorest of the Mexicans and El Salvadorians coming over the fences.

I have a coworker from Vietnam who keeps saying that his family came here with nothing but now he is an Engineer and his two of his siblings are a doctor and a Pharmacist. He argues that Black people in the US at least have the language skills and if they can’t make it they must be lazy. What he simply ignored is that his father was a general in the South Vietnamese government and his mom graduated from college in Vietnam. So my point is that if you are from the upper class of a country, you bring that education/knowledge/confidence/intangible upper class life skills to the US.

It doesn’t matter how much we want to spend, it is not going to help the people in South Central LA and Compton.[/quote]
I know many Vietnamese immigrants who parents were not part of the upper class. Some where farmers, some were teachers, some were accountants, yet their kids did well in school and have good careers (ranging from engineers, to doctors, to optometrist, etc). Those parents came here with nothing but the clothes on their back and maybe a few dollar if they’re lucky. Their profession in the US is also very diverse, from hair stylist, to gardener, to electronic technician, to engineer. Few went above that in term of education, since most of them are already in their late 20s by the time they get here. They don’t have the luxury to be in school for 10+ years and rack up student loans. They have many mouths to feed (not just the mouths here in US, many send money back to Vietnam to feed their relatives). The common thread for many Vietnamese immigrants is they tell their kids to study hard and be more than what they have become. Hence, the 2nd generation are much more successful than their parents. So, just because your coworker have a dad that was a general doesn’t mean they all have parents from the upper class.

So, to say black/hispanics/native american don’t have the “education/knowledge/confidence/intangible upper class life skills to the US” is a total cop out. If you don’t compare between different races, then compare between those who wants to succeed and those who don’t care w/in the same race. Check out the KIPP charter schools: http://www.kipp.org/. [quote=KIPP]Every day, KIPP students across the nation are proving that demographics do not define destiny. Over 85 percent of our students are from low-income families and eligible for the federal free or reduced-price meals program, and 95 percent are African American or Latino. Nationally, more than 95 percent of KIPP middle school students have graduated high school, and more than 85 percent of KIPP alumni have gone on to college.[/quote]
Point is, it doesn’t matter what your parents did or does, it matters if the parents put an emphasis on education. Asians know that to advance, you need a good education and they push that upon their kids (even parents who do menial labor work).

I agree with your last statement that it doesn’t matter how much we spend, we can’t make kids who don’t want/care to succeed, succeed.

[Author]

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