Entitlement mentality

[Allan from Fallbrook]

From the article: “First, if poor Americans were to compare their standard of living with what is normal elsewhere in the world, let alone in Congo, they would see they have little cause for discontent. Then again, were Americans not so incurably discontented with their lot, their great country would not be half as dynamic as it is.”

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz][quote=CA renter]
Have you ever been in a poor family’s house? Somehow, I doubt it.
[/quote]

For someone who claims to try and keep it civil, your comments reek of calling me ignorant. Have you forgotten that I have somewhat recently graduated College? Many of my friends graduated into a very awful job market. One lost his job 3 times in a year and a half. Another has been looking for work for 2 years. Both with a decent pile of student loan debt. They did not collect food stamps nor welfare, some didn’t qualify for unemployment insurance, because they had not yet been employed. One of my closest friends accidently got pregnant and had a kid (she is married), she was marginally unemployed and then unemployed and the other was in the middle of grad school, yet somehow they managed to stay of government assistance and buy health insurance. Currently my parents would qualify for food stamps and welfare after my dad’s last employer stopped paying him but did not lay him off, but they have enough assets to keep their pride.

I suspect though that this is not the kind of poor people you are referring too. You are referring to the type that have themselves on their heels with poor decisions and seem to constantly take steps back. Well I know a few of those people to, but to spell that out seems a bit unflattering.

In my view neither group of poor people needs free stuff, they need opportunity.

I wonder if you have ever been to a poor persons house.[/quote]

There’s a big difference between young people, fresh out of college, and families where both parents work and they still can’t afford to keep a stocked refrigerator.

I’ve been in these homes, and know how they run out of food every week because they have to juggle bills and can’t afford more groceries. They have to ration their food so they don’t completely run out before they can afford to go shopping again.

In your post above, you said that poor people in the US were overfed. They’re not overfed, but they often eat higher-calorie junk foods that tend to be cheaper, which can lead to obesity problems (if that’s what you were referring to).

An interesting article with insightful posts here:

http://news.change.org/stories/why-poor-people-dont-eat-nutritious-food

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]I can truly say, even the poorest of the poor here don’t even come close to the poor in the 3rd world country I’ve lived in.[/quote]

Here’s a good article about that very subject:

http://www.economist.com/node/5323888

The article is from 2005.

Mr Banks, for his part, expresses an intense dislike of President George Bush. “If someone shoots that sonofabitch, I’ll celebrate,” he says.

I’m curious what Mr Banks thinks about Obama today (actually I’m not.)[/quote]

That’s hillarious. So now, poor Americans aren’t “poor” if they are better off than people in war-torn African nations?

Wealth is relative, and most “poor” people don’t compare themselves to others halfway around the world; they compare themselves to those who are visible around them — in their own countries.

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]Looking around SoCal I see very few poor people. I grew up near and spent alot of time in Camden NJ growing up and worked in Newark NJ. That is poor like nothing I have seen around here. Boarded up homes, no windows, no heat and sometimes not running water in frigid temparatures and searing heat/humidity. I have been in some of their homes too. CAR grew up and spent essentially her whole life in SoCal. I doubt she has ever been exposed to true poverty.

BTW, all those kids in Camden still seem to be able to afford Air Jordans (or whatever the cool shoes are now), iPods, Cell Phones and mCDonalds all the time.[/quote]

Right. Poor people don’t exist in Los Angeles. Nope, no poor people there!

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]That’s hillarious. So now, poor Americans aren’t “poor” if they are better off than people in war-torn African nations?[/quote]

Well, um, I guess that’s one way to interpret the article. A bitter, biased way, but a way.

However I’m pretty sure that was not the point the author was trying to make (or anyone here, for that matter.) It was just an interesting anecdote about the world economy.

Some folks see the world as a little bigger place than the just a corner of a state they grew up in and never left.

[quote]Wealth is relative, and most “poor” people don’t compare themselves to others halfway around the world; they compare themselves to those who are visible around them — in their own countries.[/quote]

So if I move to Ranch Santa Fe, does that make me poor?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=pri_dk]So if I move to Ranch Santa Fe, does that make me poor?[/quote]

Pri: Poor AND uncouth!

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]Let’s also not forget that one of the primary jobs of our military is to force foreign markets to remain open for US businesses (either so we can sell into it or exploit their resources — including labor) and to keep the sea lanes open for US business interests. It has very little to do with protecting Joe Sixpack’s “freedom.”[/quote]

Just a couple of days ago you were spouting about how the economies of our Cold War adversaries collapsed solely because of US trade embargoes.

Today you are claiming that the military is about “forcing their markets to remain open.”

Which one is it? (don’t bother to answer, please)

You do know that people in the military are government employees?

Patent and trade enforcement? Government employees.

Where does Joe six-pack work, BTW?

Probably Qualcomm if he lives around here. (Do you think Qualcomm cares about patents?) Maybe Microsoft. Maybe he’s an engineer at Apple. Maybe an assembly line at GM. Maybe his wife Suzie works in HR at GE.

Most likely he works at one of the thousands of large companies that employ millions of Joe and Suzie six packs and sell their products here and all over the world.

But apparently it’s all evil, so let’s shut it all down.

Let’s make them get other jobs, working for the government, because there wouldn’t be many other alternatives. (But only the parts of the government that you find agreeable.)

They can find jobs paid with taxpayer money.

Hey, where did all the taxpayers go?

It’s amazing, we still have Useful Idiots in the 21st Century.[/quote]

Indeed, Useful Idiots who support the very entities that are trying to destroy them — those who have decimated manufacturing in this country, and who have amassed great wealth as a result, and who are trying to destroy whatever little is left of the middle class in the US. Keep pimping for those who have created a system where all the wealth is driven to the top and who are trying to create conditions that will further accelerate and intensify this wealth/income disparity. Keep on pimping, Pri.

Also, I never said that Russia collapsed solely because of trade embargoes; we forced them into putting a tremendous amout of their resources into their military/national defense, too.

BTW, do you know **why** we turned against Russia? Figure that out, and you’ll understand why those points you posted above are perfectly consistent. I won’t bother you with those “pesky” posts and links. You’ll have to look it up yourself.

[edit: When I say we force other countries to “open their markets,” I mean we want them to open their markets on OUR terms.]

[CA renter]

FWIW, I’ve lived in and spent significant amounts of time in other countries, and spent a lot of time traveling as well. Not sure where you got the idea that I never left the state.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CArenter]
[quote]Wealth is relative, and most “poor” people don’t compare themselves to others halfway around the world; they compare themselves to those who are visible around them — in their own countries.[/quote]

So if I move to Ranch Santa Fe, does that make me poor?[/quote]

When did Rancho Santa Fe become its own country?

But yes, if you lived in RSF and were significantly “poorer” than the majority of those around you, and if you never ventured much outside of RSF, you would probably feel relatively “poor.”

[jstoesz]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jstoesz][quote=CA renter]
Have you ever been in a poor family’s house? Somehow, I doubt it.
[/quote]

For someone who claims to try and keep it civil, your comments reek of calling me ignorant. Have you forgotten that I have somewhat recently graduated College? Many of my friends graduated into a very awful job market. One lost his job 3 times in a year and a half. Another has been looking for work for 2 years. Both with a decent pile of student loan debt. They did not collect food stamps nor welfare, some didn’t qualify for unemployment insurance, because they had not yet been employed. One of my closest friends accidently got pregnant and had a kid (she is married), she was marginally unemployed and then unemployed and the other was in the middle of grad school, yet somehow they managed to stay of government assistance and buy health insurance. Currently my parents would qualify for food stamps and welfare after my dad’s last employer stopped paying him but did not lay him off, but they have enough assets to keep their pride.

I suspect though that this is not the kind of poor people you are referring too. You are referring to the type that have themselves on their heels with poor decisions and seem to constantly take steps back. Well I know a few of those people to, but to spell that out seems a bit unflattering.

In my view neither group of poor people needs free stuff, they need opportunity.

I wonder if you have ever been to a poor persons house.[/quote]

There’s a big difference between young people, fresh out of college, and families where both parents work and they still can’t afford to keep a stocked refrigerator.

I’ve been in these homes, and know how they run out of food every week because they have to juggle bills and can’t afford more groceries. They have to ration their food so they don’t completely run out before they can afford to go shopping again.

In your post above, you said that poor people in the US were overfed. They’re not overfed, but they often eat higher-calorie junk foods that tend to be cheaper, which can lead to obesity problems (if that’s what you were referring to).

An interesting article with insightful posts here:

http://news.change.org/stories/why-poor-people-dont-eat-nutritious-food%5B/quote%5D

Calories are calories. If you lived on 1000 cal of McDonalds you would be skinny, and not even malnourished if you stuck to their salads and grilled chicken. We should rejoice at the service McDonalds provides, I guess that is why it is the largest restaurant company in the world.

Furthermore, people don’t eat healthy because they don’t want to. Giving them more money will just divert their income to other appetites (cell phones, cable, etc). Why do you think there is a thriving black market for food stamps?

Its like housing. We made it possible for everyone in this country to “own” a home, because it was the “road to the middle class.” Problem was most people who obtained those mortgages were not financially mature enough to keep their homes, leaving them more destitute. Just because people have the means to be healthy does not mean they will take the opportunity. Obesity among the poor is not symptomatic of too few resources which is contradictory on its face, it is systematic of poor decision making.

Caveat, obesity is not a tell all of poor decision making. Churchill became quite obese…

Oh, one other note. With our safety nets in place, there are no families in america where both parents work, and they can not fill their refrigerator. If this were the case (and statistics are not on your side here), the issue is too many financial obligations/appetites for non food products.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=CA renter][quote=sdrealtor]Looking around SoCal I see very few poor people. I grew up near and spent alot of time in Camden NJ growing up and worked in Newark NJ. That is poor like nothing I have seen around here. Boarded up homes, no windows, no heat and sometimes not running water in frigid temparatures and searing heat/humidity. I have been in some of their homes too. CAR grew up and spent essentially her whole life in SoCal. I doubt she has ever been exposed to true poverty.

BTW, all those kids in Camden still seem to be able to afford Air Jordans (or whatever the cool shoes are now), iPods, Cell Phones and mCDonalds all the time.[/quote]

Right. Poor people don’t exist in Los Angeles. Nope, no poor people there![/quote]

CAR
Not anywhere close to where you grew up and even then rarely on the levels on back east. As for SD there is very little real poverty outside of the illegals. You know those people you loathe so much and want to keep out of our fair city.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]FWIW, I’ve lived in and spent significant amounts of time in other countries, and spent a lot of time traveling as well. Not sure where you got the idea that I never left the state.[/quote]

I said you spent essentially your whole life in Socal not that you never left it. Going on vacation to Costa Rica is not living amongst true poverty on a day to day basis. When have you ever truly been exposed to real poverty?

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]When did Rancho Santa Fe become its own country?[/quote]

Why does any political border matter?

[quote][…] you would probably feel relatively “poor.”[/quote]

Why does it matter if somebody “feels” poor? Are you saying we should base tax policy on those who “feel” poor?

Or should be base tax policy on those who are poor?

[an]

[quote=pri_dk]Why does it matter if somebody “feels” poor? Are you saying we should base tax policy on those who “feel” poor?

Or should be base tax policy on those who are poor?[/quote]
I’m sure all those people who are upside down in million $ homes feel pretty poor too.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]those who have decimated manufacturing in this country[/quote]

Decimated? You could not be more wrong.

The US is the largest manufacturer in the world. For decades, manufacturing has grown within the US and has consistently grown at the same pace as the rest of the world.

The U.S. share of world manufacturing output was amazingly constant between 1970 and the early part of this decade […]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/246484-the-u-s-is-still-the-world-s-top-manufacturer

[quote]BTW, do you know **why** we turned against Russia? Figure that out […][/quote]

Help me figure it out…

Is it because the USSR was killing millions of it’s own citizens through famine, brutal prisons, and outright execution?

Is it because the USSR seized all private property? (just paid cash for a house near the coast? It belongs to the state now!)

Is it because the USSR sized Central Asia, invaded half of Europe and then never gave up control?

Is it because the USSR outlawed free speech, free press, and the free practice of religion?

Here ya go:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/2010/07/100624_doc_useful_idiots_lenin.shtml

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