Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › Do you feel the economy getting better?
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February 9, 2012 at 9:27 AM #737619February 9, 2012 at 9:43 AM #737621
CoronitaParticipantRemember I made the statement a few weeks back about how if the dow breaks 12,500 and stays there, people would be happier and you won’t hear much from the OWS protestors again?
Well? Was I right?
The headlines aren’t screaming about OWS anymore, are they? No sir, everyone’s talking about Greece (which no one really cares about anymore, even as the austerity measures pass today), and about the pending Facebook IPO and the election headlines…
OWS is dead.
Turn on the credit spigots again, and we’ll be fine 🙁
February 9, 2012 at 11:00 AM #737626sdduuuude
Participantpoorgrad student –
When I first read your post I thought it said “bullshit” instead of “bullish” and I was going to say – it’s alot more than two.
February 9, 2012 at 11:18 AM #737629Arraya
ParticipantIs calling for the collapse of capitalism bearish or bullish?
February 9, 2012 at 1:01 PM #737638paramount
ParticipantThe Baltic Dry Index is dropping like a rock and currently at an all-time low.
February 9, 2012 at 1:14 PM #737639The-Shoveler
ParticipantThe answer isn’t quite that simple. For one thing, the BDI can be very volatile – much more so than the economy overall. Previous massive drops in the index haven’t always resulted in a re-run of the Great Depression.
That’s because the BDI isn’t just about transport demand. It’s also about transport supply. Remember, the BDI measures the cost of hiring space on a ship. So if you double the number of ships, then demand for raw materials could remain static and perfectly healthy. But shipping rates, and therefore the BDI, would (in theory) fall in half.
And the fact is that right now, there are far too many ships in the world.
Prior to 2008, when the global economy seemed to be booming, dry bulk ship owners got rather over-excited. They convinced themselves that the good times would last for several more years. So – pretty much all at the same time – they placed lots of orders for ships.
Many of those vessels have now been completed and are becoming available for hire. Extra shipping space equivalent to 23% of the existing fleet is due to be delivered this year, according to Macquarie Research. That’s “too much capacity in the face of more modest growth of trade volumes”.
In other words, it’s no great surprise the BDI has fallen back. What’s more, says Credit Suisse, there’ll be no respite from the oversupply of dry bulk ships until next year at the very earliest. Even then, the existing fleet will still grow by 9% as new ships are delivered. That could still be tough for the market to absorb.February 9, 2012 at 2:06 PM #737644sdrealtor
Participant[quote=flu]Remember I made the statement a few weeks back about how if the dow breaks 12,500 and stays there, people would be happier and you won’t hear much from the OWS protestors again?
Well? Was I right?
The headlines aren’t screaming about OWS anymore, are they? No sir, everyone’s talking about Greece (which no one really cares about anymore, even as the austerity measures pass today), and about the pending Facebook IPO and the election headlines…
OWS is dead.
Turn on the credit spigots again, and we’ll be fine :([/quote]
Given my sons current endeavors as a drummer I’m ready to start the OFH campaign. So whats for dinner when I occupy FLU’s house?
February 9, 2012 at 3:20 PM #737648SK in CV
Participant[quote=sdrealtor]
Given my sons current endeavors as a drummer I’m ready to start the OFH campaign. So whats for dinner when I occupy FLU’s house?[/quote]I know this is partly a joke….but I have to share my experience with having a teenage musician. My son decided he wanted to play guitar when he was about 12. By a year later he had a band. We had the most ridiculous addition that had been made to our house, a room above the back yard, about 12 feet by almost the entire length of the house, probably close to 40 feet. Entrance was through a sliding glass door from the master bedroom. Upstairs. That became the music room. And for 5 years, at least 2 or 3 times a week, there were 2-6 kids in there making noise. Always had a drum kit set up. The old hammond organ. Two or three guitars, amps, wires. And kids.
It was annoying sometimes. The music sucked. Punk. Had to clear them out sometimes at night. Hard to take a nap on the weekends. They ate and ate and ate. But my son was always home. I always knew where he was.
I don’t know how old your son is. But there is an upside to being the cool parent who lets the band practice at their house. Well worth the annoyances.
February 9, 2012 at 3:39 PM #737650ParticipantI appreciate that and am a bigtime music lover who still attends several big concerts a year. I’d love for him to have a band and the garage is waiting.
February 9, 2012 at 3:58 PM #737652ParticipantWell here is something for everyone maybe
A Stimulated economy (a lot of people getting 2000 dollar checks soon).
And finally maybe a wave of foreclosures (we will see I guess)
All brought via the settlement signed today,February 9, 2012 at 4:30 PM #737653Participant[quote=flu]Remember I made the statement a few weeks back about how if the dow breaks 12,500 and stays there, people would be happier and you won’t hear much from the OWS protestors again?
Well? Was I right?
The headlines aren’t screaming about OWS anymore, are they? No sir, everyone’s talking about Greece (which no one really cares about anymore, even as the austerity measures pass today), and about the pending Facebook IPO and the election headlines…
OWS is dead.
:([/quote]
No attention from the MSM, sure – dead? From all accounts it’s bigger and more motivated than ever – though, changing form and global. I highly doubt the completely manufactured equities bubble will hold for long.
I’ll repeat;
” * The financial model of growth in the developed world has run its course and financial assets will be significantly reduced in value over the next few years.
* Systematic intermittent deleveraging will lead to persistently high unemployment and widespread poverty.
* Societal institutions or systems that rely on financial stability will continue to deteriorate at an accelerating pace (education, healthcare, etc.).
* States running large fiscal deficits to support their private economies will quickly slide into insolvency and default on ambitious promises to their citizens.
* Housing, food and energy will become unaffordable for millions of people as wealth in the form of revenues, investments and savings is rapidly destroyed, and short-term speculative plays in the commodity space fueled by central bank liquidity will only make this dynamic worse.
And finally,
* Political institutions or systems that have exercised power during the unprecedented financial boom will come under an equally unprecedented societal pressure and will most likely be overhauled or completely dismantled”
This is the early state of the revolution. Very early. OWS is just a thought convention at this point and coalescing place for all activist.
Ahhh, late-stage capitalism is going to be fun
http://occupywallst.org/article/election-or-not-revolutionary-wave-grows/
In a world devastated by poverty, austerity cuts, and bank foreclosures, community action like Occupy Oakland’s recent attempt to turn a derelict building into a vibrant social center for the needs of the 99% should be applauded. Instead, the agents of the 1%, in this case the Oakland police – already under investigation for excessive force – once again attacked. Using flash bang grenades, projectiles, batons, tear-gas, and other weapons, police arrested over 400, bringing total US Occupy-related arrests to over 6,300. As the Occupy Oakland Media Committee said:
“With all the problems in our city, should preventing activists from putting a vacant building to better use be their highest priority? Was it worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars they spent?”
Earlier this month, we celebrated 2011 and declared 2012 would be even bigger. One month in, we’re keeping our word, but the corporate media increasingly dismiss Occupy Wall Street as a dying movement. Covering events in Oakland (“Police use teargas on Occupy Oakland protesters”), the Guardian described OWS as “largely dormant lately.” The Washington Post stated that the Oakland protest had broken the “lull” in OWS.
But we aren’t dormant; we’re escalating. The only lull has been in the media coverage of our continuing struggle to create a more just world for all.
Let’s take a closer look by examining a few of the major Occupy stories and actions of the past month that the corporate media would rather dismiss than cover by debunking their myths about OWS…
Battle of Oakland
*Yes some protesters were hamming it up for the camera when the police were “kettling” them. Though, overall a well-produced “on-the-ground” piece
February 10, 2012 at 9:25 AM #737686poorgradstudent
Participant[quote=flu]OWS is dead.[/quote]
Well, Occupy Oakland sure as heck isn’t dead, although it’s more about police brutality and abuses at this point than it is about economic equality.The Occupy movement made a conscious decision to change strategies after the American public grew tired of them. Some Occupy San Diego folks tried to citizens arrest the mayor after the whole Dragonfly/Qualcomm debacle. The national news media has moved on, but I do expect OWS to be in the news again once the Republicans pick their nominee and the General election really picks up.
February 10, 2012 at 9:31 AM #737689CoronitaParticipant[quote=Arraya]
No attention from the MSM, sure – dead? From all accounts it’s bigger and more motivated than ever – though, changing form and global. I highly doubt the completely manufactured equities bubble will hold for long.
I’ll repeat;
” * The financial model of growth in the developed world has run its course and financial assets will be significantly reduced in value over the next few years.
* Systematic intermittent deleveraging will lead to persistently high unemployment and widespread poverty.
* Societal institutions or systems that rely on financial stability will continue to deteriorate at an accelerating pace (education, healthcare, etc.).
* States running large fiscal deficits to support their private economies will quickly slide into insolvency and default on ambitious promises to their citizens.
* Housing, food and energy will become unaffordable for millions of people as wealth in the form of revenues, investments and savings is rapidly destroyed, and short-term speculative plays in the commodity space fueled by central bank liquidity will only make this dynamic worse.
And finally,
* Political institutions or systems that have exercised power during the unprecedented financial boom will come under an equally unprecedented societal pressure and will most likely be overhauled or completely dismantled”
This is the early state of the revolution. Very early. OWS is just a thought convention at this point and coalescing place for all activist.
Ahhh, late-stage capitalism is going to be fun
http://occupywallst.org/article/election-or-not-revolutionary-wave-grows/
In a world devastated by poverty, austerity cuts, and bank foreclosures, community action like Occupy Oakland’s recent attempt to turn a derelict building into a vibrant social center for the needs of the 99% should be applauded. Instead, the agents of the 1%, in this case the Oakland police – already under investigation for excessive force – once again attacked. Using flash bang grenades, projectiles, batons, tear-gas, and other weapons, police arrested over 400, bringing total US Occupy-related arrests to over 6,300. As the Occupy Oakland Media Committee said:
“With all the problems in our city, should preventing activists from putting a vacant building to better use be their highest priority? Was it worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars they spent?”
Earlier this month, we celebrated 2011 and declared 2012 would be even bigger. One month in, we’re keeping our word, but the corporate media increasingly dismiss Occupy Wall Street as a dying movement. Covering events in Oakland (“Police use teargas on Occupy Oakland protesters”), the Guardian described OWS as “largely dormant lately.” The Washington Post stated that the Oakland protest had broken the “lull” in OWS.
But we aren’t dormant; we’re escalating. The only lull has been in the media coverage of our continuing struggle to create a more just world for all.
Let’s take a closer look by examining a few of the major Occupy stories and actions of the past month that the corporate media would rather dismiss than cover by debunking their myths about OWS…
Battle of Oakland
*Yes some protesters were hamming it up for the camera when the police were “kettling” them. Though, overall a well-produced “on-the-ground” piece[/quote]
Arraya,
That’s exactly the point I’m making though. Without MSM covering it, no one else is gonna give a crap. No audience, no movement…
February 10, 2012 at 10:49 AM #737693outtamojo
ParticipantKaiser Center- I was about 6 years old when me and my brothers got jumped by about 15 black dudes one weekend. I grew up on Oakland, rode AC transit everywhere, at all hours. That said, the idiots in the video protesting look nothing like the Oakland I knew. They look like out of towners using Oakland as their playground – why? Why pick on a poor city likely to not have many 1 percenters? Why
cause so much physical and monetary damage to a city that cannot afford it? Why not go to Wall ST. or at least the finacial district in San Francisco? A big F-you to all the Ocuppy Oaklanders- you all deserve a baton beating for being so stupid in bringing these protests to Oakland.February 10, 2012 at 11:11 AM #737688CoronitaParticipant[quote=poorgradstudent][quote=flu]OWS is dead.[/quote]
Well, Occupy Oakland sure as heck isn’t dead, although it’s more about police brutality and abuses at this point than it is about economic equality.The Occupy movement made a conscious decision to change strategies after the American public grew tired of them. Some Occupy San Diego folks tried to citizens arrest the mayor after the whole Dragonfly/Qualcomm debacle. The national news media has moved on, but I do expect OWS to be in the news again once the Republicans pick their nominee and the General election really picks up.[/quote]
Oakland is oakland…. They’ll riot for any reasons.
Examples:
Raiders lose, they riot.
Radiers win, they riot. -
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