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spdrun.
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June 30, 2012 at 10:49 AM #746897June 30, 2012 at 10:57 AM #746898
spdrun
ParticipantLastly, I’m from NYC. Over 40% of the population is foreign born, with some 5-6% being illegal. Most immigrants, legal OR illegal, are hard working, decent people. I don’t see it as a huge problem at least from my perspective.
June 30, 2012 at 11:21 AM #746899Dougie944
ParticipantAnyone that gets through, gets through is not much of a policy for the BP. Kind of figured as much.
The rest of your solution is nothing new, but is in the hands of the politicians. I earlier stated that the incentive for illegal aliens should be taken away.
I believe that I stated your initial stop was not random as that is the definition of the checkpoint. Everyone approaches and is “seized” (you and I would probably refer to it as detained, SC uses the word seized) whether or not they stop or roll through at the direction of the agent.
I find it hard to believe, even though you assert otherwise, that you do not project a demeanor that wants to engage. I have never pulled up to the agent and been held longer than 20 seconds.
I agree with you that the checkpoints are not ideal. I just do not think that you properly weigh all the factors that the SC figured in when ruling that immigration checkpoints are legal. Again, I point out that in their rulings, you can clearly see that much thought was given towards finding the solution that is the least intrusive into your Rights.
June 30, 2012 at 11:35 AM #746900ParticipantOther than my citizenship or whether I’m carrying contraband, that’s correct. I have no desire to engage some armed reject in conversation. And will continue to refuse to do so, even if it does take extra time. I’m not committing a crime by traveling in my own country, and I resent anyone that treats me as a suspect because I choose to travel.
I may not hurt the agents, but I will indirectly increase the waiting time at the checkpoint if they make me wait. The less convenient the checkpoints become, the more Americans will start to pressure Congress into coming up with a REASONABLE solution that doesn’t inconvenience American citizens.
Removing the incentive to come here illegally and/or smuggle drugs will go a long way. In fact, the latter is already happening — more and more states are moving towards decriminalization or outright legalization. And as time goes on, this change of opinion will have an effect on the numbskulls in DC as well.
Lastly, just because it’s been approved by the Supreme Court doesn’t make it OK. Slavery was once approved by the courts as well.
June 30, 2012 at 3:40 PM #746914mike92104
ParticipantI agree with spdrun. I grew up in El Paso, so I have had to deal with checkpoints for my entire life. It used to be that you would roll into the checkpoint and say “American” and be sent on your way. Now, every time I go through, my license plates are photographed and cataloged, a dog is run around the car, and It seems like I have to give my life’s story to the officer to get through.
The supreme court’s ruling about the constitutionality of the checkpoints only refer to their use to check the immigration status of individuals going through. The problem is that these days the checkpoints are used as a dragnet to catch any and all sorts of illegal activity. The checkpoint on the 8 coming back into San Diego actually has a sign boasting about how many arrests they’ve made and the different kinds of violations that were involved.
June 30, 2012 at 3:55 PM #746916Participant[quote=mike92104]I agree with spdrun. I grew up in El Paso, so I have had to deal with checkpoints for my entire life. It used to be that you would roll into the checkpoint and say “American” and be sent on your way. Now, every time I go through, my license plates are photographed and cataloged, a dog is run around the car, and It seems like I have to give my life’s story to the officer to get through.[/quote]
You don’t have to give them any story, and they still have to let you through. They like to think they can bully you into telling your life’s story.
Where are you coming from? East
Going to? West
EtcJune 30, 2012 at 5:15 PM #746925Anonymous
Guest[quote=spdrun]Even so, I’ll stand on my rights, as is my DUTY as an American citizen.
And yes, I think that people who choose to follow orders to harass innocent people with personal questions that have no bearing on whether they’re committing a crime, are pigs. “Just doing a job” is no excuse at all. They’re free to get different jobs. Prostitution and burger-flipping are good options if they can’t do anything else useful.[/quote]
What is your job sdprun, professional douchebag? Seriously you should take some medication for your paranoia
June 30, 2012 at 5:38 PM #746926ParticipantMy family left a dictatorship to get away from exactly the kind of petty harassment that the US is now starting to provide in the name of “the war on drugs/terror/illegal immigration.”
And yes, I’m somewhat of a d-bag to people who are d-bags to me. And I consider an armed person whom I don’t know asking me personal questions to be highly douchy. So if I’m a d-bag in that respect, I’m proud of it.
As to medication, those who blindly listen to authority and don’t question it are already on some medication — mmmmmm, Kool-Aid…
I’m not actually paranoid that someone will use my itinerary against me. However, I feel that I should NOT need to account for my actions or whereabouts, so long as they are legal, in the US.
June 30, 2012 at 6:09 PM #746927Guest[quote=spdrun]My family left a dictatorship to get away from exactly the kind of petty harassment that the US is now starting to provide in the name of “the war on drugs/terror/illegal immigration.”
And yes, I’m somewhat of a d-bag to people who are d-bags to me. And I consider an armed person whom I don’t know asking me personal questions to be highly douchy. So if I’m a d-bag in that respect, I’m proud of it.
As to medication, those who blindly listen to authority and don’t question it are already on some medication — mmmmmm, Kool-Aid…
I’m not actually paranoid that someone will use my itinerary against me. However, I feel that I should NOT need to account for my actions or whereabouts, so long as they are legal, in the US.[/quote]
Well in generaly I don’t disagree with your principles but in life you have to choose your battles. If you insist on being a D-bag to the government officers at checkpoint, that is your business. But don’t come whining to us about how painful it was because your not gonna get any smpathy. I think you are a one man choir on this subject.
June 30, 2012 at 6:29 PM #746928ParticipantIs politely refusing to answer questions that have questionable legality to begin with “being a D-bag,” or is it good sense? You used the term “D-bag” initially, not me.
So long as you stay polite, civil, but firm, it’s a battle worth fighting. Rights should NOT be easily thrown away. And I’m FAR from a one-man choir on this issue. A lot of people are enraged about the same thing, and rightly so:
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=vid&hl=en&q=border+patrol+internal+checkpoint
Note that the videos weren’t taken to highlight the exemplary conduct of the Border Patrol. 🙂
June 30, 2012 at 8:18 PM #746933Participant[quote=deadzone][quote=spdrun]Even so, I’ll stand on my rights, as is my DUTY as an American citizen.
And yes, I think that people who choose to follow orders to harass innocent people with personal questions that have no bearing on whether they’re committing a crime, are pigs. “Just doing a job” is no excuse at all. They’re free to get different jobs. Prostitution and burger-flipping are good options if they can’t do anything else useful.[/quote]
What is your job sdprun, professional douchebag? Seriously you should take some medication for your paranoia[/quote]
What’s your job Deadzone? Border Patrol Agent?
June 30, 2012 at 8:41 PM #746934ParticipantLet me relate a personal story. I was traveling to see my family back in El Paso. I was driving my Jeep CJ5 without the top or even the doors allowing anyone to see nearly every inch of my vehicle without any effort. I was stopped at a checkpoint just west of Gila Bend. I was asked the usual questions about where I was going, where I was coming from, etc. I answered them politely as I always have. I was then asked to pull off to the side for a secondary inspection. They ran a drug dog around my vehicle which turned up nothing,and then they decided to frisk me. This has never happened to me before, but I complied only because I didn’t want to be detained any longer than I needed to be. I still had a long way to drive. They didn’t find anything and finally let me go. Would you at least consider this to be a random search that doesn’t pass the 4th amendment muster? I do.
Again, the checkpoints used to be a means of checking your immigration or citizen status. Now they are used as a dragnet to search anyone they see fit for any violation.
June 30, 2012 at 8:57 PM #746935ParticipantJune 30, 2012 at 10:22 PM #746939sdrealtor
ParticipantI have officially been in Arizona for 4 days. Not Phoenix. I am deep and I mean deep in the heart of Mormon strongholds. Snowflake and St John are big cities compared to where I am. Just got back from a ride on a redneck roller coaster (ie the back of a pickup racing down back country dirt roads). I have seen lots of inbreeding. Dental voids abound. Mitt is god. Swap meets are good places to find chain saws, seized engines, pit bulls, rifles and saddles. I haven’t seen a single border patrol agent or cop car. Not a one. I tried speeding..no takers. Open adult beverages…no takers. Blasting rap music…notakers. I even wore my Obama Hope t shirt…still no takers.
What am I doing wrong? No governmental types want to assail my rights.
Why can’t I be a douchebag like sdprun? Should I be pumping my breaks to annoy tailgaters? I don’t get it. This shit is supposed to be happening to me.
Looking for trouble but not finding it
sdr[img_assist|nid=16334|title=I’m from California and I won’t answer your questions|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=450|height=300]
June 30, 2012 at 10:36 PM #746942Guest[quote=mike92104]Again, the checkpoints used to be a means of checking your immigration or citizen status. Now they are used as a dragnet to search anyone they see fit for any violation.[/quote]
What’s the problem with that? As a citizen I am happy to know they are pulling dirt bags off the street who are driving drunk, no license/insurance, etc. I assume you guys are the same ACLU types who are against the checkpoints in Escondido? Of course in Escondido if they (the police) find an illegal they can’t do anything with them except impound their car since California is basically a “sanctuary” state.
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