- This topic has 136 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 9 months ago by
spdrun.
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June 27, 2012 at 10:08 PM #746688June 27, 2012 at 10:15 PM #746689
paramount
Participant[quote=spdrun]
I have no problem with BORDER checks at the border. I do have a problem with random checks inside the US. I have an even bigger problem with probing questions about things that are none of the business of the people asking them, and have no relation to whether I’m carrying drugs, have a trunk full of “extreme Southerners,” or am an American citizen.[/quote]
Exactly. These are suspicion-less and illegal/unconstitutional interior checkpoints.
June 27, 2012 at 11:57 PM #746692scaredyclassic
Participanton the other hand, there is something to be said for not provoking the anger of people in power.
I was at a bat mitzvah recently where the reading was from Numbers, involving Korath challnging the authority of Moses. Why, asks Korath, do you get to be in charge? Moses basically says, well, korath, if I’m not supposed to be in charge, then you will live a normal life. But if I’m supposed to be in charge, something funky is going to happen. Soon. Then the earth opens up and swallows Korath and his family and his followers plus all their livestock for good measure. Clearly, Moses was meant to lead.
I think the lesson i took away from this was that while questioning authority is a catchy slogan that sold a lot of buttons, and it is theoretically good to stand up to authority if you think you’re right, there is some actual risk to doing so, including but not limited to being swalleowed up by the earth, and potentially even with your livestock, and sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, whatever that means.
June 28, 2012 at 7:07 AM #746696spdrun
ParticipantIf you’re comparing the current assclowns in power and their minions to Moses, G-d might smite you for your impudence 🙂
And sometimes, if you take footage/audio of authority violating the law and publicize it, they may end up being swallowed up by the earth. Or at least getting fired without pension.
June 28, 2012 at 9:05 AM #746701Anonymous
Guest[quote=paramount][quote=spdrun]
I have no problem with BORDER checks at the border. I do have a problem with random checks inside the US. I have an even bigger problem with probing questions about things that are none of the business of the people asking them, and have no relation to whether I’m carrying drugs, have a trunk full of “extreme Southerners,” or am an American citizen.[/quote]
Exactly. These are suspicion-less and illegal/unconstitutional interior checkpoints.[/quote]
Which questions did they ask you that had nothing to do with drugs, contraband, etc? You said they asked you where you were going, what you were doing in California, etc. Those are valid, relevant questions. Sounds to me that you were just being a dick to the officer and he gave you a hard time in return.
June 28, 2012 at 9:15 AM #746703ParticipantIf I’m taking a trip in my own country, I shouldn’t have to justify this trip to a government official or give him my itenarary (which was flexible anyway since I was going by car, and that particular trip was mainly to see friends, go camping, and sightsee). Being a d–k? Sorry no. I was perfectly polite. I just chose not to answer questions that were none of his business.
If they wanted to look for drugs and/or people, they were welcome to walk a dog around the car. Did they really expect me to say: “I’m in California for a day to pick up 20 kg of heroin and bring it to Phoenix?”
Blindly obedient cop-huggers are why this country is going downhill.
June 28, 2012 at 9:16 AM #746704CDMA ENG
Participant[quote=deadzone][quote=paramount][quote=spdrun]
I have no problem with BORDER checks at the border. I do have a problem with random checks inside the US. I have an even bigger problem with probing questions about things that are none of the business of the people asking them, and have no relation to whether I’m carrying drugs, have a trunk full of “extreme Southerners,” or am an American citizen.[/quote]
Exactly. These are suspicion-less and illegal/unconstitutional interior checkpoints.[/quote]
Which questions did they ask you that had nothing to do with drugs, contraband, etc? You said they asked you where you were going, what you were doing in California, etc. Those are valid, relevant questions. Sounds to me that you were just being a dick to the officer and he gave you a hard time in return.[/quote]
Actually they are not illegal searches. Why? Because car travel is not a right. It’s a privilage. They can stop your car all day long… Becuase its s privilege. However they need reasonable cause to search your car because its personal property. That is where you can flatly refuse.
CE
CEJune 28, 2012 at 9:40 AM #746706Participant^^^
DRIVING is a privilege. If they establish (via dog perhaps) that I’m not carrying any contraband, and my driver’s license is valid, they can’t detain me until I’ve given them a complete “flight plan” and my life’s story.
That would be like a cop pulling me over for no reason at all: “where are you going? how long are you staying there? what is the address that you’re staying over the weekend? are you planning to speed tomorrow? have you run any red lights today?”
Not that I’m worried, but giving my itinerary to a stranger is actually borderline dangerous. They had the address on my license. Do I really want a stranger who knows my address to also know how long my apartment might be vacant?
This is the US, not a police state where I have to justify my actions to some power-hungry swine in a uniform.
June 28, 2012 at 9:55 AM #746709Hobie
Participant[quote=spdrun]Story to tell — [/quote]
I think this was caught on tape 🙂
June 28, 2012 at 10:04 AM #746710ParticipantThis didn’t have to do with a ticket or money. This had to do with my rights, and I remained calm while refusing to answer. It’s pretty sad how many Americans willingly accept the “they’re keeping us safe”/”they’re just doing their jobs” excuse when faced with increased restrictions. Lastly, if the border was properly policed, the interior checkpoints wouldn’t be needed.
PS – I heard about the video you posted. Apparently totally fake. The cop had a reputation for being an ass, and he staged it with a friend on his car’s camera to “prove” “how nice a guy” he was to his superiors, who were planning to fire his sorry butt.
June 28, 2012 at 10:39 AM #746713Guest[quote=spdrun]^^^
DRIVING is a privilege. If they establish (via dog perhaps) that I’m not carrying any contraband, and my driver’s license is valid, they can’t detain me until I’ve given them a complete “flight plan” and my life’s story.
That would be like a cop pulling me over for no reason at all: “where are you going? how long are you staying there? what is the address that you’re staying over the weekend? are you planning to speed tomorrow? have you run any red lights today?”
Not that I’m worried, but giving my itinerary to a stranger is actually borderline dangerous. They had the address on my license. Do I really want a stranger who knows my address to also know how long my apartment might be vacant?
This is the US, not a police state where I have to justify my actions to some power-hungry swine in a uniform.[/quote]
Dude, you really hate Police and government officials. What did they ever do to you? Sounds like an irrational paranoia like my step-dad who won’t go anywhere without guns in his car. Yet, in his entire life he as never been robbed, mugged, attacked, etc. What is he so afraid of??
June 28, 2012 at 10:50 AM #746714GuestBack to the original topic, so given that Police do stop people in cars for a variety of mostly legitimate reasons (via DUI checkpoints, missing license plates, speeding, etc.), why is it so controversial that they should be able to arrest someone for suspicion of being in the country illegally?
The police check for drivers license and registration on every traffic stop. They enter the into their database to check on criminal history of the individual. There are pretty obvious tell tale signs that somebody is not a legal resident, most notably NO DRIVERS LICENSE. Another obvious sign is they CAN’T SPEAK ENGLISH. Even more obvious, don’t have ID AND Can’t speak english. Is that not reason enough to be suspicious? And guess what, this has nothing to do with race or color of skin.
June 28, 2012 at 11:47 AM #746724bearishgurl
Participant[quote=spdrun]This didn’t have to do with a ticket or money. This had to do with my rights, and I remained calm while refusing to answer. It’s pretty sad how many Americans willingly accept the “they’re keeping us safe”/”they’re just doing their jobs” excuse when faced with increased restrictions. Lastly, if the border was properly policed, the interior checkpoints wouldn’t be needed.[/quote]
I agree with all of this. But usually I have a loaded trunk, kid and/or dog with me in the 100+ deg heat and reservations to spend the night somewhere in NM or El Paso. Both are long drives from SD. I need to get down the road and can’t fvck around for hours next to these minions’ “secondary” trailer drinking their “free” water while I d!ck around with expounding my “constitutional rights” to them. In one case, I was towing a small trailer:
http://piggington.com/why_is_a_doper_snorting_bath_salts_my_problem
In my case, traveling thru AriDzona is necessary to reach my destinations so I must accept reality, whatever that may be.
As children, we used to stand on the “hump” in the backseat of our parents’ cars and crane our necks, blocking the rear-view mirror on road trips, then hang our bare feet out the windows while counting oil pumps and looking for different license plates. There were no seat belts in cars and a LOT of interior room. Babies slept in thin nylon beds on the rear floorboards or the rear windshield compartment of a Barracuda (if it was cooler weather). It was legal all over the US to carry around a pickup-bed-load of people with varying shades of skin color, along with a giant thermos or sodas on dry ice. Cars were very heavy and there wasn’t the amount of commercial truck traffic on the road then as there is today. Nor were there very many interstate highways.
[img_assist|nid=16380|title=Dad’s road machine|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=67]
Those were the “free and easy” glory days of US road travel, now gone forever :=[
June 28, 2012 at 12:42 PM #746729briansd1
Guestdeadzone, point me to a law that says that undocumented presence in the USA is illegal.
Conservatives are so good with the Constitution and the law so, now, prove it.
[quote=deadzone] Another obvious sign is they CAN’T SPEAK ENGLISH. [/quote]
Why is that so obvious? Plenty of American citizens speak only broken English.
June 28, 2012 at 12:53 PM #746731Guest[quote=briansd1]deadzone, point me to a law that says that undocumented presence in the USA is illegal.
Conservatives are so good with the Constitution and the law so, now, prove it.
[quote=deadzone] Another obvious sign is they CAN’T SPEAK ENGLISH. [/quote]
Why is that so obvious? Plenty of American citizens speak only broken English.[/quote]
Non-US citizens are required to carry documentation by law. I don’t need to prove that to you. Everyone is required to carry driver’s license while operating a vehicle.
As regards to English, for one thing there is a difference between broken English and no English. Do you actually know any US citizens who are not capable of answering basic questions in English? I didn’t think so. Last time I checked you had to pass an English test as part of Naturalization. Although there are exceptions in extreme cases, inabability to speak basic English is a sure give-away that the person is not a US citizen.
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