Church & State

[barnaby33]

So in essence you equate the crosses removal with its destruction? Why is that. Couldn’t the cross be moved to another location and be just as relevant, or must it be there, it its origonal place to have meaning? Again we come back to the intent of the cross.

If its just a war memorial, then it probably should be a religious endorsement.

If its an important part of local history, tell me how other than in a religious context this is so? I certainly don’t know of any such history, not that I claim expertise.

If it is as I suspect a symbol of Christian domination of this land, then that sucker has to come down no question about it. Just because in the past religious bigotry was acceptable doesn’t mean it is so now. I feel the cross is intertwined with the history of “No Jews need apply in La Jolla,” though in a tangential way.

Religious tyranny is the same whether its Christian, Jewish or Muslim, or Atheist as I happen to be.

This is NOT a Christian land, its a secular land which happens to have a majority of Christians. I suspect that is the fundamental disagreement that we will never solve. If you view this nation as a place that is fundamentally Christian and just happens to be tolerant of others, of course your religious symbols should be pre-eminant. On the other hand, you could view this as a secular nation that gives favor to no religion; tolerates most if not all of them and treats them equally.

There is definitely an argument to be made to respect our hertiage, Judeo/Christian and otherwise. Its just wiser in my opinion to honor that heritage by minimising the impact of religion on public life.

Josh

[PD]

The cross has been there for fifty years and crosses have stood at that site for nearly one hundred years. Like I said, let the people decide. I do, however, think no government funds should go the upkeep of the cross.
Josh, I wonder if you would be so opposed to it if you were not an atheist?
While I went to a Methodist church as a child, I am not religious. In fact, I’m much like Carl Sagan. I do not want to believe, I want to know. I call myself agnostic but am probably closer to being an atheist. I will not go so far as to say that I know there is no God because I do not think that there is any proof that he does not exist. We do not have all the answers.
Live and let live. Leave the cross alone.

[PerryChase]

ybc, I too like Barack Obama. He’s definitely very charismatic and a rising star in politics.

It’s much better listening to his speeches in MP3 than to read them.

[barnaby33]

Fair enough. The controversy won’t be solved here, besides I like the fact that this has stayed civil.

Josh

[JES]

Yes, this has been a good discussion and like you said it will not be solved here. One thing I’ve learned from this is that I have fairly quickly reached my limit of knowledge on the matter and I plan to read a few books and do more research since it is such an interesting subject.

PD: There is a good book out there called The Case for Christ that may interest you. It was written by a Yale educated lawyer and former atheist Lee Strobel. He also wrote the follow-on book A Case for Faith. He approaches the topic of Christianity and faith in a very methodical and lawyer-like manner, and debates all of the common arguments you hear against Jesus and Christianity. Since he is now a Christian, there may be a certain amount of bias towards Christianity in his analysis, but overall he does a better job than anyone at presenting both sides of the debate, approaching it as a skeptic and providing answers other than ‘just have faith.’

[Anonymous]

Obama is like B.J. Clinton: mellifluous and sounds good, but when you evaluate the content, empty.

[ybc]

JG – what do you define as “content”, and by your standard, whose speech is not empty?

Also, since you were in the Navy, how do you feel about the use of military right now in Iraq? Is the military stretched too thin rihgt now? If I may ask.

PerryChase — Thanks for pointing out that MP3 of Obama’s speeches are available.

[Author]

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