Bitcoin

[no_such_reality]

[quote=paramount]
Humans are evolving to a new higher enlightened level of consciousness, and in this Brave New World Bitcoin fits perfectly. The dollar doesn’t.[/quote]

ROFLMAO

[paramount]

Bitcoin (sign: BitcoinSign.svg; code: BTC or XBT[1]) is a peer-to-peer digital currency that functions without the intermediation of a central authority.[2] The concept was introduced in a 2008 paper by a pseudonymous developer known as “Satoshi Nakamoto”.[3]
Bitcoin has been called a cryptocurrency because it is decentralized and uses cryptography to control transactions and prevent double-spending, a problem for digital currencies.[2] Once validated, every individual transaction is permanently recorded in a public ledger known as the blockchain.[2] Payment processing is done by a network of private computers often specially tailored to this task.[4] The operators of these computers, known as “miners”, are rewarded with transaction fees and newly minted Bitcoins. However, new bitcoins are created at an ever-decreasing rate.[2]

[no_such_reality]

[quote=afx114][quote=temeculaguy]Or maybe it’s just some guys who went to harvard and think that they are smarter than you and will get you to give them your money.[/quote]

Or maybe one could take the initiative to do some research and read up on the technology and how it works so that we can have an actual discussion on the pros/cons rather than a series of lazy dismissive comments?

A virtual currency is inevitable. It may be Bitcoin, or it may be some other technology. But the underlying fact is that our current systems are obsolete in today’s insta-economy. In 10 years we will laugh at having to wait 7 days for a wire transfer. By then we’ll feel about today’s banking the same way we now feel about sending a hand-written letter via the post office.[/quote]

That’s banking and not the currency. Your currency is already virtual. The simple fact is that most of the $ value of your tangible assets, stocks, 401K, is nothing more than bits.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=afx114][quote=temeculaguy]Or maybe it’s just some guys who went to harvard and think that they are smarter than you and will get you to give them your money.[/quote]

Or maybe one could take the initiative to do some research and read up on the technology and how it works so that we can have an actual discussion on the pros/cons rather than a series of lazy dismissive comments?

A virtual currency is inevitable. It may be Bitcoin, or it may be some other technology. But the underlying fact is that our current systems are obsolete in today’s insta-economy. In 10 years we will laugh at having to wait 7 days for a wire transfer. By then we’ll feel about today’s banking the same way we now feel about sending a hand-written letter via the post office.[/quote]

I did my research, I watched the facebook movie. Twice!

The lazy and dismissive comments were intentional, I’m dismissing bitcoin as nothing more than a fad with only money launderers as true customers. I can transfer money in seconds, online or in person, what does bitcoin do for me that doesn’t already exist with traditional currency. How does it offer international asset storage that gold doesn’t already offer? I am not a rare niche consumer, I’m mainstream and I have no need for it, nor do most people. It is more likely to not exist in ten years than to replace government currency. You buy it, I won’t and we will just have to wait and see how it turns out.

[afx114]

For the record and full disclosure, I don’t own any Bitcoins. And given that it just passed $1000 I probably won’t be owning any anytime soon.

What does it offer over traditional currency? I suppose I could just post a link to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths, but:

• Negligible transaction costs. For small businesses this can save them 3-5% on their bottom line by not having to pay merchant fees. These savings can be passed down to the consumer as well, for lower cost of items.
• Sending global remittances is much cheaper. Traditional wiring services charge upward of 10% and take days to process. Bitcoin is instant and costs less than 1%. Wire fees currently cost an estimated $400billion annually. This could be a big deal for immigrants sending money home
• Financial services for the world’s unbanked population. They may not have banks, but they have cellphones. Kenya, for example, is using a lot of Bitcoin.
• There are no chargebacks, so if you as a customer are due a refund, the merchant would need to issue it — versus today’s fraud-laden method where the consumer initiates the chargeback, whether it was founded or not.
• Accounts can’t be frozen. This is a feature not a bug, especially if you are a dissident in an oppressive regime. Or even if you are a dissident in a non-oppressive regime.

Regarding asset storage, you can print out a paper wallet or store it on a USB stick or hard drive and put it offline in a safe or deposit box. No different than gold… well, except that you can carry it in your pocket too if needed.

But the best benefit: easier to buy drugs and prostitutes.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Bitcoin is the greatest thing ever or that it will take over the world. It obviously has issues like any new thing does, but I’m not ready to write it off as a Ponzi scheme or the Friendster of finance either. As a h4x0r it kinda gives me a stiffy. I’d just like to hear some cogent arguments against it other than “it’s a ponzi scheme” or “it’s a fad” or “who cares?”

[The-Shoveler]

I wonder if there are any laws against counterfeit bitcoins ?

If someone emptied your bitcoin account do you have any recourse ?

[livinincali]

[quote=afx114]
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Bitcoin is the greatest thing ever or that it will take over the world. It obviously has issues like any new thing does, but I’m not ready to write it off as a Ponzi scheme or the Friendster of finance either. As a h4x0r it kinda gives me a stiffy. I’d just like to hear some cogent arguments against it other than “it’s a ponzi scheme” or “it’s a fad” or “who cares?”[/quote]

I think you provide the answer right here.

[quote]
For the record and full disclosure, I don’t own any Bitcoins. And given that it just passed $1000 I probably won’t be owning any anytime soon.
[/quote]

It’s too volatile in it’s price swings to operate as a currency. Essentially the bitcoin economy is in massive deflation right now. I.e. it used to cost 50 bit coins to buy a new car now it takes 20. Sometime in the future it will likely suffer massive inflation. It’s just incredibly hard to operate in an economy where the currency is subject to massive price swings.

[The-Shoveler]

Lets say you were able to get a copy of all the addresses etc.. of someone’s bitcoin account,
Then if that client was off line, you could conceivably spend those bitcoins (steal them in a word).

I don’t think they would send the FBI after you.

[outtamojo]

Is bitcoin something that can be corrupted with a few well-placed broken knee caps or horses heads?

[The-Shoveler]

CPU cycles spent hacking BitCoin would most likely be more profitable than mining at this point IMO

[afx114]

Andreessen Horowitz just invested $25mil in Coinbase

I like Chris Dixon’s take:

“One of the interesting things about Bitcoin is the contrast between how it is portrayed in the press and how it is understood by technologists. The press tends to portray Bitcoin as either a speculative bubble or a scheme for supporting criminal activity. In Silicon Valley, by contrast, Bitcoin is generally viewed as a profound technological breakthrough.”

Interesting he draws parallels to the HTTP/SMTP protocols. By themselves they are pretty useless — it is the apps built on top of them (the web / email) that make them valuable. The same is true with Bitcoin if you think of it as a protocol rather than as a currency or payment method.

I still think that people writing off Bitcoin as a scam or fad or pyramid scheme are missing the bigger picture. Looks like the big boys in Silicon Valley agree with me.

[livinincali]

[quote=afx114]Andreessen Horowitz just invested $25mil in Coinbase

I like Chris Dixon’s take:

“One of the interesting things about Bitcoin is the contrast between how it is portrayed in the press and how it is understood by technologists. The press tends to portray Bitcoin as either a speculative bubble or a scheme for supporting criminal activity. In Silicon Valley, by contrast, Bitcoin is generally viewed as a profound technological breakthrough.”

Interesting he draws parallels to the HTTP/SMTP protocols. By themselves they are pretty useless — it is the apps built on top of them (the web / email) that make them valuable. The same is true with Bitcoin if you think of it as a protocol rather than as a currency or payment method.

I still think that people writing off Bitcoin as a scam or fad or pyramid scheme are missing the bigger picture. Looks like the big boys in Silicon Valley agree with me.[/quote]

The underlying technology is interesting, but I still don’t think it can interrupt the credit card company translation fees because it doesn’t offer the protections that those transaction have. Nobody works for free so in order to be able to dispute erroneous transactions have recourse when you wallet gets lost of stolen you need a central payment processor that’s willing to handle those type of disputes. Bitcoin doesn’t do this, so yeah you can transact in bitcoins and avoid the transaction fees but realize when you get ripped off it’s permanent. There no middle man to help you. That’s why it’s been popular in the black market because you accept those risks when transacting in that market.

The processing power of completing a transaction is what bitcoin mining is, so are people who are providing the resources to complete transactions going to continue to do that if and when bitcoin mining gets too hard or bitcoin values get too low. Can you even transaction in bitcoins without bitcoin miners. My understanding is no but maybe you have more insight into that.

[jeff303]

Well looks like we just saw a major crash, almost 50% down overnight on news that a Chinese exchange would stop accepting new yuan deposits. Seems like the large reaction from just one exchange – especially considering they’re still doing withdrawals – is a sign of volatility.

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

[temeculaguy]

[quote=temeculaguy][quote=afx114][quote=temeculaguy]Or maybe it’s just some guys who went to harvard and think that they are smarter than you and will get you to give them your money.[/quote]

Or maybe one could take the initiative to do some research and read up on the technology and how it works so that we can have an actual discussion on the pros/cons rather than a series of lazy dismissive comments?

A virtual currency is inevitable. It may be Bitcoin, or it may be some other technology. But the underlying fact is that our current systems are obsolete in today’s insta-economy. In 10 years we will laugh at having to wait 7 days for a wire transfer. By then we’ll feel about today’s banking the same way we now feel about sending a hand-written letter via the post office.[/quote]

I did my research, I watched the facebook movie. Twice!

The lazy and dismissive comments were intentional, I’m dismissing bitcoin as nothing more than a fad with only money launderers as true customers. I can transfer money in seconds, online or in person, what does bitcoin do for me that doesn’t already exist with traditional currency. How does it offer international asset storage that gold doesn’t already offer? I am not a rare niche consumer, I’m mainstream and I have no need for it, nor do most people. It is more likely to not exist in ten years than to replace government currency. You buy it, I won’t and we will just have to wait and see how it turns out.[/quote]

CEO’s committing suicide, hackers stealing it, half the exchanges going under and founders running from being identified as being founders. Fine, don’t listen to me, I’m outdated, I’m not doing research. Piggington attracts an ecclectic mix of eccentrics. They are incredibly fun to follow and learn from, sometimes they are way in front of the curve, but for gods sake don’t listen to 90% of them for financial advice.

http://piggington.com/where_would_piggs_by_the_stock_market#comment-190310

some good writing on this page by me, what an egomaniac I can be.

I lacked the energy to find my 2008 meltdown posts where I chose to poll this forum regarding a windfall of 6k that I had in 2008 when the stock market crashed. I had seven stocks I was considering putting 1k each into and figured I would use the group consensus to drop one. After all the advice I didn’t buy any of them, which was an epic mistake as most doubled, tripled or went up ten fold by the end of the year, all are still riding high. For a while I calculated my loss, 10k, 20k, 40k, as the months went on it got worse, now I don’t want to know, It makes me angry. I should have bought Ford at $1, Harley at $8, Costco at $45, Homebuilder K Hovnanian at 53 cents, the list goes on. But everyone said buy gold, ammo and canned food. This is a niche, local real estate, that’s it. A one trick pony that make one trick ponies seem diversified. The rest is noise meant to amuse.

I hate saying I told you so, but bitcoin will fail, their replacement will fail, read back 7 years, I’m rarely wrong. And following advice regarding real estate within this forum now has me up 250k. As far as other investments, I missed at least 50k when I checked a few years ago on those stocks I mised out on, I don’t really want to know today’s number because I’m sure it’s worse.

Passing observation, oil is a bubble right now. We use less, vehicle efficiency is moving faster than population increase and will continue that direction. Plus the US is moving closer to energy independance each day. It will be propped up to keep that technology and domestic infrastructure investment moving forward but it’s got the future of the Argentine Peso. You’ve been warned.

[an]

[quote=temeculaguy]As far as other investments, I missed at least 50k when I checked a few years ago on those stocks I mised out on, I don’t really want to know today’s number because I’m sure it’s worse.[/quote]Why would anyone every put stock (no pun intended) on anonymous stranger stock pick? If any of us is any good, we’d be sitting on our own island enjoying the sun instead of posting on here.

[Author]

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