Are federal workers overpaid? Avg 123k?? It’s insane!

[Coronita]

[quote=jficquette]We are talking double the pay for private employees. Double the pay for jobs that are mostly unneeded.[/quote]

Well, if you’re better off taking one of those positions, then apply for one.

[jficquette]

[quote=EconProf]This thread promises to be long-lasting and of interest to many Piggs. It is an intriguing question and will grow in importance as curbing the exploding government debt takes priority.
Accordingly, let’s curb our shoot-from-the-hip knee-jerk contributions that merely inflame and cause the discussion to go downhill. Let’s especially not leap to conclusions based on anecdotes.
The opening post gave us all some hard facts that we can react to. Interpreting them is a good test of one’s objectivity and critical thinking skills.
Offhand, I’d observe that federal workers are generally higher educated than the average private sector worker, which accounts for a good share of the difference. In addition, getting a federal job requires far more vetting, testing, waiting, etc. to get in. Clearly the fringe benefits and job security are vastly superior, and this is easily documented. What is really subjective is whether federal (and state and local) workers work harder or not, and here reasoning from the anecdote can mislead us.
The best way to judge would be to compare closely similar government jobs to their match in the private sector–say clerks, secretaries, accountants, doctors, security workers, etc. My understanding of such studies is that the government workers get more in TOTAL compensation, including fringe benefits, retirement, vacations, etc, but not the wide variance quoted above.
Another observation is that decades ago, government workers at all levels did indeed make less than their private sector bretheren (and got generous non-monetary compensation as an offset), and in recent decades leap-frogged ahead in pay as well thanks to public sector unions. I predict a re-balancing in future years as voters demand a reset.[/quote]

Getting a government job mostly depends on your race and sex. As far as being more educated, getting degrees in crap like “Government Studies” is not what I call getting educated

[jficquette]

[quote=EconProf]This thread promises to be long-lasting and of interest to many Piggs. It is an intriguing question and will grow in importance as curbing the exploding government debt takes priority.
Accordingly, let’s curb our shoot-from-the-hip knee-jerk contributions that merely inflame and cause the discussion to go downhill. Let’s especially not leap to conclusions based on anecdotes.
The opening post gave us all some hard facts that we can react to. Interpreting them is a good test of one’s objectivity and critical thinking skills.
Offhand, I’d observe that federal workers are generally higher educated than the average private sector worker, which accounts for a good share of the difference. In addition, getting a federal job requires far more vetting, testing, waiting, etc. to get in. Clearly the fringe benefits and job security are vastly superior, and this is easily documented. What is really subjective is whether federal (and state and local) workers work harder or not, and here reasoning from the anecdote can mislead us.
The best way to judge would be to compare closely similar government jobs to their match in the private sector–say clerks, secretaries, accountants, doctors, security workers, etc. My understanding of such studies is that the government workers get more in TOTAL compensation, including fringe benefits, retirement, vacations, etc, but not the wide variance quoted above.
Another observation is that decades ago, government workers at all levels did indeed make less than their private sector bretheren (and got generous non-monetary compensation as an offset), and in recent decades leap-frogged ahead in pay as well thanks to public sector unions. I predict a re-balancing in future years as voters demand a reset.[/quote]

Getting a government job mostly depends on your race and sex. As far as being more educated, getting degrees in crap like “Government Studies” is not what I call getting educated

[jficquette]

[quote=EconProf]This thread promises to be long-lasting and of interest to many Piggs. It is an intriguing question and will grow in importance as curbing the exploding government debt takes priority.
Accordingly, let’s curb our shoot-from-the-hip knee-jerk contributions that merely inflame and cause the discussion to go downhill. Let’s especially not leap to conclusions based on anecdotes.
The opening post gave us all some hard facts that we can react to. Interpreting them is a good test of one’s objectivity and critical thinking skills.
Offhand, I’d observe that federal workers are generally higher educated than the average private sector worker, which accounts for a good share of the difference. In addition, getting a federal job requires far more vetting, testing, waiting, etc. to get in. Clearly the fringe benefits and job security are vastly superior, and this is easily documented. What is really subjective is whether federal (and state and local) workers work harder or not, and here reasoning from the anecdote can mislead us.
The best way to judge would be to compare closely similar government jobs to their match in the private sector–say clerks, secretaries, accountants, doctors, security workers, etc. My understanding of such studies is that the government workers get more in TOTAL compensation, including fringe benefits, retirement, vacations, etc, but not the wide variance quoted above.
Another observation is that decades ago, government workers at all levels did indeed make less than their private sector bretheren (and got generous non-monetary compensation as an offset), and in recent decades leap-frogged ahead in pay as well thanks to public sector unions. I predict a re-balancing in future years as voters demand a reset.[/quote]

Getting a government job mostly depends on your race and sex. As far as being more educated, getting degrees in crap like “Government Studies” is not what I call getting educated

[jficquette]

[quote=EconProf]This thread promises to be long-lasting and of interest to many Piggs. It is an intriguing question and will grow in importance as curbing the exploding government debt takes priority.
Accordingly, let’s curb our shoot-from-the-hip knee-jerk contributions that merely inflame and cause the discussion to go downhill. Let’s especially not leap to conclusions based on anecdotes.
The opening post gave us all some hard facts that we can react to. Interpreting them is a good test of one’s objectivity and critical thinking skills.
Offhand, I’d observe that federal workers are generally higher educated than the average private sector worker, which accounts for a good share of the difference. In addition, getting a federal job requires far more vetting, testing, waiting, etc. to get in. Clearly the fringe benefits and job security are vastly superior, and this is easily documented. What is really subjective is whether federal (and state and local) workers work harder or not, and here reasoning from the anecdote can mislead us.
The best way to judge would be to compare closely similar government jobs to their match in the private sector–say clerks, secretaries, accountants, doctors, security workers, etc. My understanding of such studies is that the government workers get more in TOTAL compensation, including fringe benefits, retirement, vacations, etc, but not the wide variance quoted above.
Another observation is that decades ago, government workers at all levels did indeed make less than their private sector bretheren (and got generous non-monetary compensation as an offset), and in recent decades leap-frogged ahead in pay as well thanks to public sector unions. I predict a re-balancing in future years as voters demand a reset.[/quote]

Getting a government job mostly depends on your race and sex. As far as being more educated, getting degrees in crap like “Government Studies” is not what I call getting educated

[jficquette]

[quote=EconProf]This thread promises to be long-lasting and of interest to many Piggs. It is an intriguing question and will grow in importance as curbing the exploding government debt takes priority.
Accordingly, let’s curb our shoot-from-the-hip knee-jerk contributions that merely inflame and cause the discussion to go downhill. Let’s especially not leap to conclusions based on anecdotes.
The opening post gave us all some hard facts that we can react to. Interpreting them is a good test of one’s objectivity and critical thinking skills.
Offhand, I’d observe that federal workers are generally higher educated than the average private sector worker, which accounts for a good share of the difference. In addition, getting a federal job requires far more vetting, testing, waiting, etc. to get in. Clearly the fringe benefits and job security are vastly superior, and this is easily documented. What is really subjective is whether federal (and state and local) workers work harder or not, and here reasoning from the anecdote can mislead us.
The best way to judge would be to compare closely similar government jobs to their match in the private sector–say clerks, secretaries, accountants, doctors, security workers, etc. My understanding of such studies is that the government workers get more in TOTAL compensation, including fringe benefits, retirement, vacations, etc, but not the wide variance quoted above.
Another observation is that decades ago, government workers at all levels did indeed make less than their private sector bretheren (and got generous non-monetary compensation as an offset), and in recent decades leap-frogged ahead in pay as well thanks to public sector unions. I predict a re-balancing in future years as voters demand a reset.[/quote]

Getting a government job mostly depends on your race and sex. As far as being more educated, getting degrees in crap like “Government Studies” is not what I call getting educated

[jficquette]

[quote=flu][quote=jficquette]We are talking double the pay for private employees. Double the pay for jobs that are mostly unneeded.[/quote]

Well, if you’re better off taking one of those positions, then apply for one.[/quote]

For the twice the pay lets all sign up.

[jficquette]

[quote=flu][quote=jficquette]We are talking double the pay for private employees. Double the pay for jobs that are mostly unneeded.[/quote]

Well, if you’re better off taking one of those positions, then apply for one.[/quote]

For the twice the pay lets all sign up.

[jficquette]

[quote=flu][quote=jficquette]We are talking double the pay for private employees. Double the pay for jobs that are mostly unneeded.[/quote]

Well, if you’re better off taking one of those positions, then apply for one.[/quote]

For the twice the pay lets all sign up.

[jficquette]

[quote=flu][quote=jficquette]We are talking double the pay for private employees. Double the pay for jobs that are mostly unneeded.[/quote]

Well, if you’re better off taking one of those positions, then apply for one.[/quote]

For the twice the pay lets all sign up.

[jficquette]

[quote=flu][quote=jficquette]We are talking double the pay for private employees. Double the pay for jobs that are mostly unneeded.[/quote]

Well, if you’re better off taking one of those positions, then apply for one.[/quote]

For the twice the pay lets all sign up.

[jficquette]

[quote=flu][quote=briansd1][quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?[/quote]

Well, for a minority of people, yes…Those are the ones that are true altruists. You see them working/volunteering at food banks, helping out poor, helping out Katrina victims, helping our natural disaster victims,etc. The majority rest of the people might have lofty ideas, but very little in terms of actionable actions, and imho just grandstanding and postulating…

The true altruists…great for them. I admire them.. I’m not one of them…And I don’t bother pretending to be one with high preachy morales/ethics/whatever (though it doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t have any either).[/quote]

Those people tend to be conservatives. Liberals can be found at PETA.

[jficquette]

[quote=flu][quote=briansd1][quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?[/quote]

Well, for a minority of people, yes…Those are the ones that are true altruists. You see them working/volunteering at food banks, helping out poor, helping out Katrina victims, helping our natural disaster victims,etc. The majority rest of the people might have lofty ideas, but very little in terms of actionable actions, and imho just grandstanding and postulating…

The true altruists…great for them. I admire them.. I’m not one of them…And I don’t bother pretending to be one with high preachy morales/ethics/whatever (though it doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t have any either).[/quote]

Those people tend to be conservatives. Liberals can be found at PETA.

[jficquette]

[quote=flu][quote=briansd1][quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?[/quote]

Well, for a minority of people, yes…Those are the ones that are true altruists. You see them working/volunteering at food banks, helping out poor, helping out Katrina victims, helping our natural disaster victims,etc. The majority rest of the people might have lofty ideas, but very little in terms of actionable actions, and imho just grandstanding and postulating…

The true altruists…great for them. I admire them.. I’m not one of them…And I don’t bother pretending to be one with high preachy morales/ethics/whatever (though it doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t have any either).[/quote]

Those people tend to be conservatives. Liberals can be found at PETA.

[jficquette]

[quote=flu][quote=briansd1][quote=flu]

The only thing you can really do is to shore up your own/family financial situation so that when the crap hits the fan (and it will hit the fan), you are at less screwed than other people. Everything else is window dressing.[/quote]

You can take care of your family and still care about society at large at the same time. No?[/quote]

Well, for a minority of people, yes…Those are the ones that are true altruists. You see them working/volunteering at food banks, helping out poor, helping out Katrina victims, helping our natural disaster victims,etc. The majority rest of the people might have lofty ideas, but very little in terms of actionable actions, and imho just grandstanding and postulating…

The true altruists…great for them. I admire them.. I’m not one of them…And I don’t bother pretending to be one with high preachy morales/ethics/whatever (though it doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t have any either).[/quote]

Those people tend to be conservatives. Liberals can be found at PETA.

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