Aging population and housing

[poorgradstudent]

[quote=harvey]This invasion of immigrant children in San Diego sounds terrible.

I’m sure glad the Border Patrol station is south of Temecula.[/quote]

I think you’re thinking of the checkpoint station for trucks? There are rules that allow Mexican registered vehicles to travel a certain number of miles past the border, but not to travel freely within the US without proper permits. That’s why there are checkpoints north of SD.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=deadzone]Excellent summary of the situation BG. Only point that I would contend is you implied the border crossers working in San Diego have work visa. That is not typically the case in my experience. I know many who have border crossing card (i.e. tourist Visa) but are working illegally. Absent a green card, what work permit or work visa do you think they have that would legally allow them to work in hotel/restaurant industry?[/quote] deadzone, my understanding is the vast majority of Mexican Nationals applying for jobs in SD County have at least a work permit which is reapplied for by their employer annually. Whatever identification they show (CA Driver License, which is easy to get for a Mexican National), MX birth certificate and work permit/visa is enough to satisfy the I-9 requirements and hire them. It is up to the employer if they want to renew their work permits/visa each year to retain their services.

More troubling is the lack of ability of the employer to tell at first blush if a border-crosser’s SSN number they are positing as their own was legitimately issued to them or was that of a deceased US citizen. As I recall, physical specimens of SS cards purchased in LA on the black market in the past 20 years were a pretty good facsimile of the real thing. My college-student kid, based in LA County just asked me to send them their “original” SS card ASAP last month, which I did (after taking a color copy of it). They had just gotten a new job and was slated for orientation in a few days where the employer needed to see their “original” SS card to complete their I-9. I thought that was odd as my kid didn’t have to produce it for the job they had last year and I have never been asked to produce mine to an employer, just my SS number. But employers are getting wise to the fake SS cards and now have guides and procedures in place to determine the legitimacy of SS cards which every applicant who is hired presents to them.

I have noticed that in the past (2+?) years the online US SS Death Index is now either by subscription only and/or closed to the public, so an employer who does not subscribe to it cannot immediately find out if the SSNs being presented to them by new hires were previously used by a now deceased person unless they (or their parent company) subscribe to it.

Sites of SS prefixes issued by state and year are out there. Example:

http://mrfa.org/ssn.htm

http://socialsecuritynumerology.com/prefixes.php

This is one of the better ones, imho, because it has a state/year decoder tool which has some limitations, but is, for the most part, pretty useful:

http://www.stevemorse.org/ssn/ssn.html

and this helpful site:

http://dataprivacylab.org/dataprivacy/projects/ssnwatch/samples.html

Another problem is a typical HR assistant taking the I-9 info from a new hire has little experience and therefore would very likely not recognize fraud if a 24 year-old applicant was attempting to use a CA issued SSN beginning with 555 (likely issued between 1955 and 1957), for example. Before 1986, US-born minors did not typically apply for a SS number until they were at least 15 years of age and seeking a work permit (so may or may not have been born in the state in which they received their assigned SSN).

In this case, our (fictitious) original SSN holder died at the age of 58 of cancer in 1999 in San Joaquin County and their SS number was subsequently sold on the black market off the street in LA in 2008 and ended up in the hands of this 24-year-old job applicant in San Diego County.

Now that the SS Death Index is no longer public, no new numbers of decedents can be easily be used to manufacture fraudulent SS cards (but older lists are probably still floating around underground).

This very important “I-9 completion business” for new hires really needs to be performed by the most senior HR representative of the organization. It is NOT a job for the HR “newbie.”

maybe brian/FIH can shed a little more light on this thorny subject for the Piggs. IIRC, he’s fairly knowledgeable in this area.

[spdrun]

That’s why there are checkpoints north of SD.

Nah, I’ve been pulled over in a car with US registration at one of the checkpoints. Their purpose is to harass people and sniff for truffles so to speak.

They even went as far to question a friend who had an accent one time.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=spdrun]

That’s why there are checkpoints north of SD.

Nah, I’ve been pulled over in a car with US registration at one of the checkpoints. Their purpose is to harass people and sniff for truffles so to speak.

They even went as far to question a friend who had an accent one time.[/quote]

spd, did this incident take place at a checkpoint on I-5/I-15 in SD County, CA or on I-8/I-10 in SD or Imperial County CA, AZ or NM??

The former checkpoints have a completely different purpose than the latter checkpoints.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]

That’s why there are checkpoints north of SD.

Nah, I’ve been pulled over in a car with US registration at one of the checkpoints. Their purpose is to harass people and sniff for truffles so to speak.

They even went as far to question a friend who had an accent one time.[/quote]

It’s actually both.

The “trucking safety” thing/pretext is one way that the US failed to implement NAFTA.

Border and customs is now one agency.

[Anonymous]

BG, there is no way some hotel or restaurant is “sponsoring” a minimum wage service employee for to get a temporary work visa through USCIS.

As you say, getting fraudulent SSN is easy and employers have no reason to investigate if it is legit or not because they know they won’t be held responsible (with the exception of the French Gourmet in PB, not sure what was going on there).

So bottom line, the vast majority of these service workers are illegal, working with fraudulent SSN, regardless of whether they are living in Mexico or San Diego.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=deadzone]BG, there is no way some hotel or restaurant is “sponsoring” a minimum wage service employee for to get a temporary work visa through USCIS.

As you say, getting fraudulent SSN is easy and employers have no reason to investigate if it is legit or not because they know they won’t be held responsible (with the exception of the French Gourmet in PB, not sure what was going on there).

So bottom line, the vast majority of these service workers are illegal, working with fraudulent SSN, regardless of whether they are living in Mexico or San Diego.[/quote]

deadzone, I’m not too well-versed in immigration law so I’m currently studying the instructions for the I-765 form (used to apply for a work permit):

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-765instr.pdf

I DO know that deceased persons’ SSN proffering for employment purposes has been rampant in SoCal for at least 30 years. I have experienced this phenom first-hand working as a RE salesperson in the eighties and early nineties. I “represented” a couple of buyers (at different times) who had GREAT jobs and little debt who had applied for government-backed loan programs (in this case, the FHA 203b program). Both could EASILY qualify to buy the homes in which their offer was accepted and escrow was opened. Both had the funds on deposit for the small downpayment and closing costs. During the underwriting process, their SSNs were found to be belonging to a reported deceased US citizen.

This is after I spent many, many hours (in addition to my FT job) finding them a suitable house, getting their offer(s) accepted and opening escrow. Such are the perils of acting as a buyer’s agent, which I am reluctant to ever do again.

One of my buyers was actually the Controller of a well-established business in National City with more than 50 employees and had worked there for 8 years! She was a Filipina who was attempting to buy a very nice 3 bdrm home in National City for herself and her 6 year-old son, who was a US citizen. She couldn’t bear to leave him as the kid’s father lived locally and demanded to have visitation with him. He couldn’t live with them because he was married to someone else … with children. His spouse knew about her child. It was messy and she was stuck.

I didn’t get her whole story until she didn’t qualify for the loan. I have no idea if the FHA (or local underwriter) turned her into the INS but I doubt it. She quickly “ghosted me” for fear she would lose her job and be deported, leaving her son behind.

What is really sad is that she worked for 12 years in the US using that particular SSN after her visitor’s visa ran out. I’m not sure if her prior payroll deductions for FICA under the deceased woman’s SSN she was using could be converted to a legitimate SSN in her own true name. I don’t know what the “rules” are in this regard. She very well may have forfeited all her FICA contributions under the bogus SSN she was using.

My other client referred to above was a Mexican National who claimed to me to have a green card but only had a work permit at the time (but employed FT in SD County, as was his spouse). He and his spouse could easily qualify for the home in which they had an accepted offer on. When the FHA underwriter ran their SSN’s, the husband came up using a deceased person’s SSN and the wife’s SSN was legit. Both worked FT but they didn’t qualify for the loan.

Both buyers told me in the end that they had no idea that the SSN’s they reported as theirs on their mortgage applications for an FHA loan would be “investigated.” Neither did I before the first client. I honestly thought of her failed escrow as an isolated incident and did not think I would run across this situation again.

Had either of these buyers tried to go conventional at the time (Fannie or Freddie) I don’t know what would have happened. Had they tried to go with the several “portfolio lenders” in town at the time (mostly S&L’s), I feel both would have very likely been successful in qualifying. However, neither buyer had the necessary downpayment to go conventional.

Yes, even the young Swedish nanny working for a family in PL (SD) is desperate to stay in the US. If there is even a whiff of trouble in getting her visa extended, she is going to “hide out” in her employer’s home (or a new employer’s home) until she and/or her employer figure out how to make her “legal.”

That’s the way its always been, ESPecially in SD.

I’ve got other stories related to my actual former co-workers in this regard but I’ll just leave it at that.

[Anonymous]

[quote=poorgradstudent][quote=harvey]This invasion of immigrant children in San Diego sounds terrible.

I’m sure glad the Border Patrol station is south of Temecula.[/quote]

I think you’re thinking of the checkpoint station for trucks? …[/quote]

I’m thinking of the checkpoint station where they routinely block the whole damn freeway and put officers in the road who eyeball every single vehicle in an attempt to identify I’m not sure what.

It’s absolutely ridiculous.

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]That’s good to have some people in the US which are not good little sheep, consuming cheaply-made Chinese crap like it was water.

It’s NOT everyone’s social fucking duty to spend, spend, spend till they drop.[/quote]

Agreed. I’m not talking about the social aspect, just the economic argument.

[spdrun]

If our economy is based on people spending like sheep, then screw our economy. It deserves to fail.

[spdrun]

Officers? More like truffle-sniffers. Oink. Oink. Wheeeeeeeeeee!

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]If our economy is based on people spending like sheep, then screw our economy. It deserves to fail.[/quote]

I think that you and I both would agree that our entire economic system needs to be reevaluated. It is not a sustainable system, nor is it just. But while some alternative theories sound interesting (resource-based, basic income, among many others), there is always a glitch. Of course, the “market-based” system has its share of problems, but if we were to convert, it would have to be to a system that is far superior, with some examples and studies to back it up. Otherwise, the chaos and destruction involved in converting would make it untenable.

[Anonymous]

BG, practically speaking there is no “work permit” for a Mexican national to be working in San Diego at low wage service jobs such as Burger King, Holiday Inn, etc.

The vast majority of these workers are illegal, presumably using fraudulent SSNs.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]The Europeans are worried about losing their national and cultural identities, too. It’s 100% natural, and there is nothing wrong with that. People can call it nationalism (not saying that’s a bad thing), or even racism, but it is as much a part of human nature as greed and hoarding. It’s a survival instinct.[/quote]

I used to think greed and hoarding were undesirable character flaws.

Thanks for letting me know that these things are ok, along with anything else that’s “100% natural.”

[bearishgurl]

[quote=deadzone]BG, practically speaking there is no “work permit” for a Mexican national to be working in San Diego at low wage service jobs such as Burger King, Holiday Inn, etc.

The vast majority of these workers are illegal, presumably using fraudulent SSNs.[/quote]

I couldn’t find a loophole in the code for applying for a garden-variety work permit “just because” either, deadzone.

Most if not all restaurants and hotels in SD have a good percentage of border-crossing employees. It is the same situation with nursing homes and board and care homes … and even the Del Mar racetrack (recurring temp positions). All I can think of then is that many of them DO have green cards but choose to live in MX due to lower cost and family proximity.

Many of these employees have decades of seniority. At one time, it wasn’t that expensive to rent a place in SD County, especially with roommates or in a 2-family situation.

In recent years, SD County rents have gotten ridiculous so the longtime local service-sector employees who weren’t able to ever buy their own home in the intervening years could very well have moved back to MX.

And yes, a portion of these workers may be using fraudulent SSNs to work in the US but I can’t imagine a 20+ year employee at the Hotel Del, for example, willing to work under an identity which is not theirs and pay FICA out of their pay associated with that identity for that length of time, knowing that they may never see any of it in the future.

Perhaps that is okay with some workers because they otherwise wouldn’t be able to have such long, steady employment in a nice daily atmosphere where they get to share tips.

It wouldn’t be okay with me but of course, I’m an American who might be accused of taking that status for granted.

[Author]

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