Rustico: I certainly don’t think you are picking on me, and the point of discourse is to be able to articulate differing viewpoints in a friendly environment.
I mentioned both the Germans and the Jesuits for the very reason you picked up on. Yup, there is a lot of stuff in both histories that is cringe making, but that is also the nature of history.
I also do not for a second believe that if oil weren’t present in Iraq, we would be there. “Trade follows the flag” is a truism now, was during the days of the British Empire and the Roman Empire as well. We are an empire, in name if not deed, but a fairly enlightened one to a certain extent. Of course, if history truly judges us, we are also a pretty brutal bunch in our own way.
That being said, I also think a fair reading of history will condemn Christians and Moslems alike. Islam is not a religion of peace and the “religion of the sword” comment is derived from Sura 9:5 in the Qu’ran (“The Sword Verse”) that makes it explicitly clear how Islam is to be spread to the non-believers.
While there are undoubtedly political motivations and machinations inherent to the fighting between the Sunnis and Shia, the larger issue is one of Quranic interpretation and this has inspired internecine warfare between the two sects for a lot longer than we have been in Iraq.
I really don’t have any ingrained dislike of Moslems or Islam, any more than I have a natural dislike of Buddhism, Shintoism or the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Belief in God and religiosity/spirituality are intensely personal decisions and not subject to my judgments as to whether or not they are correct. However, as with Nazism, Communism or the New York Yankees, some things are intrinsically wrong.
From a religious standpoint, any religion that actively seeks the subjugation of non-believers and does so in the name of God is a problem. If that is fundamentalist Christianity or fundamentalist Islam makes no difference to me. Last time I checked though, we didn’t have a group of priests or rabbis flying jumbo jets into skyscrapers. That they did so at the behest of their religion speaks volumes.
I hear what you are saying about the responsibility of America and reaping what we have sown, but what then is the answer for that part of the world? Self-government? Along the lines of what? Iran? Libya? Syria? Lebanon? Give the people in those countries the right to choose and I would support their choice. I have no doubt that the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas would do well in elections. So be it. If it is the choice and voice of the people, than that is what counts.
As far as the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, look to the British. Home Rule has been an asbolutely unmitigated disaster for the Crown. Give Northern Ireland the same rights as Southern Ireland as far as franchise and self rule and most, if not all, of the problems would go away.
