What I DO understand is the “enhanced pensions” awarded local gov’t workers in the last 10 years and those rare pension “outliers” as mentioned in the OP (who managed to “juice the system” in various legal ways put in place by YOUR elected officials) have put governments of all levels in the position they are now in …. responsible for funding any pension shortfall they may have. However, I am a REALIST and I don’t see all these gov entities filing under Chapter 9 to relieve themselves of this obligation nor do I see the BK courts allowing them to discharge this debt. They will likely continue to take higher pension payroll deductions from current workers and hope a good portion of their used-up worn-out boomer-retirees die sooner than later (not an unlikely possibility for many).
In the absence of the repeal of entire sections of the CA Government Code and Education Code, there is nothing in state law which would suggest that the formulas for pensions already promised and awarded could be jettisoned.
If you want to lobby for govm’t pension reform in CA, then complain to your legislator. Better yet, line out the old legislation and draft it anew!
Here . . . I’ll get you started on your first “gut and paste” project:
No one here has addressed the percentage of deaths that happen to current gov employees of substantial seniority or a deferred gov retiree where their heirs don’t receive a dime unless the employee has contributed their own funds to the plan. These two groups are eligible for but have not yet received their pensions. In SDCERA, this “employee contribution” requirement wasn’t in place until just over ten years ago and so most of the retirees who retired PRIOR to 2002 have pensions which are $500 – $1200 mo. Many, many are now deceased.
Let me ask you, flu, if you were a non-management gov’t worker, would YOU “bend over” for 20-30 years if you knew you would receive a $300 – $1200 per month after the end of your service in the form of a pension? This is what was promised to these workers.
And then ask yourself if I would have put up with it as long as I did in the absence of a promise of a pension. You have carte blanche to speak for me ;=][/quote]
I’m going to answer the parts of your quote that aren’t based on emotions…. You’re basically dodging the questions I asked.
1. Do you think that with all the pensions underpeforming the markets, that it’s sustainable for local and state governments to continue to make up for the shortfall?
2. Unlike a normal organization in which if it can’t pay for it’s bills, it files for bankruptcy to restructure debt and relinquish itself from a unpayable debt burden (like the airline industry did to unpayable pensions), governments do not have the ability to file for BK and get any pension debt relieve. Do you agree that is the predicament of our local and state governments?
3. Finally, do you think that it’s right that both current and future taxpayers (even the ones that are kids who had no voting power) will continue to pay for this benefit that up their asses so that a small percentage of people can continue to collect an return that has since fallen completely out of wack with reality?
All the “data” you are arguing over. About how much harder the job is, death rate, how little pay inheritance it is, etc etc…Death rate…It’s all irrelevant…
What part of “we can’t afford to pay for this” are you not understanding??? Doesn’t it bother you one bit, it’s not me or you that’s really going to suffer from this, but your kids (unless you’re going to encourage them to move out of CA and not deal with it)…
[quote]
Let me ask you, flu, if you were a non-management gov’t worker, would YOU “bend over” for 20-30 years if you knew you would receive a $300 – $1200 per month after the end of your service in the form of a pension? This is what was promised to these workers.
[/quote]
Frankly, I would think….too damn bad is sucks, but it is what is…No difference that if I were to tuck all my money away in a Roth 401k and the government says, sorry we need to tap it… Or if I purchased a house and later on the government said, sorry you have to pay more property taxes on it…
Ask the same question to all the airline pilots…
Under NATURAL structure, an organization that can’t pay bills goes belly up, and renegotiates the contracts…
In our current local/state government setup, this hard decision is being temporarily deferred, because it can apparently tap into an unlimited credit line from the taxpayers (at least that’s what folks think)…And it will continue to do some until the tax burden is so high and so large, people say enough…Then we have a snowball effect in which business/people do less business here, which means fewer tax dollars, which means the local/state has even a bigger shortfall. The unlimited taxpayer credit line for our local/state government is no different than the loose financing that allowed someone with a fake alt-a stated income to borrow as much money as he/she can without any consequences.
[quote]And then ask yourself if I would have put up with it as long as I did in the absence of a promise of a pension. You have carte blanche to speak for me [/quote]
Again, this is being personal… I’m not you. so Id on’t know… But I’ll just say this…And if you really could have done better elsewhere you should have…It’s the same argument that I hear people say in relationships.
“You know, I know I can do better than you, but I’m just putting up with you…” My argument has always been, if you really could do better, than prove it…. But the fact that you stayed doing exactly what you were doing, to me means you couldn’t have done better, because you would have.
[quote]
If you want to lobby for govm’t pension reform in CA, then complain to your legislator. Better yet, line out the old legislation and draft it anew!
[/quote]
Nope, I’ll just find more legal creative ways pay less taxes, or legally shelter my income/assets…with no remorse…I’m finding in more ways than others, that even more so in the near future, it’s really going to suck being a W2 income earner….So I don’t have plans to be in the group that’s going to bear the brunt of all this shortfall…Since better me than someone else..Hey, I’m kinda liking the new “me way of thinking”
