the reopening of america is a pivotal historical moment?

This topic has 26 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 4 months ago by kcal09.

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May 15, 2020 at 1:35 PM #22882

scaredyclassic
Participant

i may be way off, but the reopening of america seems to me a moment that may be in future history books, assuming there is a nation still publishing history books in the future.

It’s a moment where either deaths will level off or decline, in which case the trumpian/republican forces who argue conspiracy theories, deep state, nanny-state government diatribes and a general sense that the experts can’t be trusted will prevail, or deaths will trend upwards, in which case the pro-government pro-science-based types will probably not prevail but at least be able to say, jeez, we tried to warn you, while the nutjobs blame china or bill gates or anyone but themselves and double down on even crazier conspiracy theories about democratic coroners artificially inflating death rates to hurt trump. it’ll be like the election fraud arguments, but with fake corpses.

not sure how this all plays out, or what people really believe deep down, but it seems like this very moment in time could be an actual important event in american history.

the subheading in the bookchapter might be, “The Great National Science Experiment”, or “Money v. Life, a Risky Balance”. well, we have time to work out the text.

I for one am very interested to see what happens. I expect most people wont suddenly head out to party, as I still get the heebie jeebies if the supermarket’s too crowded. thats why i only shop at barons, a bit overpriced , but lots of space.

But enough people probably will cut loose that they’ll be able to give us a decent run on the experiment.

for the record, I am not on the side of death, I do not want many people to die, but my gut tells me this is going to be a decent sized culling, and that the upward trend of deaths (assuming that happens) is going to hang over the market and put pressure on growth.

assuming you agree, and don’t want to short the market, because you believe the Fed will resort to just buying stock shares to prop up prices, where does your extra cash non 401k investment money go.

May 15, 2020 at 3:05 PM #817299

The-Shoveler
Participant

Looking for a deal on a newer used car.
I know pathetic.

IMO the world wide Lock-down’s will be viewed in the future as an overreaction that caused untold suffering and misery unnecessarily especially in poorer countries.
And could have been avoided just using sensible less drastic measures.

May 15, 2020 at 3:11 PM #817301

scaredyclassic
Participant

I think most Americans will agree with you, even if the death toll is 1 million domestically.

May 15, 2020 at 3:22 PM #817302

FlyerInHi
Guest

[quote=The-Shoveler]IMO the world wide Lock-down’s will be viewed in the future as an overreaction that caused untold suffering and misery unnecessarily especially in poorer countries.
And could have been avoided just using sensible less drastic measures.[/quote]

In USA, we were unprepared with sensible, less drastic measures.
Poor countries don’t have resources so they are just winging it. We should have assisted and provided expertise and resources.

May 15, 2020 at 3:29 PM #817303

FlyerInHi
Guest

[quote=scaredyclassic]It’s a moment where either deaths will level off or decline, in which case the trumpian/republican forces who argue conspiracy theories, deep state, nanny-state government diatribes and a general sense that the experts can’t be trusted will prevail, or deaths will trend upwards, in which case the pro-government pro-science-based types will probably not prevail but at least be able to say, jeez, we tried to warn you, while the nutjobs blame china or bill gates or anyone but themselves and double down on even crazier conspiracy theories about democratic coroners artificially inflating death rates to hurt trump. it’ll be like the election fraud arguments, but with fake corpses.

not sure how this all plays out, or what people really believe deep down, but it seems like this very moment in time could be an actual important event in american history.
[/quote]

You write beautifully scaredy. I was thinking the same thing but I was unable to put it into words like you did.

May 15, 2020 at 3:44 PM #817304

svelte
Participant

This is a rare event, but not a unique event.

These same conversations and life vs economy discussions happened in 1918 and, just like today, there were folks on both sides of the fence, protests, and different communities taking different approaches.

I’ve read every San Diego newspaper from the last half of 1918 (I did that back in March when this all started) and the parallels to what they did then to what we are doing now are striking.

For all of the advances in technologies and record-keeping we’ve made in 100 years, the approaches and reactions to those approach are largely the same.

[img_assist|nid=27091|title=1918 Spanish Flu Epidemic|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=600|height=600]

May 15, 2020 at 4:39 PM #817306

zk
Participant

[quote=The-Shoveler]

IMO the world wide Lock-down’s will be viewed in the future as an overreaction that caused untold suffering and misery unnecessarily especially in poorer countries.
And could have been avoided just using sensible less drastic measures.[/quote]

What we need to open the economy while minimizing deaths is a massive program of testing and contact tracing.

But our president says testing is “overrated” and ““When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”

As long as we have a president who has that outrageously weak of an understanding of the situation, we won’t be able to minimize deaths and open the economy at the same time.

May 15, 2020 at 6:34 PM #817311

Coronita
Participant

you know what? if some states don’t care and want to open up … let them … Just don’t let the people from those states enter CA….

Too bad that’s not possible .

Unfortunately,a lot of Americans value freedom versus public health so…. We’re all just going to get infected eventually.

I’m going to be avoiding restaurants and closed /indoor venues for some time. maybe until next year. Good thing being in San Diego, much of the activity is outdoors.

May 15, 2020 at 7:18 PM #817313

outtamojo
Participant

[quote=The-Shoveler]Looking for a deal on a newer used car.
I know pathetic.

IMO the world wide Lock-down’s will be viewed in the future as an overreaction that caused untold suffering and misery unnecessarily especially in poorer countries.
And could have been avoided just using sensible less drastic measures.[/quote]

Keep an eye on Latin america.

May 15, 2020 at 7:54 PM #817314

FlyerInHi
Guest

[quote=svelte]For all of the advances in technologies and record-keeping we’ve made in 100 years, the approaches and reactions to those approach are largely the same.
[/quote]

That a pretty sad situation we’re in.

May 15, 2020 at 7:56 PM #817315

FlyerInHi
Guest

[quote=Coronita]you know what? if some states don’t care and want to open up … let them … Just don’t let the people from those states enter CA….

Too bad that’s not possible .

Unfortunately,a lot of Americans value freedom versus public health so…. We’re all just going to get infected eventually.

I’m going to be avoiding restaurants and closed /indoor venues for some time. maybe until next year. Good thing being in San Diego, much of the activity is outdoors.[/quote]

Live free or die.

May 16, 2020 at 8:27 AM #817324

svelte
Participant

We want to make sure our favorite places survive, so we plan on going out as soon as they open up. We’ll be extra cautious, but we’re not going to live in isolation.

May 16, 2020 at 2:10 PM #817333

ocrenter
Participant

[quote=Coronita]you know what? if some states don’t care and want to open up … let them … Just don’t let the people from those states enter CA….

Too bad that’s not possible .

Unfortunately,a lot of Americans value freedom versus public health so…. We’re all just going to get infected eventually.

I’m going to be avoiding restaurants and closed /indoor venues for some time. maybe until next year. Good thing being in San Diego, much of the activity is outdoors.[/quote]

Would avoid southern part of the county. Even if it is open outdoors activities.

TJ is a bloody mess. ER at least 3x overcapacitated. Intubations in hallways. Regular ER and hospitalists all called to CDMX. GPs trying to manage but they are looking at 100% mortality with their intubated patients. The patients they do not intubate they just call “pneumonia” and sent straight home.

Meanwhile our ports of entry still open to numerous citizens living south of the border with no quarantine restrictions. Lots of them driving right across and directly to Sharp and Scripps Chula Vista Hospitals. Both ICUs completely full.

May 16, 2020 at 2:45 PM #817335

outtamojo
Participant

Pandemic need worldwide cooperation but those effen evangelicals/rapture folks like pompeo see one world government end of times every move we make towards a world community.

We should be helping our southern neighbors more if only to keep the virus from moving north.

May 16, 2020 at 2:46 PM #817336

ocrenter
Participant

[quote=outtamojo]Pandemic need worldwide cooperation but those effen evangelicals/rapture folks like pompeo see one world government every move we make towards a world community.

We should be helping our southern neighbors more if only to keep the virus from moving north.[/quote]

Typically US would take leadership on this. A competent US President would have gotten the ball rolling in mid January.
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