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zk
Participant[quote=ucodegen]
[quote=zk][quote=ucodegen]
We already debated the AGW subject to death, and it didn’t hold up. [/quote]The only places this is true are in right-wing media and with others who have an agenda.[/quote]
If the basic math doesn’t hold up, then it doesn’t hold up. It is kind of simple there.[/quote]
Clearly some people are doing math differently from others or, probably more accurately, basing their math on different assumptions, as deniers have come up with different conclusions from the consensus of scientists.
You can say the math doesn’t add up. The consensus of the world’s scientists disagrees with you.
Participant[quote=ucodegen]
We already debated the AGW subject to death, and it didn’t hold up. [/quote]The only places this is true are in right-wing media and with others who have an agenda.
ParticipantRight-wing media are destroying our country and trying to take the world down with us. These fox-watching fools voted for this.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/donald-trumps-screw-you-to-the-world
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]I was listening to Pod Save America…. I find liberal media more young, sunny and funny compared to right wing media which is all about fear and angst.[/quote]
I’ll pass on anything biased. Just the truth, please.
Participant[quote=SK in CV]
I thought you were referring to the biblical quote I provided: “justice, justice, thou shall pursue”. It’s among my favorites. And isn’t anything like “an eye for an eye”.[/quote]
I was unclear. My bad.
Participant[quote=SK in CV]
No. Not exactly. In fact, not even in the same universe as an eye for an eye. Closer to just the opposite of an eye for an eye.
And I’m not a believer, so it’s not my bible. I was just pointing out, as you have, that the Hebrew Bible, the larger part of the Old Testament, like most religious texts, has some serious inconsistencies.[/quote]
Opposite? What? You lost me.
I was saying that the old testament says an eye for an eye, not that you were saying that.
Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=zk][quote=FlyerInHi] Being tough and strong and wanting to respond to everything with shock and awe, overwhelmming pushnishment is nothing to be proud of. That also flies in the face of the teachings of the Bible.
[/quote]
Have you read the old testament?[/quote]
I have.
Justice, justice, thou shall pursue.[/quote]
Exactly. An eye for an eye. So to say that responding to violence with violence flies in the face of the teachings of the bible doesn’t really…fly.
Of course, the bible apparently being subject to interpretation as it is, one can interpret the bible to mean almost anything they want. Especially considering all the contradictory things the bible says.
I certainly don’t want to jack my own thread, but I’ve never gotten a decent answer to these questions:
If your holy book is strictly the word of god and not subject to interpretation, how do you explain/justify the horrors in that book?
If your holy book is subject to interpretation, then aren’t those interpretations subject to the folly of man, and therefore not true divine guidance?
If your holy book is not true divine guidance, then what’s the point of it?
What is your favorite color?
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
Anyway, fortunately, the bible is not the law of the land. Let’s keep it that way.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi] Being tough and strong and wanting to respond to everything with shock and awe, overwhelmming pushnishment is nothing to be proud of. That also flies in the face of the teachings of the Bible.
[/quote]
Have you read the old testament?
Participant[quote=saxmonkey]
So you geniuses tell me why I voted for Trump.
Answer: you don’t know and can’t imagine why. All you can do is sling a few easy insults.
Well, don’t bother. I’ll sling them for you just to show you that I know how YOU think much better than you know how I think.Answer: I had a stroke (I didn’t)
Answer: I’m ignorant and uneducated (Wrong again. Chances are, I’m better educated, traveled and more experienced than you)
Answer: I’m self-destructive (ha-ha- not)
Answer: I’m secretly a racist/homophobe/sexist pig. (Wrong again)Answer: I’m fed up with the good intentions (that come from Liberals) that always seem to lead to bad ideas (that also come from Liberals). NOW, You’re getting warm!
[/quote]Monkey, my guess as to why you voted for con man don has been spelled out pretty clearly. You pretty much ignore it in your response. I’d like to hear your take on my theory. Obviously you won’t agree with it. But I’m interested in exactly how and why you disagree.
I believe you voted for con man don because you believe the nonsense you hear on right-wing media:
[quote=zk]Republican voters, being human and therefore credulous and gullible, believe whatever they hear on Fox Propaganda (and Breitbart and the rest of the right-wing media). They support republicans and con man don no matter what they do, because Fox Propaganda tells them republicans and con man don are doing a great job no matter what they do.
[/quote]
And I’ve spelled out why you believe what fox says:[quote=zk]
I think that right-wing media is extremely popular because it tells right wingers what they want to hear. It tells them they’re right about everything. It makes them feel good about themselves. It makes them feel strong and smart. It makes them feel like they’re better and stronger and manlier than whiny liberal pansies. That stuff sells. It sells way better than the truth. [/quote][quote=saxmonkey]
And by the way, if the MSM (CBS,NBC,ABC,NYT, LAT,CNN, MSNBC and almost every newspaper in the country) can’t get a good message together to counteract the effect of Fox News, then how weak is their message? It’s like watching Jack Reacher (Fox News) facing off against six bad guys in a bar (the MSM). You know how it’s going to end.
[/quote]As I said in the post above, feel-good propaganda sells way better than the truth. That’s why truthful media are having a hard time counteracting the effect of fox propaganda. A better analogy for Fox propaganda than Jack Reacher is a Svengali. Fox is a Svengali and truthful media are a bunch of nerds with no charisma. The Svengali is not afraid to use emotional manipulation nor is he afraid to use half-truths and innuendo. The nerds have very high ethical standards, and refrain even from half-truths. The audience that the Svengali and the nerds are trying to reach is credulous and gullible. The truth has nothing to do with who the audience will believe. Of course the Svengali wins. It doesn’t matter how many nerds there are.
[quote=saxmonkey]
Maybe the MSM should take a clue from Fox:
[/quote]
Well that would be good for conservatives. If mainstream media take a clue from fox and start broadcasting propaganda, half-truths, and innuendo, then they’ll be no better than fox. Already conservatives don’t trust mainstream media because fox told them not to. If mainstream media go down the road that fox did, people will actually have a reason not to trust the mainstream media, and fox will be as good as anybody else. If that happens, we’re all fucked.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]DThere is a tiny big problem with Rufus. He’s the only one who resents any help. So as flu remarked, why waste time on an ingrate?
From my own observation, I can tell you that Julio is moving on up. My granite installer/fabricator told me that he worked really hard but his cheap boss would pay him only $80 pay day. So he leaned English, quit and started his own business. He can can now make $500 – $1500 per day installing granite, depending on the job.
I love him because he does exactly what I tell him without bitching and charging me extra (I pay extra anyway). They value education (not in a tiger way), buy they don’t have the contempt for learning that Rufus holds (because Rufus think he knows everything already).Julio’s kids go to school and are doing well. They will become the new middle class, the electricians, plumbers, etc… and eventually their own kids will be lawyers, doctors and politicians.
By the way, I have hired Rufus to do work for me… he’s nice and did a good job, but talking to him aggravates me. Plus he’s not cheap. Rufus would say how fucking Obama is ruining the country, that we should bomb the shit out of Iran, blah, blah…. totally ignorant retard stuff.[/quote]
Not sure I agree about Julio’s grandkids being doctors. Julio’s approach to education ain’t in the same ballpark as Chaoxiang’s. It ain’t in the same league. It ain’t even the same fuckin’ sport. Heck, even Todd – our suburban white guy – values education vastly more than Julio.
Why waste time on an ingrate? Because it’s not his fault that he’s an ingrate (in my opinion). If it’s not Tyrone’s fault that he’s a ganster, then it’s not Rufus’s fault that he’s an ingrate.
Right now, whether Rufus realizes it or not (he doesn’t), the government spends boatloads of money on him. And we, the taxpayers, will continue to spend money on him for as long as he’s stuck in a cycle of ignorance. So you could look at it from a selfish point of view and say that if we educate him instead of giving him food stamps, we’ll eventually stop having to support him. Why keep giving him fish, if we can teach him how to fish?
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]
I admire and respect people who despite modest upbringings embrace and revere knowledge and education. As parents they do right by their kids who will succeed in the 21st century.[/quote]
Ok, there you go. If you admire those people, then you’re saying that you can see that they’ve overcome an obstacle. That obstacle (their culture and upbringing) is what resulted in them making those choices. And that’s what I’m saying. They face an obstacle. That obstacle is their environment and their upbringing (same as Tyrone). I’m saying we should help them overcome that obstacle.
I admire people who overcome modest upbringings, as well. But I don’t expect everyone – or even most people – who endure modest upbringings to overcome them. I think that only truly admirable people will do that. The majority won’t, unless they have some help. And that’s what I think we should give them.
[quote=FlyerInHi]
He doesn’t say it but we need to get rid of deplorable retrograde culture.[/quote]I totally agree with that. In fact, that’s exactly the point of what I’m saying. If you educate this generation, the next will follow. (Ok, it might take a few generations.) Both for Rufus and Tyrone. And Julio, for that matter. Sure, Julio wants to feed his family. And if he doesn’t start caring about education, that, and nothing more, is all he’ll ever be able to do.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]
Rufus has all the advantages but he’s just fucked up in head. [/quote]
Well, if he’s fucked up in the head, and he’s fucked up in the head because of his environment (are you suggesting otherwise?), then he doesn’t have all the advantages, now, does he?
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=zk]But screw the Chaoxiangs, they have enough already.
I kid, of course. Anyway, we don’t teach Chaoxiangs about prosperity; we learn from them.[/quote]
The Chaoxiangs learned the ways of capitalism and trade. They studied, worked hard, played by the rules the western elites laid out at Bretton-Woods then WTO. They rightly deserve the rewards.[/quote]
They learn whatever they have to learn wherever they go. They prosper around the globe. They, unlike Rufus, are not concerned whether they’re the favored ones or not. They don’t need to be favored. They come to terms with their lot, whatever it may start out as, and then they work their asses off – for generations, if necessary – until they get where they want to be. They don’t whine or complain or talk. They just do.
Participant[quote=flu][quote=zk]
I get flu’s point that somebody has to be at the bottom. But I think that if we could lift up all the Tyrones and all the Rufuses (and all the Julios, while were at it), we’d have a better, happier, more prosperous country.[/quote]
It’s not about not helping those out open to the help. It’s about wasting time and energy on those who don’t want to be helped and are content to be narrow minded and self limiting.
Why waste you time helping people out that don’t appreciate it? There are plenty of people that would.[/quote]
I think I understood what you were saying; I apologize if I misrepresented it.
My point is that perhaps it’s not their fault that they’re narrow-minded and self limiting, and that we could help them escape that mind set. And, in the process, improve the lot of our country as a whole.
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