Forum Replies Created
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zk
Participant[quote=Hobie]Dude. We all read the same biased media and would never consider using bombs in a political statement.
Evil is evil and needs to be dealt with swiftly and accordingly. That might help keep these kind of people in their basements and not feel empowered to commit crimes.[/quote]
Apparently not all (would never consider using bombs).
I agree that evil is evil and needs to be dealt with swiftly. I think that most people agree with that. And when you start convincing people that a certain person or group of people is evil (as opposed to expressing your opinion that they’re merely bad for the country), then you’re going to have some of those people deal swiftly with what they see as evil. That is exactly the problem.
ParticipantBombs sent to Clintons, Obama, and Soros.
I don’t think that happens without all the brainwashing going on by right-wing media.
These fools have had it pounded into their heads that Bill and Hillary and George (and Harry and Nancy etc.) are evil. Day in and day out for years and years that’s what they’ve been reading. Bill and Hillary and democrats in general are godless, gun-grabbing, immigrant-encouraging, child molesting, murderous, evil beings who need to be stopped before they get to you and your family.
It’s as much the fault of right-wing media as it is of those brainwashed fools that the fools believe it.
As I’ve said before, I think this is ruining our country, and I don’t see a solution.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]I predict Heidi Heitkamp loses and Beto wins in Texas. We will see the continuing reorder of politics based on rural vs urban. As the big city suburbs become more urban, they will turn blue.[/quote]
I’d be very surprised if Beto wins. Ecstatic, but surprised. I’ll be canvassing for him in Austin later this month while I visit my sister there. Go Beto!
Participant[quote=utcsox][quote=outtamojo]So I guess this is the best conservative judge out there ? Nah, probably the only one willing to play their brand of ball.
Meanwhile McConnell says he wont be intimidated by protesters, iow he has no compunction to listen to the will of the people.[/quote]tbf, there is nonzero chance that Trump will nominate Jeanine Pirro to be the next Supreme Court justice if Kavanaugh vote fail. The question if you are a Republican senator is will you take that chance by not confirming Kavanaugh..[/quote]
Nonsense. If he nominates her, just don’t confirm her. Only the nuttiest of the nuts would have a problem with that.
Participant[quote=outtamojo]If anything kills the blue wave it will be overconfidence and staying home because all the polls say it’s in the bag.[/quote]
I agree. That’s also part of the 2016 story.
Participant[quote=flu]….so….
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/politics/republican-party-favorability/index.html
if there is a large blue wave coming, how come, as reported by CNN, the gallop poll is saying GOP holds a 45% favorability rating and Democrats hold a 44%?
[/quote]The democrats (from what I’ve read) need to hold the 194 house seats they have and flip 24 republican seats to gain a majority in the house. I would call that a blue wave.
If you don’t think that’s going to happen (democrats gaining a majority in the house), and you want to lay a thousand dollars on your prediction, pm me.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]
Zk, talking about anonymous, how that the sexual allegations against Brett Kavanaugh are not longer anonymous, I wonder if women will believe the accuser.
I personally think that men at pigs generally and society always minimalized their piggish behavior as “boys will be boys.”
[/quote]
While behavior such as that described by the victim is extremely serious and should never be minimized…
And, while I despise Kavanaugh, and while I think making him a SCOTUS judge has the potential to significantly set women back in this country…
Setting a precedent where any person can derail a confirmation or election of a person by alleging previously unmentioned (or only privately mentioned, and not using names) crimes would, in my opinion, be dangerous.
Every candidate who ever runs for office henceforth runs the risk of some nut job from the opposition party making up a story. They can take anything they ever told their therapist and say, “that was about (candidate x).”
I’m not saying Ms. Ford is a nut job. I’m saying that those who follow this precedent in the future might be. I’m saying that even if the current allegation is true – which, to my untrained and relatively uninformed eye, it seems to probably be – the above still applies.
Anybody can say, “(candidate x) did this to me. How come you don’t believe me? The evidence is the same as when Kavanaugh’s confirmation was blocked.” And I’m not sure what the answer would be.
[quote=FlyerInHi]
We discussed this before, and with #metoo, the information economy and girls getting more educated than boys, it’s the beginning of male privilege. It’s only the beginning because women are still defending the piggish behavior of their men and sons. Women don’t seem to have the “sisterhood” the same way that men have “brotherhood.”
American women seem to be behind women in the developed world…
[/quote]
I presume you meant to say, “the beginning of the end of male privilege.”
Male privilege has been on the decline in this country for some time. But the fight is oh-so-far from over. Unfortunately, we have a long way to go even in this country. Sure, maybe some countries are a little bit ahead of us. But in much of the Middle East, and some other parts of the developed world, and in huge swaths of the third world and the undeveloped world, male privilege is rampant. In many places it’s not even questioned to any significant degree.
The only way to fix this particular problem (SCOTUS appointments) is at the ballot box. Unfortunately, progressives and rational people in general blew it at the ballot box in 2016. Not enough of us showed up. We (all Americans except rich people) are going to be paying the price for that for a long, long, long time.
Let’s not make that mistake again in 2020. Or in 2018. Or ever again.
Participant[quote=flu]I wouldn’t consider that trump voters are smarter or dumber than Obama voters that fell for “hope and change”….
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I disagree. Anyone who couldn’t tell – before the election – that trump was impulsive, narcissistic, vindictive, belligerent, childish, petty, unstable, misogynistic, xenophobic, lazy, delusional, amoral, unintelligent, ignorant, concerned with no one and nothing but himself, a bully, a cheater, a liar, and a fool and therefore entirely unlikely to accomplish anything good seems like they’d have to be pretty much an idiot. If they could tell and didn’t care… also an idiot.
Also, selling hope and change and delivering a steady hand and stable government is entirely different from selling make America great “again” and delivering an attack on the rule of law, an attack on the free press, a destructive trade war, rampant corruption, a degraded society, a generally incompetent and chaotic administration, a blizzard of lies, toadying up to a foreign power which interfered in our elections, angering several close allies, and seriously degrading the morale and effectiveness of the state department.
Participant[quote=flu]Look at this way.
In elections there are 3 groups of people…
There are the people that are solid right that will always vote Republican, no matter what.
There are the people that are solid blue that will always vote democrat no matter what.
Neither of them will really decide the outcome of an election.
The only votes that really matter are the swing votes that could go either way….
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Actually, there’s another group. The people who don’t usually vote. And millions of those people are energized by their disgust with trump and with the republicans who enable him.
Participant[quote=flu]
If you were in this situation and had a choice between letting your family starve or supporting and adminstration that promises to make you whole by taking away benefits from someone else, most of us would do the exact same thing.
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Well, the key word here is “promises.” Only if I believed those promises would I vote for such an administration. Although I think “fell for” would describe it better in this case. And I don’t think nearly as many people would fall for what trump is saying if he didn’t have a massive propaganda operation behind him.
[quote=flu]
The democratic party ,I am afraid, had not offered a compelling alternative yet to these swing voters
[/quote]The democratic party hasn’t offered anything “compelling” to anyone in decades. I guess “hope and change” was mildly interesting, but it was quite vague and not really all that grand. Hillary, as brilliant and tough as she is, had pretty much zero vision. Part of the problem is that people want a great and compelling vision from their candidates when, in reality, any great and compelling vision is most likely a bunch of bs. So a candidate (or a party) has to choose between 1) selling a grand, compelling, bullshit vision or 2) plotting a course that will keep our country and our economy and our society on a steadily upward path. The democrats choose to sell the latter, and it just doesn’t sell.
Participant[quote=flu]
I didn’t say every democrat is a fool, that was your choice of words interjected into my thoughts which couldn’t be further from the truth.
[/quote]I didn’t say those were your words. (Nor did I think I implied that they were.) Those were my words. And I should have been more specific. I didn’t mean every democrat. I meant the democratic party (not every single one of them, but most in general) – the DNC and the senators and the congressmen, etc.
[quote=flu]
and that’s what exactly is happening . extreme view points. Many democrats and republicans are falling for it. no I don’t watch fox news or breibart , and yet I disagree with your viewpoint you probably immediate think I do.
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I didn’t guess that you watch fox because you disagree with me. In fact, all we’ve disagreed on so far is whether there will be a blue wave and why.I guessed you watch fox because you seem to think that immigration is progressives’ chief concern. Fox (and a lot of right-wing media) seems to think that, and really no one else does.
[quote=flu]
I think many people in this country are just sick and tired about extremism from both parties. And me thinks a lot of democrats, have been pushed to the other side in as much as several republicans have been.Plenty of moderates republicans still are left that don’t agree with the rest of our party, but here you are labeling everyone the same.
we haven’t learned anything for the past 12 years .
[/quote]
What? Where am I labelling everyone the same?
[quote=flu]Anyway, I am just pointing out the polarization of our country that both parties have been responsible for something people can choose to understand and fix next time, or we can keep violently swinging back and forth like between one sided perspectives for a long long time.
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I don’t think that’s happening right now is a polarization of conservative vs. progressive views. I think what’s happening right now is polarization about an unfit leader. Most of the energy among progressives right now isn’t about conservative issues (except maybe the tax cuts for the rich). Most of it is about trump.[quote=flu]
just one tiny issue. I find it hard to believe that every democrat agree with affirmative action. I suspect many of them strongly disagree with it… However , how come the idea of AA reform has never been brought up by democrats? Could it be that every democrat is just going with the party flow, irrespective of how bad things have gotten for some? If so, how is that any different from a bunch of republicans just running off the cliff with Donald trump?
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Come on, flu. You’re really comparing going with the flow on AA vs. going with the flow on trump? AA is an important issue. (I’m against AA, as I’ve said on these pages before). But to compare it with the national emergency that is Donald trump is absurd.[quote=flu]
That’s the problem with our political parties … members often are so extreme same thing rehashed by s different party brand is viewed good bit from a different party is bad.
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And on an issue like affirmative action, or something equally important (which is to say, relative to the issue of trump, not that important), one can expect that to happen. It’s unfortunate, but it’s not the end of the world. Trump, on the other hand, could be.[quote=flu]
Just a few years ago, a lot of democrats were pushing Obama for protective tariffs. now that we have them, some of the same leaders are saying how horrible it is…
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Again, just because you’re for one tariff doesn’t mean you’re for all of them. A poorly-thought out tariff which exists solely for political purposes and which actually costs Americans jobs is not the same as a well-designed one which is designed for (and serves) an economic purpose.
[quote=flu]I am pretty much done on this subject . I don’t want to get into a argument here. basically I have a feeling that trying to discuss this will you will end up on you calling me a dumb trumptard, despite me not liking him and not really supporting most of his policies except one.
[/quote]Wow. Not sure where that came from. If you show yourself to be a dumb trumptard, I will call you one. If you don’t, I won’t. I defy you to find a single instance of me calling anyone a name in all of my history on this forum who I can’t show you exactly where they earned it with their own writing.
[quote=flu]
It’s usually how it goes when we get hell bent on party affiliation. Me? I couldnt give a shit about either party affiliation.[/quote]
I don’t care about either party, either. I care about our country. I’ll be voting democrat this November because I care about our country and I think trump needs to be corralled. Not because I have any affection for democrats, but because they’re the ones who will corral trump.
Participant[quote=flu]
you really think there is a massive blue wave?
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Yes, I do. Well, maybe not massive, but big. Am I certain? Far from it.
[quote=flu]
Stats say that when then economy is humming along, incumbent party stays in control.
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Normally, maybe. This isn’t normal. I think you underestimate the energy on the left right now.[quote=flu]
That’s why all the talk from the blue side and blue leaning media avoids talking about the economy. Me thinks for most people , it’s good.
I think outside of the blue states like CA, most of the rest of the country only really care about 1 thing. Jobs.
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I think you underestimate the voters. Progressives actually do care about other people. And about our society. And about the rule of law in this country.[quote=flu]
I mean what counter pitch can blue candidates make? We need to increase taxes to pay for more benefits? How would this win if the economy is doing alright and unemployment is at a low and most people are working and we finally have some wage growth now, as reported by the same system that’s been used even before this administration?
I don’t think Americans on the fence will change their vote simply because someone at the oval office is a dispicable person. And unfortunately, those most affected by this administration can’t vote (at least not legally).
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First off, it’s more than just trump being a despicable person. It’s the damage he’s causing to our society. It’s the feeling that we’re turning into a deplorable country with deplorable people led by a man not fit to pump gas. I think that’s more important to people than you think it is to them.It’s also about the rule of law in this country. Trump keeps trying to weaken the Department of Justice. Trying to weaken it and fill it with sycophants who will do his bidding instead of administering the rule of law.
And it’s not just fence-sitters who will be the change in this election. It will be the millions of people who sat on their ass last election but are now energized to vote to change the direction we’re going in.
I’d like to think people are smart enough to know that trump deserves almost no credit for the current state of the economy. And smart enough to realize that much of the money their grandchildren will earn in their lifetimes has already been given to rich people by trump. But that would be wishful thinking. In any case, I think there’s more energy out there on the left about congressional republican cowardice in the face of trump’s damaging ways than you seem to think there is.
[quote=flu]
The funny part is all this thing about peotective tariffs , curbing H1Bs, making more in US, and punishing businesses that outsource overseas is not typically something that comes out of the GOP. It’s something that normally comes out of unions and the Democrats…..the most vocal about foreign competition and anti-“free trade” were all the labor unions and workers losing their manufacturing jobs ….. So from their prospective, I don’t think things are worse. and I seriously doubt they care about some migrants plight at the hands of ICE.
[/quote]If tariffs usually come from the left, that does not mean that liberals would agree with the tariffs employed by trump. That would be like saying every hawk would want to nuke North Korea at the slightest provocation. There are tariffs and then there are tariffs which are just slapped on willy nilly to appeal to one’s base and which haven’t been thought through and which make no sense. Trump’s tariffs are costing jobs in the long run.
[quote=flu]
I seriously doubt they care about some migrants plight at the hands of ICE.
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Why do you doubt that?[quote=flu]
That’s why I think what most of the democrat party and the left leaning media trying to do is very ineffective. I think the only people that care about this administration’s despicableness are the folks in blue states like CA and NY, who generally have had it good economically throughout the past few years who can afford to care more about the social issues, including migrants/immigrants/etc…. For the rest of middle america, most people are more concerned aboutjust putting food on the table…..That’s why I think there’s a pretty big disconnect with the current Democrat’s party leadership. Barking up the wrong tree…imho.
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The “left leaning media” are reporting the news.The democratic party is a bunch of ineffectual fools.
The democratic voters see what’s happening to our country, and they don’t like it.
[quote=flu]
The democrat party probably won’t win by a landslide and regain full control if it’s trying to make the argument that some immigrant/migrant/foreigner should have the same economic rights/benefits as someone who is a citizen in america in desperate needs of those benefits….It has nothing to do about human decency, and has everything to do with human survival..
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That’s not the chief argument liberals are making. That might be what fox propaganda tells you is the chief argument that liberals are making. But it’s not.[quote=flu]
There are plenty of people in this country struggling and have been struggling for so long, they don’t understand politicians that seem to more concerned about helping people that aren’t even americans before helping them… That’s a losing campaign… That’s why they’ll end up putting up with a despicable Trump versus any sort of polite, polished individual from the left championing migrant/immigrant/DACA rights….. Unlike some of us, who are more or less immune to the economic situation in the US……..when you are struggling financially in America, you have no choice….
The issue about helping migrants/immigrants/DACA/etc has been positioned/perceived as a zero-sum game in which many americans feel they lose economically if those migrants/immigrants/DACA folks win economically. I don’t agree that is really true, but a lot of people think that way. And so, for those people, obviously the care more about their own future than someone else’s…. For that reason, I think some democrats still don’t get that yet.[/quote]
Again, you seem to have gotten the idea that the chief argument being made for voting democratic is immigration. Immigration is way, way down on the list. The chief reasons for voting democratic are to keep trump from destroying our society and our country. To prevent him from destroying the rule of law in this country and turning it into a fascist banana republic. To keep a dangerous, unstable fool from having his way.
You may think the economy matters to people above all, regardless of who should get credit for it. I disagree. I guess we’ll see in two months.
ParticipantEvidence that my theory is correct. Right-wing rag “The Washington Examiner” is praising the anonymous op-ed in just the way you’d expect.
ParticipantI’m not sure why I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. But I was. It’s pretty clear at this point that you’re nothing but a troll.
EconTroll.
So feeble.
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