Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
ucodegen
ParticipantI’m fortunate that, until this year, my employer was pretty generous in how much they covered. I did not count the employer contribution since that was NOT out of my pocket.
I found that including employer contrib really did change the numbers, as well as the rate you applied for internal rate of return (I ran it both ways)
This isn’t the first time I’ve done your exercise… When high deductable HSA plans were rolled out a few years ago I started doing this every year. So far, it doesn’t make sense… but being an anal engineer – I’ll keep doing the math every year.
As do I.. for me, it didn’t pencil out. I do have to start watching for colon polyps soon because one side of the family had colon cancer, though it could also have been their nutritional behavior too.
Good for you for saving >$700k, but it’s not useful for public policy. Maybe 1% of the country could practically save $250k to self-insure a family, and it would take them a decade to get there. And once they got there, would they even notice the cost of a high-deductible policy?
Why deny the ability to pay direct to those that can and/or have the discipline to save up enough to do this? You also have to realize that for most people, they will never have anything near this cost. Insurance reduces the risk of the big one.. but it also increases the cost if you try to use it for regular visits.
I only know what I heard from the widow at the time. I do know the liver was (at the least one of the) thing they couldn’t fix.
Had to be from something different then the accident.. but worsened by the accident. If you have cirrhosis, the liver will not repair itself well from impact injury.
ParticipantI’m fortunate that, until this year, my employer was pretty generous in how much they covered. I did not count the employer contribution since that was NOT out of my pocket.
I found that including employer contrib really did change the numbers, as well as the rate you applied for internal rate of return (I ran it both ways)
This isn’t the first time I’ve done your exercise… When high deductable HSA plans were rolled out a few years ago I started doing this every year. So far, it doesn’t make sense… but being an anal engineer – I’ll keep doing the math every year.
As do I.. for me, it didn’t pencil out. I do have to start watching for colon polyps soon because one side of the family had colon cancer, though it could also have been their nutritional behavior too.
Good for you for saving >$700k, but it’s not useful for public policy. Maybe 1% of the country could practically save $250k to self-insure a family, and it would take them a decade to get there. And once they got there, would they even notice the cost of a high-deductible policy?
Why deny the ability to pay direct to those that can and/or have the discipline to save up enough to do this? You also have to realize that for most people, they will never have anything near this cost. Insurance reduces the risk of the big one.. but it also increases the cost if you try to use it for regular visits.
I only know what I heard from the widow at the time. I do know the liver was (at the least one of the) thing they couldn’t fix.
Had to be from something different then the accident.. but worsened by the accident. If you have cirrhosis, the liver will not repair itself well from impact injury.
Participantjust because you can do it doesn’t mean that millions of other can.
Are you saying tough luck to those who can’t follow your example?
Nope, but I do expect some aspect of discipline.. not necessarily a ‘crap-load’. It is wrong to be self indulgent and then ask someone else to pay for it.
The final bill (delivered to his widow, but paid by MediCal) was over $700k. Would your self-insurance cover that?
Yes, and have money left over. I would check why the bill was so high though. $700k in two weeks is crazy – even with surgeries etc.
Or, if not… it’s worth noting that Cully was conscious much of the time; they just couldn’t fix his liver.
This statement makes me very suspicious of your example. The liver is the one organ on the body that is capable of healing itself. NOTE: as I mentioned before; I was sufficiently ill as to be jaundiced – this was due to a serious liver injury/infection (not hepatitis). The only cause for liver problems tends to be injuries through disease, drinking, genetics or cancer. You can cut a piece off the liver and it grows back. No other organ of the body can do that.
Would you have asked them to let you die when when the bill exceeded your savings balance?
If it looked like I was not going to recover, yes, I would be ask to be allowed to die. I have a DNR.
Highly slanted ‘for-instances’ you posted.
Participantjust because you can do it doesn’t mean that millions of other can.
Are you saying tough luck to those who can’t follow your example?
Nope, but I do expect some aspect of discipline.. not necessarily a ‘crap-load’. It is wrong to be self indulgent and then ask someone else to pay for it.
The final bill (delivered to his widow, but paid by MediCal) was over $700k. Would your self-insurance cover that?
Yes, and have money left over. I would check why the bill was so high though. $700k in two weeks is crazy – even with surgeries etc.
Or, if not… it’s worth noting that Cully was conscious much of the time; they just couldn’t fix his liver.
This statement makes me very suspicious of your example. The liver is the one organ on the body that is capable of healing itself. NOTE: as I mentioned before; I was sufficiently ill as to be jaundiced – this was due to a serious liver injury/infection (not hepatitis). The only cause for liver problems tends to be injuries through disease, drinking, genetics or cancer. You can cut a piece off the liver and it grows back. No other organ of the body can do that.
Would you have asked them to let you die when when the bill exceeded your savings balance?
If it looked like I was not going to recover, yes, I would be ask to be allowed to die. I have a DNR.
Highly slanted ‘for-instances’ you posted.
Participantjust because you can do it doesn’t mean that millions of other can.
Are you saying tough luck to those who can’t follow your example?
Nope, but I do expect some aspect of discipline.. not necessarily a ‘crap-load’. It is wrong to be self indulgent and then ask someone else to pay for it.
The final bill (delivered to his widow, but paid by MediCal) was over $700k. Would your self-insurance cover that?
Yes, and have money left over. I would check why the bill was so high though. $700k in two weeks is crazy – even with surgeries etc.
Or, if not… it’s worth noting that Cully was conscious much of the time; they just couldn’t fix his liver.
This statement makes me very suspicious of your example. The liver is the one organ on the body that is capable of healing itself. NOTE: as I mentioned before; I was sufficiently ill as to be jaundiced – this was due to a serious liver injury/infection (not hepatitis). The only cause for liver problems tends to be injuries through disease, drinking, genetics or cancer. You can cut a piece off the liver and it grows back. No other organ of the body can do that.
Would you have asked them to let you die when when the bill exceeded your savings balance?
If it looked like I was not going to recover, yes, I would be ask to be allowed to die. I have a DNR.
Highly slanted ‘for-instances’ you posted.
Participantjust because you can do it doesn’t mean that millions of other can.
Are you saying tough luck to those who can’t follow your example?
Nope, but I do expect some aspect of discipline.. not necessarily a ‘crap-load’. It is wrong to be self indulgent and then ask someone else to pay for it.
The final bill (delivered to his widow, but paid by MediCal) was over $700k. Would your self-insurance cover that?
Yes, and have money left over. I would check why the bill was so high though. $700k in two weeks is crazy – even with surgeries etc.
Or, if not… it’s worth noting that Cully was conscious much of the time; they just couldn’t fix his liver.
This statement makes me very suspicious of your example. The liver is the one organ on the body that is capable of healing itself. NOTE: as I mentioned before; I was sufficiently ill as to be jaundiced – this was due to a serious liver injury/infection (not hepatitis). The only cause for liver problems tends to be injuries through disease, drinking, genetics or cancer. You can cut a piece off the liver and it grows back. No other organ of the body can do that.
Would you have asked them to let you die when when the bill exceeded your savings balance?
If it looked like I was not going to recover, yes, I would be ask to be allowed to die. I have a DNR.
Highly slanted ‘for-instances’ you posted.
Participantjust because you can do it doesn’t mean that millions of other can.
Are you saying tough luck to those who can’t follow your example?
Nope, but I do expect some aspect of discipline.. not necessarily a ‘crap-load’. It is wrong to be self indulgent and then ask someone else to pay for it.
The final bill (delivered to his widow, but paid by MediCal) was over $700k. Would your self-insurance cover that?
Yes, and have money left over. I would check why the bill was so high though. $700k in two weeks is crazy – even with surgeries etc.
Or, if not… it’s worth noting that Cully was conscious much of the time; they just couldn’t fix his liver.
This statement makes me very suspicious of your example. The liver is the one organ on the body that is capable of healing itself. NOTE: as I mentioned before; I was sufficiently ill as to be jaundiced – this was due to a serious liver injury/infection (not hepatitis). The only cause for liver problems tends to be injuries through disease, drinking, genetics or cancer. You can cut a piece off the liver and it grows back. No other organ of the body can do that.
Would you have asked them to let you die when when the bill exceeded your savings balance?
If it looked like I was not going to recover, yes, I would be ask to be allowed to die. I have a DNR.
Highly slanted ‘for-instances’ you posted.
ParticipantNo offense intended. Wish we could all afford to keep enough liquid assets to cover all health needs. In an imperfect world we do need health insurance. I am not a fan of how it is run — in the least — but was trying to point out the necessity of coming to an agreement on how to cover the costs for at least most of the people
It took a crap load of discipline. And once I got laid off, it really benefited me because I had the nasty combination of being w/o job and real sick. The costs didn’t even put a nick in what I had put away. I wish it could have been pre-tax though. If I had done the insurance route, I wouldn’t have been that fortunate.
I think the need for insurance needs to be better discussed, because there are other ways to do it. I liked the Blue Shield method until they went for profit. That is why I proposed the ‘exercise’. When people have to pay for something in monthly increments, they usually forget what the total cost ends up being. Can anyone quickly state what multiple of the initial purchase price that one eventually pays when using a mortgage? ‘the bill’ eventually has to be paid somehow. Either it is effectively from money saved or by distributing the costs. Insurance does not make it go away automagically. Insurance is most effective for managing risks, not for driving down the cost. Right now the biggest problem we have is run-away costs.
ParticipantNo offense intended. Wish we could all afford to keep enough liquid assets to cover all health needs. In an imperfect world we do need health insurance. I am not a fan of how it is run — in the least — but was trying to point out the necessity of coming to an agreement on how to cover the costs for at least most of the people
It took a crap load of discipline. And once I got laid off, it really benefited me because I had the nasty combination of being w/o job and real sick. The costs didn’t even put a nick in what I had put away. I wish it could have been pre-tax though. If I had done the insurance route, I wouldn’t have been that fortunate.
I think the need for insurance needs to be better discussed, because there are other ways to do it. I liked the Blue Shield method until they went for profit. That is why I proposed the ‘exercise’. When people have to pay for something in monthly increments, they usually forget what the total cost ends up being. Can anyone quickly state what multiple of the initial purchase price that one eventually pays when using a mortgage? ‘the bill’ eventually has to be paid somehow. Either it is effectively from money saved or by distributing the costs. Insurance does not make it go away automagically. Insurance is most effective for managing risks, not for driving down the cost. Right now the biggest problem we have is run-away costs.
ParticipantNo offense intended. Wish we could all afford to keep enough liquid assets to cover all health needs. In an imperfect world we do need health insurance. I am not a fan of how it is run — in the least — but was trying to point out the necessity of coming to an agreement on how to cover the costs for at least most of the people
It took a crap load of discipline. And once I got laid off, it really benefited me because I had the nasty combination of being w/o job and real sick. The costs didn’t even put a nick in what I had put away. I wish it could have been pre-tax though. If I had done the insurance route, I wouldn’t have been that fortunate.
I think the need for insurance needs to be better discussed, because there are other ways to do it. I liked the Blue Shield method until they went for profit. That is why I proposed the ‘exercise’. When people have to pay for something in monthly increments, they usually forget what the total cost ends up being. Can anyone quickly state what multiple of the initial purchase price that one eventually pays when using a mortgage? ‘the bill’ eventually has to be paid somehow. Either it is effectively from money saved or by distributing the costs. Insurance does not make it go away automagically. Insurance is most effective for managing risks, not for driving down the cost. Right now the biggest problem we have is run-away costs.
ParticipantNo offense intended. Wish we could all afford to keep enough liquid assets to cover all health needs. In an imperfect world we do need health insurance. I am not a fan of how it is run — in the least — but was trying to point out the necessity of coming to an agreement on how to cover the costs for at least most of the people
It took a crap load of discipline. And once I got laid off, it really benefited me because I had the nasty combination of being w/o job and real sick. The costs didn’t even put a nick in what I had put away. I wish it could have been pre-tax though. If I had done the insurance route, I wouldn’t have been that fortunate.
I think the need for insurance needs to be better discussed, because there are other ways to do it. I liked the Blue Shield method until they went for profit. That is why I proposed the ‘exercise’. When people have to pay for something in monthly increments, they usually forget what the total cost ends up being. Can anyone quickly state what multiple of the initial purchase price that one eventually pays when using a mortgage? ‘the bill’ eventually has to be paid somehow. Either it is effectively from money saved or by distributing the costs. Insurance does not make it go away automagically. Insurance is most effective for managing risks, not for driving down the cost. Right now the biggest problem we have is run-away costs.
ParticipantNo offense intended. Wish we could all afford to keep enough liquid assets to cover all health needs. In an imperfect world we do need health insurance. I am not a fan of how it is run — in the least — but was trying to point out the necessity of coming to an agreement on how to cover the costs for at least most of the people
It took a crap load of discipline. And once I got laid off, it really benefited me because I had the nasty combination of being w/o job and real sick. The costs didn’t even put a nick in what I had put away. I wish it could have been pre-tax though. If I had done the insurance route, I wouldn’t have been that fortunate.
I think the need for insurance needs to be better discussed, because there are other ways to do it. I liked the Blue Shield method until they went for profit. That is why I proposed the ‘exercise’. When people have to pay for something in monthly increments, they usually forget what the total cost ends up being. Can anyone quickly state what multiple of the initial purchase price that one eventually pays when using a mortgage? ‘the bill’ eventually has to be paid somehow. Either it is effectively from money saved or by distributing the costs. Insurance does not make it go away automagically. Insurance is most effective for managing risks, not for driving down the cost. Right now the biggest problem we have is run-away costs.
ParticipantI would have supported a bill supporting a health savings bill, where one saves for medical needs, and for which certain critical treatments are negotiated. Well, I guess we suck as a nation at saving, so that probably won’t work.
This is what I was hoping for.. plus the ability to allow the savings plan to be passed on/inherited. Add in not being able to be canceled out of a policy you have been paying into for years just because you now became a liability to the insurance company, ban on region pricing for pharmaceuticals (well at least one of these got into the bill). Looking at why hospital rooms are so expensive would also have been useful.
As I have mentioned as well as others. The current bill that was passed through Congress has nothing about reducing costs. There were some very simple things that could have been passed to reduce costs significantly to the benefit of all citizens. Instead, they had to go for a 2,000+page monstrosity.
The real problem is the costs to anyone needing health care. Mandating insurance does nothing for the costs. It actually makes it harder to push for the reduction. It hides them under another bureaucratic layer that also happens to have a profit motive.
ParticipantI would have supported a bill supporting a health savings bill, where one saves for medical needs, and for which certain critical treatments are negotiated. Well, I guess we suck as a nation at saving, so that probably won’t work.
This is what I was hoping for.. plus the ability to allow the savings plan to be passed on/inherited. Add in not being able to be canceled out of a policy you have been paying into for years just because you now became a liability to the insurance company, ban on region pricing for pharmaceuticals (well at least one of these got into the bill). Looking at why hospital rooms are so expensive would also have been useful.
As I have mentioned as well as others. The current bill that was passed through Congress has nothing about reducing costs. There were some very simple things that could have been passed to reduce costs significantly to the benefit of all citizens. Instead, they had to go for a 2,000+page monstrosity.
The real problem is the costs to anyone needing health care. Mandating insurance does nothing for the costs. It actually makes it harder to push for the reduction. It hides them under another bureaucratic layer that also happens to have a profit motive.
-
AuthorPosts
