[ucodegen]

Interesting that you should mention this. I have been looking at the same thing.

I have seen nice things produced in Google Sketchup. In playing with the free version, I found the interface a little difficult and ambiguous. I also found it hard to make things to exact scale. There is pay version of Sketchup, but I wasn’t going to front the cash for that because of what I saw in the free version. Sketchup also has the ability to add plug-in modules.

I’ll will get back to this with more info later.

[ucodegen]

Interesting that you should mention this. I have been looking at the same thing.

I have seen nice things produced in Google Sketchup. In playing with the free version, I found the interface a little difficult and ambiguous. I also found it hard to make things to exact scale. There is pay version of Sketchup, but I wasn’t going to front the cash for that because of what I saw in the free version. Sketchup also has the ability to add plug-in modules.

I’ll will get back to this with more info later.

[ucodegen]

Interesting that you should mention this. I have been looking at the same thing.

I have seen nice things produced in Google Sketchup. In playing with the free version, I found the interface a little difficult and ambiguous. I also found it hard to make things to exact scale. There is pay version of Sketchup, but I wasn’t going to front the cash for that because of what I saw in the free version. Sketchup also has the ability to add plug-in modules.

I’ll will get back to this with more info later.

[ucodegen]

[quote walterwhite]Too much gold? I don’t know. You can print money a lot faster than u can mine gold. I think we did this thread when gild was. 80 or so and the general sense was gold was vastly overpriced.[/quote]
Sounds like the same reasoning that got us here.. after all, you can’t build new houses very fast and they are not creating any more land… Better buy before you get priced out.

[ucodegen]

[quote walterwhite]Too much gold? I don’t know. You can print money a lot faster than u can mine gold. I think we did this thread when gild was. 80 or so and the general sense was gold was vastly overpriced.[/quote]
Sounds like the same reasoning that got us here.. after all, you can’t build new houses very fast and they are not creating any more land… Better buy before you get priced out.

[ucodegen]

[quote walterwhite]Too much gold? I don’t know. You can print money a lot faster than u can mine gold. I think we did this thread when gild was. 80 or so and the general sense was gold was vastly overpriced.[/quote]
Sounds like the same reasoning that got us here.. after all, you can’t build new houses very fast and they are not creating any more land… Better buy before you get priced out.

[ucodegen]

[quote walterwhite]Too much gold? I don’t know. You can print money a lot faster than u can mine gold. I think we did this thread when gild was. 80 or so and the general sense was gold was vastly overpriced.[/quote]
Sounds like the same reasoning that got us here.. after all, you can’t build new houses very fast and they are not creating any more land… Better buy before you get priced out.

[ucodegen]

[quote walterwhite]Too much gold? I don’t know. You can print money a lot faster than u can mine gold. I think we did this thread when gild was. 80 or so and the general sense was gold was vastly overpriced.[/quote]
Sounds like the same reasoning that got us here.. after all, you can’t build new houses very fast and they are not creating any more land… Better buy before you get priced out.

[ucodegen]

[quote GH]There is a concept of money on the sidelines which never really comes into play then there is the money which is actually in play, then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money (until a crash), when it suddenly becomes very real and very serious.[/quote]
You are listening too closely to the ‘talking heads’.

“Money on the Sidelines” – talking heads use this to imply that people are waiting to buy and you better rush in before the money on the sidelines does. In reality, there is no such ‘sideline’. The ‘money’ will be allocated to cash, commodities, stocks, bonds, put under the mattress.. or a combination of the aforementioned.

then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money – Actually credit default swaps are not money. It is closer to a liability than an asset. In reality it is an insurance policy. Derivatives are closer to combined loan-asset ‘packages’.

[quote GH]which means the derivatives and credit swaps come into play as millions of individuals and businesses fail and their debts are made whole in a bizarre world where debt and money are created and destroyed with little relationship to it’s underlying value.[/quote]
Actually it is intimately tied to the underlying asset. A credit default swap covers the difference between the debt used to fund the purchase of an asset and the value that the asset fetches on BK/foreclosure/default. The person who loaned the money for the asset pays a monthly/yearly fee for the credit default swap.

[quote GH]For the banks this is great as they loaned nothing and get paid with real dollars and thus will end up owning more than 100% of everything.[/quote] Then explained why so many large banking institutions went T-U? The banks actually loaned with real money. This was money that they either borrowed, from cash holdings or depositors. The banks used credit default swaps to make sure they could cover the losses should the borrower default (a credit default swap is an insurance policy against default – ie credit-default and hence its name. The organizations underwriting the the credit default swap don’t want to call it an insurance policy because it would cause it to be regulated as an insurance item.. so they got creative and called it a ‘swap’.). The only one that could ‘create’ money from thin air is the Fed through direction from US Congress.

[quote GH]For the people this is very bad as we have seen the middle class in America strip mined… [/quote]
The middle class is getting ‘strip mined’ because it lost focus and started to think that a property (house, car, RV) bought with a loan is really a free and clear asset and demonstrates how much they are really worth. They ignored the liability in the form of the loan (A loan is an asset for a bank though..). The middle class is also getting ‘strip mined’ because it listens and believes the talking heads and doesn’t bother to educate themselves on financial matters — buy on your Discover/Visa/Master Card today!!! who cares that you have to cover it at a 19% interest rate later! The FICO score became the all-knowing rating, even though it is based primarily on credit cards.

[ucodegen]

[quote GH]There is a concept of money on the sidelines which never really comes into play then there is the money which is actually in play, then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money (until a crash), when it suddenly becomes very real and very serious.[/quote]
You are listening too closely to the ‘talking heads’.

“Money on the Sidelines” – talking heads use this to imply that people are waiting to buy and you better rush in before the money on the sidelines does. In reality, there is no such ‘sideline’. The ‘money’ will be allocated to cash, commodities, stocks, bonds, put under the mattress.. or a combination of the aforementioned.

then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money – Actually credit default swaps are not money. It is closer to a liability than an asset. In reality it is an insurance policy. Derivatives are closer to combined loan-asset ‘packages’.

[quote GH]which means the derivatives and credit swaps come into play as millions of individuals and businesses fail and their debts are made whole in a bizarre world where debt and money are created and destroyed with little relationship to it’s underlying value.[/quote]
Actually it is intimately tied to the underlying asset. A credit default swap covers the difference between the debt used to fund the purchase of an asset and the value that the asset fetches on BK/foreclosure/default. The person who loaned the money for the asset pays a monthly/yearly fee for the credit default swap.

[quote GH]For the banks this is great as they loaned nothing and get paid with real dollars and thus will end up owning more than 100% of everything.[/quote] Then explained why so many large banking institutions went T-U? The banks actually loaned with real money. This was money that they either borrowed, from cash holdings or depositors. The banks used credit default swaps to make sure they could cover the losses should the borrower default (a credit default swap is an insurance policy against default – ie credit-default and hence its name. The organizations underwriting the the credit default swap don’t want to call it an insurance policy because it would cause it to be regulated as an insurance item.. so they got creative and called it a ‘swap’.). The only one that could ‘create’ money from thin air is the Fed through direction from US Congress.

[quote GH]For the people this is very bad as we have seen the middle class in America strip mined… [/quote]
The middle class is getting ‘strip mined’ because it lost focus and started to think that a property (house, car, RV) bought with a loan is really a free and clear asset and demonstrates how much they are really worth. They ignored the liability in the form of the loan (A loan is an asset for a bank though..). The middle class is also getting ‘strip mined’ because it listens and believes the talking heads and doesn’t bother to educate themselves on financial matters — buy on your Discover/Visa/Master Card today!!! who cares that you have to cover it at a 19% interest rate later! The FICO score became the all-knowing rating, even though it is based primarily on credit cards.

[ucodegen]

[quote GH]There is a concept of money on the sidelines which never really comes into play then there is the money which is actually in play, then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money (until a crash), when it suddenly becomes very real and very serious.[/quote]
You are listening too closely to the ‘talking heads’.

“Money on the Sidelines” – talking heads use this to imply that people are waiting to buy and you better rush in before the money on the sidelines does. In reality, there is no such ‘sideline’. The ‘money’ will be allocated to cash, commodities, stocks, bonds, put under the mattress.. or a combination of the aforementioned.

then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money – Actually credit default swaps are not money. It is closer to a liability than an asset. In reality it is an insurance policy. Derivatives are closer to combined loan-asset ‘packages’.

[quote GH]which means the derivatives and credit swaps come into play as millions of individuals and businesses fail and their debts are made whole in a bizarre world where debt and money are created and destroyed with little relationship to it’s underlying value.[/quote]
Actually it is intimately tied to the underlying asset. A credit default swap covers the difference between the debt used to fund the purchase of an asset and the value that the asset fetches on BK/foreclosure/default. The person who loaned the money for the asset pays a monthly/yearly fee for the credit default swap.

[quote GH]For the banks this is great as they loaned nothing and get paid with real dollars and thus will end up owning more than 100% of everything.[/quote] Then explained why so many large banking institutions went T-U? The banks actually loaned with real money. This was money that they either borrowed, from cash holdings or depositors. The banks used credit default swaps to make sure they could cover the losses should the borrower default (a credit default swap is an insurance policy against default – ie credit-default and hence its name. The organizations underwriting the the credit default swap don’t want to call it an insurance policy because it would cause it to be regulated as an insurance item.. so they got creative and called it a ‘swap’.). The only one that could ‘create’ money from thin air is the Fed through direction from US Congress.

[quote GH]For the people this is very bad as we have seen the middle class in America strip mined… [/quote]
The middle class is getting ‘strip mined’ because it lost focus and started to think that a property (house, car, RV) bought with a loan is really a free and clear asset and demonstrates how much they are really worth. They ignored the liability in the form of the loan (A loan is an asset for a bank though..). The middle class is also getting ‘strip mined’ because it listens and believes the talking heads and doesn’t bother to educate themselves on financial matters — buy on your Discover/Visa/Master Card today!!! who cares that you have to cover it at a 19% interest rate later! The FICO score became the all-knowing rating, even though it is based primarily on credit cards.

[ucodegen]

[quote GH]There is a concept of money on the sidelines which never really comes into play then there is the money which is actually in play, then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money (until a crash), when it suddenly becomes very real and very serious.[/quote]
You are listening too closely to the ‘talking heads’.

“Money on the Sidelines” – talking heads use this to imply that people are waiting to buy and you better rush in before the money on the sidelines does. In reality, there is no such ‘sideline’. The ‘money’ will be allocated to cash, commodities, stocks, bonds, put under the mattress.. or a combination of the aforementioned.

then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money – Actually credit default swaps are not money. It is closer to a liability than an asset. In reality it is an insurance policy. Derivatives are closer to combined loan-asset ‘packages’.

[quote GH]which means the derivatives and credit swaps come into play as millions of individuals and businesses fail and their debts are made whole in a bizarre world where debt and money are created and destroyed with little relationship to it’s underlying value.[/quote]
Actually it is intimately tied to the underlying asset. A credit default swap covers the difference between the debt used to fund the purchase of an asset and the value that the asset fetches on BK/foreclosure/default. The person who loaned the money for the asset pays a monthly/yearly fee for the credit default swap.

[quote GH]For the banks this is great as they loaned nothing and get paid with real dollars and thus will end up owning more than 100% of everything.[/quote] Then explained why so many large banking institutions went T-U? The banks actually loaned with real money. This was money that they either borrowed, from cash holdings or depositors. The banks used credit default swaps to make sure they could cover the losses should the borrower default (a credit default swap is an insurance policy against default – ie credit-default and hence its name. The organizations underwriting the the credit default swap don’t want to call it an insurance policy because it would cause it to be regulated as an insurance item.. so they got creative and called it a ‘swap’.). The only one that could ‘create’ money from thin air is the Fed through direction from US Congress.

[quote GH]For the people this is very bad as we have seen the middle class in America strip mined… [/quote]
The middle class is getting ‘strip mined’ because it lost focus and started to think that a property (house, car, RV) bought with a loan is really a free and clear asset and demonstrates how much they are really worth. They ignored the liability in the form of the loan (A loan is an asset for a bank though..). The middle class is also getting ‘strip mined’ because it listens and believes the talking heads and doesn’t bother to educate themselves on financial matters — buy on your Discover/Visa/Master Card today!!! who cares that you have to cover it at a 19% interest rate later! The FICO score became the all-knowing rating, even though it is based primarily on credit cards.

[ucodegen]

[quote GH]There is a concept of money on the sidelines which never really comes into play then there is the money which is actually in play, then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money (until a crash), when it suddenly becomes very real and very serious.[/quote]
You are listening too closely to the ‘talking heads’.

“Money on the Sidelines” – talking heads use this to imply that people are waiting to buy and you better rush in before the money on the sidelines does. In reality, there is no such ‘sideline’. The ‘money’ will be allocated to cash, commodities, stocks, bonds, put under the mattress.. or a combination of the aforementioned.

then there is money which through credit default swaps and derivatives etc, which mirrors other money but is more along the lines of imaginary money – Actually credit default swaps are not money. It is closer to a liability than an asset. In reality it is an insurance policy. Derivatives are closer to combined loan-asset ‘packages’.

[quote GH]which means the derivatives and credit swaps come into play as millions of individuals and businesses fail and their debts are made whole in a bizarre world where debt and money are created and destroyed with little relationship to it’s underlying value.[/quote]
Actually it is intimately tied to the underlying asset. A credit default swap covers the difference between the debt used to fund the purchase of an asset and the value that the asset fetches on BK/foreclosure/default. The person who loaned the money for the asset pays a monthly/yearly fee for the credit default swap.

[quote GH]For the banks this is great as they loaned nothing and get paid with real dollars and thus will end up owning more than 100% of everything.[/quote] Then explained why so many large banking institutions went T-U? The banks actually loaned with real money. This was money that they either borrowed, from cash holdings or depositors. The banks used credit default swaps to make sure they could cover the losses should the borrower default (a credit default swap is an insurance policy against default – ie credit-default and hence its name. The organizations underwriting the the credit default swap don’t want to call it an insurance policy because it would cause it to be regulated as an insurance item.. so they got creative and called it a ‘swap’.). The only one that could ‘create’ money from thin air is the Fed through direction from US Congress.

[quote GH]For the people this is very bad as we have seen the middle class in America strip mined… [/quote]
The middle class is getting ‘strip mined’ because it lost focus and started to think that a property (house, car, RV) bought with a loan is really a free and clear asset and demonstrates how much they are really worth. They ignored the liability in the form of the loan (A loan is an asset for a bank though..). The middle class is also getting ‘strip mined’ because it listens and believes the talking heads and doesn’t bother to educate themselves on financial matters — buy on your Discover/Visa/Master Card today!!! who cares that you have to cover it at a 19% interest rate later! The FICO score became the all-knowing rating, even though it is based primarily on credit cards.

[ucodegen]

[quote AK]You alarmist fool, the U.S. dollar is backed by … um … I dunno, Treasury bonds or something?[/quote]
Nope.. it is a fiat currency. It is backed by ‘faith’ in the US economic system. Wiki def. It is a ‘floating’ currency that serves as an ‘intermediary’ for exchange, but has no ‘intrinsic value’ in and of itself.

When that faith fails, or when the government starts printing more of its fiat currency(or changes-reduced reserve ratios, drops interest rates).. the representative value of the fiat currency vs a hard asset drops. The representative value of the fiat currency actually increases when the opposite happens.

[quote SK in CV]Precisely what is the relationship between the gold in fort knox and the amount spent on economic and quantitative stimulus? Why does that relationship exist?[/quote]
There is no such relationship.

[quote SK in CV]I would propose that it is entirely artificial, that gold has no significant intrinsic value and as a monetary unit is purely a social construct. (Unlike, for instance, oil or wheat.)[/quote]
All items have values that are in part social constructs. This includes both oil and gold. Imagine what would happen if people figured out how to make engines (for vehicles, electrical generators, etc) that were 80% efficient? The demand and therefore the price for oil would drop. What if the price of solar collectors dropped and efficiencies exceeded 30%? That would affect oil prices as well as prices on electrical generation.

[quote walterwhite]all monetary units are social constructs.

gold is the only monetary unit that will never completely fail.[/quote]
If it is a social construct, it can fail. The question is the odds of it happening. Large gold discovery would severely depress the price and not all places have been explored. Gold is dense, making it much less likely to get to the surface from the core of the earth. There is also much more gold that has been extracted than people realize (it is not as rare as other elements.) and its price presently exceeds its relative scarcity and economic desirability. Look up the ‘Platinum group metals’..

[quote walterwhite]gold is beautiful and humans love beauty.[/quote]
But the definition of beauty is relative. There is an interesting old style “Twilight Zone” short on that.

[ucodegen]

[quote AK]You alarmist fool, the U.S. dollar is backed by … um … I dunno, Treasury bonds or something?[/quote]
Nope.. it is a fiat currency. It is backed by ‘faith’ in the US economic system. Wiki def. It is a ‘floating’ currency that serves as an ‘intermediary’ for exchange, but has no ‘intrinsic value’ in and of itself.

When that faith fails, or when the government starts printing more of its fiat currency(or changes-reduced reserve ratios, drops interest rates).. the representative value of the fiat currency vs a hard asset drops. The representative value of the fiat currency actually increases when the opposite happens.

[quote SK in CV]Precisely what is the relationship between the gold in fort knox and the amount spent on economic and quantitative stimulus? Why does that relationship exist?[/quote]
There is no such relationship.

[quote SK in CV]I would propose that it is entirely artificial, that gold has no significant intrinsic value and as a monetary unit is purely a social construct. (Unlike, for instance, oil or wheat.)[/quote]
All items have values that are in part social constructs. This includes both oil and gold. Imagine what would happen if people figured out how to make engines (for vehicles, electrical generators, etc) that were 80% efficient? The demand and therefore the price for oil would drop. What if the price of solar collectors dropped and efficiencies exceeded 30%? That would affect oil prices as well as prices on electrical generation.

[quote walterwhite]all monetary units are social constructs.

gold is the only monetary unit that will never completely fail.[/quote]
If it is a social construct, it can fail. The question is the odds of it happening. Large gold discovery would severely depress the price and not all places have been explored. Gold is dense, making it much less likely to get to the surface from the core of the earth. There is also much more gold that has been extracted than people realize (it is not as rare as other elements.) and its price presently exceeds its relative scarcity and economic desirability. Look up the ‘Platinum group metals’..

[quote walterwhite]gold is beautiful and humans love beauty.[/quote]
But the definition of beauty is relative. There is an interesting old style “Twilight Zone” short on that.

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