[Shadowfax]

[quote=surveyor]Ah, the “moral equivalence” argument. If we were in their shoes, we would be doing the same thing. Unfortunately, this is also a logical fallacy because it compares apples and oranges. It is actually more correct to say that the moral equivalence argument is at best simplistic because it does not allow for extreme degrees of difference.

It is fact that muslims must wage war against the infidels. It is in the Koran (verse 4294). While it is extremely true that most muslims are unwilling to go to war, the fact that islam requires war against the infidel is a very compelling draw to many muslims.

There is no similar call to war in the New Testament. That is why you rarely see christian suicide bombers, while muslim suicide bombers number in the thousands.

And insisting on creationism in schools (which I disagree with) hardly compares to teaching that christians and jews are the descendants of apes and pigs (also a core teaching within the Koran).

Also, a core belief in islam is that you are not allowed to question or criticize islam. So any self-examination would be discouraged forcefully. Ask how the freedom of press is in overly islamic societies and you’ll find it is extremely repressive. In the U.S., criticism is a sports event and extremely valued.

So anyways, to buttress my position, I have the koran texts agreeing with me, I have history agreeing with me, and then I have logic agreeing with me. [/quote]

Most of this argument presumes that humans act logically. Face it, they don’t. What motivates people is human nature and self-interest. They frequently like to hide behind other vehicles to promote their self-interest–religion, politics–that make their self-interest seem noble or even devine. Christians have done more than their fair share of war-waging. Anyone heard of the Inquisition? There may be no call to war in the New Testament but that didn’t stop people (and still doesn’t) from using that religion as a spring-board to propel their self-interests through war. Bush is a prime example–“Man of faith” willing to torture and kill people. And I don’t know if he and his blindly loyal followers even see the dichotomy.

The reason Islam is so successful in the middle east and parts of Africa is that these people have nothing to lose. They have families but they don’t have much else in life. (You don’t see many sons of the Saudi royal family involved in suicide bombings, but I’d bet you could track financial support back in that direction.) Islam gives them a future reward for present acts, as does Christianity. In a stunning lack of acumen, the US has not done much to “make friends” with these people. Our golden age has been tarnished by our bungling of the post-9/11 outpouring of support. I hope we can get it back…we’re going to need all the help and allies we can get.

[Shadowfax]

[quote=surveyor]Ah, the “moral equivalence” argument. If we were in their shoes, we would be doing the same thing. Unfortunately, this is also a logical fallacy because it compares apples and oranges. It is actually more correct to say that the moral equivalence argument is at best simplistic because it does not allow for extreme degrees of difference.

It is fact that muslims must wage war against the infidels. It is in the Koran (verse 4294). While it is extremely true that most muslims are unwilling to go to war, the fact that islam requires war against the infidel is a very compelling draw to many muslims.

There is no similar call to war in the New Testament. That is why you rarely see christian suicide bombers, while muslim suicide bombers number in the thousands.

And insisting on creationism in schools (which I disagree with) hardly compares to teaching that christians and jews are the descendants of apes and pigs (also a core teaching within the Koran).

Also, a core belief in islam is that you are not allowed to question or criticize islam. So any self-examination would be discouraged forcefully. Ask how the freedom of press is in overly islamic societies and you’ll find it is extremely repressive. In the U.S., criticism is a sports event and extremely valued.

So anyways, to buttress my position, I have the koran texts agreeing with me, I have history agreeing with me, and then I have logic agreeing with me. [/quote]

Most of this argument presumes that humans act logically. Face it, they don’t. What motivates people is human nature and self-interest. They frequently like to hide behind other vehicles to promote their self-interest–religion, politics–that make their self-interest seem noble or even devine. Christians have done more than their fair share of war-waging. Anyone heard of the Inquisition? There may be no call to war in the New Testament but that didn’t stop people (and still doesn’t) from using that religion as a spring-board to propel their self-interests through war. Bush is a prime example–“Man of faith” willing to torture and kill people. And I don’t know if he and his blindly loyal followers even see the dichotomy.

The reason Islam is so successful in the middle east and parts of Africa is that these people have nothing to lose. They have families but they don’t have much else in life. (You don’t see many sons of the Saudi royal family involved in suicide bombings, but I’d bet you could track financial support back in that direction.) Islam gives them a future reward for present acts, as does Christianity. In a stunning lack of acumen, the US has not done much to “make friends” with these people. Our golden age has been tarnished by our bungling of the post-9/11 outpouring of support. I hope we can get it back…we’re going to need all the help and allies we can get.

[Shadowfax]

[quote=surveyor]Ah, the “moral equivalence” argument. If we were in their shoes, we would be doing the same thing. Unfortunately, this is also a logical fallacy because it compares apples and oranges. It is actually more correct to say that the moral equivalence argument is at best simplistic because it does not allow for extreme degrees of difference.

It is fact that muslims must wage war against the infidels. It is in the Koran (verse 4294). While it is extremely true that most muslims are unwilling to go to war, the fact that islam requires war against the infidel is a very compelling draw to many muslims.

There is no similar call to war in the New Testament. That is why you rarely see christian suicide bombers, while muslim suicide bombers number in the thousands.

And insisting on creationism in schools (which I disagree with) hardly compares to teaching that christians and jews are the descendants of apes and pigs (also a core teaching within the Koran).

Also, a core belief in islam is that you are not allowed to question or criticize islam. So any self-examination would be discouraged forcefully. Ask how the freedom of press is in overly islamic societies and you’ll find it is extremely repressive. In the U.S., criticism is a sports event and extremely valued.

So anyways, to buttress my position, I have the koran texts agreeing with me, I have history agreeing with me, and then I have logic agreeing with me. [/quote]

Most of this argument presumes that humans act logically. Face it, they don’t. What motivates people is human nature and self-interest. They frequently like to hide behind other vehicles to promote their self-interest–religion, politics–that make their self-interest seem noble or even devine. Christians have done more than their fair share of war-waging. Anyone heard of the Inquisition? There may be no call to war in the New Testament but that didn’t stop people (and still doesn’t) from using that religion as a spring-board to propel their self-interests through war. Bush is a prime example–“Man of faith” willing to torture and kill people. And I don’t know if he and his blindly loyal followers even see the dichotomy.

The reason Islam is so successful in the middle east and parts of Africa is that these people have nothing to lose. They have families but they don’t have much else in life. (You don’t see many sons of the Saudi royal family involved in suicide bombings, but I’d bet you could track financial support back in that direction.) Islam gives them a future reward for present acts, as does Christianity. In a stunning lack of acumen, the US has not done much to “make friends” with these people. Our golden age has been tarnished by our bungling of the post-9/11 outpouring of support. I hope we can get it back…we’re going to need all the help and allies we can get.

[Shadowfax]

[quote=surveyor]Ah, the “moral equivalence” argument. If we were in their shoes, we would be doing the same thing. Unfortunately, this is also a logical fallacy because it compares apples and oranges. It is actually more correct to say that the moral equivalence argument is at best simplistic because it does not allow for extreme degrees of difference.

It is fact that muslims must wage war against the infidels. It is in the Koran (verse 4294). While it is extremely true that most muslims are unwilling to go to war, the fact that islam requires war against the infidel is a very compelling draw to many muslims.

There is no similar call to war in the New Testament. That is why you rarely see christian suicide bombers, while muslim suicide bombers number in the thousands.

And insisting on creationism in schools (which I disagree with) hardly compares to teaching that christians and jews are the descendants of apes and pigs (also a core teaching within the Koran).

Also, a core belief in islam is that you are not allowed to question or criticize islam. So any self-examination would be discouraged forcefully. Ask how the freedom of press is in overly islamic societies and you’ll find it is extremely repressive. In the U.S., criticism is a sports event and extremely valued.

So anyways, to buttress my position, I have the koran texts agreeing with me, I have history agreeing with me, and then I have logic agreeing with me. [/quote]

Most of this argument presumes that humans act logically. Face it, they don’t. What motivates people is human nature and self-interest. They frequently like to hide behind other vehicles to promote their self-interest–religion, politics–that make their self-interest seem noble or even devine. Christians have done more than their fair share of war-waging. Anyone heard of the Inquisition? There may be no call to war in the New Testament but that didn’t stop people (and still doesn’t) from using that religion as a spring-board to propel their self-interests through war. Bush is a prime example–“Man of faith” willing to torture and kill people. And I don’t know if he and his blindly loyal followers even see the dichotomy.

The reason Islam is so successful in the middle east and parts of Africa is that these people have nothing to lose. They have families but they don’t have much else in life. (You don’t see many sons of the Saudi royal family involved in suicide bombings, but I’d bet you could track financial support back in that direction.) Islam gives them a future reward for present acts, as does Christianity. In a stunning lack of acumen, the US has not done much to “make friends” with these people. Our golden age has been tarnished by our bungling of the post-9/11 outpouring of support. I hope we can get it back…we’re going to need all the help and allies we can get.

[Shadowfax]

I am getting a history (US and World) and poli sci degree reading all this. Keep at it guys! This sort of debate is what we should be seeing in the media. If they won’t do it, we’ll have to do it ourselves.

[Shadowfax]

I am getting a history (US and World) and poli sci degree reading all this. Keep at it guys! This sort of debate is what we should be seeing in the media. If they won’t do it, we’ll have to do it ourselves.

[Shadowfax]

I am getting a history (US and World) and poli sci degree reading all this. Keep at it guys! This sort of debate is what we should be seeing in the media. If they won’t do it, we’ll have to do it ourselves.

[Shadowfax]

I am getting a history (US and World) and poli sci degree reading all this. Keep at it guys! This sort of debate is what we should be seeing in the media. If they won’t do it, we’ll have to do it ourselves.

[Shadowfax]

I am getting a history (US and World) and poli sci degree reading all this. Keep at it guys! This sort of debate is what we should be seeing in the media. If they won’t do it, we’ll have to do it ourselves.

[Author]

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