[sdduuuude]

[quote=scaredycat]snipped: “Sorry. Slavery does not and cannot appear in a “free market” by definition. A “free market” being one where you are free from others infringing upon your personal and propety rights.”

but, uhh, slaves were property….
[/quote]

Slaves were defined as property by the government. That doesn’t make them property.

If you want to think that slavery can exist in a free market, you go right ahead.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=scaredycat]snipped: “Sorry. Slavery does not and cannot appear in a “free market” by definition. A “free market” being one where you are free from others infringing upon your personal and propety rights.”

but, uhh, slaves were property….
[/quote]

Slaves were defined as property by the government. That doesn’t make them property.

If you want to think that slavery can exist in a free market, you go right ahead.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=scaredycat]snipped: “Sorry. Slavery does not and cannot appear in a “free market” by definition. A “free market” being one where you are free from others infringing upon your personal and propety rights.”

but, uhh, slaves were property….
[/quote]

Slaves were defined as property by the government. That doesn’t make them property.

If you want to think that slavery can exist in a free market, you go right ahead.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=scaredycat]snipped: “Sorry. Slavery does not and cannot appear in a “free market” by definition. A “free market” being one where you are free from others infringing upon your personal and propety rights.”

but, uhh, slaves were property….
[/quote]

Slaves were defined as property by the government. That doesn’t make them property.

If you want to think that slavery can exist in a free market, you go right ahead.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=XBoxBoy]… I think the only way to get back to decent regulation, (either by govt or by self regulation) is to convince people that corruption is crushing our economy.[/quote]

I think that’s an excellent point.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=XBoxBoy]… I think the only way to get back to decent regulation, (either by govt or by self regulation) is to convince people that corruption is crushing our economy.[/quote]

I think that’s an excellent point.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=XBoxBoy]… I think the only way to get back to decent regulation, (either by govt or by self regulation) is to convince people that corruption is crushing our economy.[/quote]

I think that’s an excellent point.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=XBoxBoy]… I think the only way to get back to decent regulation, (either by govt or by self regulation) is to convince people that corruption is crushing our economy.[/quote]

I think that’s an excellent point.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=XBoxBoy]… I think the only way to get back to decent regulation, (either by govt or by self regulation) is to convince people that corruption is crushing our economy.[/quote]

I think that’s an excellent point.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=Arraya]Biospheric interactions are inherently cooperative in nature, not supremely competitive[/quote]

A deer killed by a pack of wolves may disagree. I’d say a pack of wolves working together to kill their prey is both competitive and cooperative.

[quote=Arraya]The human social construct of private ownership of the means of production that is our current economic system, a man-made institution fully dependent on social support… (without the social organization of military, police, and courts [you don’t think these just magically appear, do you? And you don’t think they’ve been with us for our entire history as a species, do you?] to keep the land under private ownership and control, it would fall apart immediately) is not mirrored in the natural world.[/quote]

Just because something is mirrored in the natural world doesn’t make it a good basis for a social system for humans. Just because it is not mirrored in the natural environment does not make it undesireable.

Insects eating their mates, mothers eating their young. Probably a good idea to make some laws in this area, though no such laws exist in nature, don’t you think. Or are these things “natural”?

[quote=Arraya]Capitalism is not cooperative in a holistic sense as life is.[/quote]

I disagree with this. Not cooperating in a free market is devastating. People know how to form groups, companies, partnerships, etc. to make a situation that is better for all involved. This happens all the time in a capitalistic society.

As long as you can regulate rights violations, a free market becomes a very holistic system whereby billions of people create a whole based on billions of interactions and decisons.

Compare this to a system being created by a small group of people making decisions for everyone. Is that more holistic? We see what happens when that one person (Greenspan, Bernanke) makes a mistake.

To be honest, regulating those violations is difficult in both a free market and a state-controlled one.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=Arraya]Biospheric interactions are inherently cooperative in nature, not supremely competitive[/quote]

A deer killed by a pack of wolves may disagree. I’d say a pack of wolves working together to kill their prey is both competitive and cooperative.

[quote=Arraya]The human social construct of private ownership of the means of production that is our current economic system, a man-made institution fully dependent on social support… (without the social organization of military, police, and courts [you don’t think these just magically appear, do you? And you don’t think they’ve been with us for our entire history as a species, do you?] to keep the land under private ownership and control, it would fall apart immediately) is not mirrored in the natural world.[/quote]

Just because something is mirrored in the natural world doesn’t make it a good basis for a social system for humans. Just because it is not mirrored in the natural environment does not make it undesireable.

Insects eating their mates, mothers eating their young. Probably a good idea to make some laws in this area, though no such laws exist in nature, don’t you think. Or are these things “natural”?

[quote=Arraya]Capitalism is not cooperative in a holistic sense as life is.[/quote]

I disagree with this. Not cooperating in a free market is devastating. People know how to form groups, companies, partnerships, etc. to make a situation that is better for all involved. This happens all the time in a capitalistic society.

As long as you can regulate rights violations, a free market becomes a very holistic system whereby billions of people create a whole based on billions of interactions and decisons.

Compare this to a system being created by a small group of people making decisions for everyone. Is that more holistic? We see what happens when that one person (Greenspan, Bernanke) makes a mistake.

To be honest, regulating those violations is difficult in both a free market and a state-controlled one.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=Arraya]Biospheric interactions are inherently cooperative in nature, not supremely competitive[/quote]

A deer killed by a pack of wolves may disagree. I’d say a pack of wolves working together to kill their prey is both competitive and cooperative.

[quote=Arraya]The human social construct of private ownership of the means of production that is our current economic system, a man-made institution fully dependent on social support… (without the social organization of military, police, and courts [you don’t think these just magically appear, do you? And you don’t think they’ve been with us for our entire history as a species, do you?] to keep the land under private ownership and control, it would fall apart immediately) is not mirrored in the natural world.[/quote]

Just because something is mirrored in the natural world doesn’t make it a good basis for a social system for humans. Just because it is not mirrored in the natural environment does not make it undesireable.

Insects eating their mates, mothers eating their young. Probably a good idea to make some laws in this area, though no such laws exist in nature, don’t you think. Or are these things “natural”?

[quote=Arraya]Capitalism is not cooperative in a holistic sense as life is.[/quote]

I disagree with this. Not cooperating in a free market is devastating. People know how to form groups, companies, partnerships, etc. to make a situation that is better for all involved. This happens all the time in a capitalistic society.

As long as you can regulate rights violations, a free market becomes a very holistic system whereby billions of people create a whole based on billions of interactions and decisons.

Compare this to a system being created by a small group of people making decisions for everyone. Is that more holistic? We see what happens when that one person (Greenspan, Bernanke) makes a mistake.

To be honest, regulating those violations is difficult in both a free market and a state-controlled one.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=Arraya]Biospheric interactions are inherently cooperative in nature, not supremely competitive[/quote]

A deer killed by a pack of wolves may disagree. I’d say a pack of wolves working together to kill their prey is both competitive and cooperative.

[quote=Arraya]The human social construct of private ownership of the means of production that is our current economic system, a man-made institution fully dependent on social support… (without the social organization of military, police, and courts [you don’t think these just magically appear, do you? And you don’t think they’ve been with us for our entire history as a species, do you?] to keep the land under private ownership and control, it would fall apart immediately) is not mirrored in the natural world.[/quote]

Just because something is mirrored in the natural world doesn’t make it a good basis for a social system for humans. Just because it is not mirrored in the natural environment does not make it undesireable.

Insects eating their mates, mothers eating their young. Probably a good idea to make some laws in this area, though no such laws exist in nature, don’t you think. Or are these things “natural”?

[quote=Arraya]Capitalism is not cooperative in a holistic sense as life is.[/quote]

I disagree with this. Not cooperating in a free market is devastating. People know how to form groups, companies, partnerships, etc. to make a situation that is better for all involved. This happens all the time in a capitalistic society.

As long as you can regulate rights violations, a free market becomes a very holistic system whereby billions of people create a whole based on billions of interactions and decisons.

Compare this to a system being created by a small group of people making decisions for everyone. Is that more holistic? We see what happens when that one person (Greenspan, Bernanke) makes a mistake.

To be honest, regulating those violations is difficult in both a free market and a state-controlled one.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=Arraya]Biospheric interactions are inherently cooperative in nature, not supremely competitive[/quote]

A deer killed by a pack of wolves may disagree. I’d say a pack of wolves working together to kill their prey is both competitive and cooperative.

[quote=Arraya]The human social construct of private ownership of the means of production that is our current economic system, a man-made institution fully dependent on social support… (without the social organization of military, police, and courts [you don’t think these just magically appear, do you? And you don’t think they’ve been with us for our entire history as a species, do you?] to keep the land under private ownership and control, it would fall apart immediately) is not mirrored in the natural world.[/quote]

Just because something is mirrored in the natural world doesn’t make it a good basis for a social system for humans. Just because it is not mirrored in the natural environment does not make it undesireable.

Insects eating their mates, mothers eating their young. Probably a good idea to make some laws in this area, though no such laws exist in nature, don’t you think. Or are these things “natural”?

[quote=Arraya]Capitalism is not cooperative in a holistic sense as life is.[/quote]

I disagree with this. Not cooperating in a free market is devastating. People know how to form groups, companies, partnerships, etc. to make a situation that is better for all involved. This happens all the time in a capitalistic society.

As long as you can regulate rights violations, a free market becomes a very holistic system whereby billions of people create a whole based on billions of interactions and decisons.

Compare this to a system being created by a small group of people making decisions for everyone. Is that more holistic? We see what happens when that one person (Greenspan, Bernanke) makes a mistake.

To be honest, regulating those violations is difficult in both a free market and a state-controlled one.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=SK in CV]The prohibition against slavery is a government standard. Not a free market or libertarian standard. Prior to that government standard, it (slavery) existed in the free market.[/quote]

Sorry. Slavery does not and cannot appear in a “free market” by definition. A “free market” being one where you are free from others infringing upon your personal and propety rights.

The fact that slavery was allowed without pentaly was the government standard in place at the time.

I believe that the laws of economics are natural and not determined through the state.

Economics is a pretty nebulous thing. Hard to say if it is natural or not. I say it is just a way of describing and sometimes predicting behavior. I can’t say if that behavior (i.e. trade) is “natural” or not. But, it does happen, whether government is involved or not.

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