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To add to CA R’s post – society simply changed. You can’t turn the clock back. We are not going to live like our (grand)parents. It’s just that simple. Like color TV. Or High speed internet and computers and cell phones. They are needed, and you are expected to have the latter in many jobs. You are expected to drive (or be chauffeured) to a lot of places, beside work. Sure, you can save some by not buying the latest models, or buy used, or cheaper, generic brands and such.

I am talking macroscopic, as a group, about the average middle class person. I am sure there are middle class families who have to, or really want to pinch pennies, that can squeeze by without having those, or buying expired food, shop only at Goodwill, etc. but let’s face it, they are in a small minority. In the generation past, our parents (again, in general, on average) did not have to go to extreme measure to live happily on one income just the same as their friends and neighbors were doing. It’s not about keeping up with Joneses. The buying power of the”median” was just very different.

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Wow, that was a long rant. I kind of skimmed thru it and I’ll reply more to it tomorrow. I strongly believe that the home prices have been set so that you need two income household. There is no doubt in my mind about that. I have looked at many areas within 20 miles of our work place and there is NO freaking way I could afford a 3-4 bdr home on ONE salary, even if it’s 100K. Hell, I almost don’t think I can afford it on TWO incomes!

Yes there are ways to live cheaper, but it takes a lot of effort, time and planning, and most people won’t do it. Let’s face it, we as a generation ARE poorer than our parents. Who owned pretty LARGE houses in their early 30s on ONE income AND pay their child college tuition from their salary (not thru 15 years of savings like we will be doing, without even coming close to covering the tuition at good out of state school).

I tell you how the expenses differ from the yesteryear – median housing expenses, daycare, college, healthcare. It’s not nearly as much as you think about over-consumerism, though that plays a role too. I am sure you were NOT paying half your take-home salary for daycare for example. You also were not paying rents that were even more than that. Very hard to save money even with 2 non-executive salaries when you pay over $2000 rent, $1300 daycare, etc. etc.

FWIW, we are “behind” most of our peers/friends/coworkers in buying a house, and only recently bought a 2nd car because the 12 yr old one was just becoming unreliable . We don’t even have a flat plasma tv or HBO. Definitely not a SUV. I don’t know how they managed to buy, many had help from family which we didn’t and somehow I don’t think they are all going to end up in foreclosure – again I am sure the family will help.

[quote=bearishgurl]Part of the problem is that potential buyers drive around and observe these presumably single-income families already living in these newer “middle class” tracts. If these families purchased within the last 7 years, it is likely that not only are they “underwater,” but they may very well still be living off home equity they removed (while the getting was good). When those funds are exhausted, they will likely no longer be able to keep up their “over-consumption” facade or even pay for basic necessities [/quote]

Well, then I’ll be waiting for all those guys to be forced to short sell their houses, or get foreclosed, which I am sure will drive the prices down. Maybe I’ll even end up buying one of THIER houses, LOL.

The only thing I’d change in the quote above is single=income with double-income. But yeah, we drive around or visit them and see them and think, well, if they can afford it we should be able to also. Though we don’t feel comfortable with that. Doesn’t make sense.That’s what so frustrating.

[Scarlett]

Wow, that was a long rant. I kind of skimmed thru it and I’ll reply more to it tomorrow. I strongly believe that the home prices have been set so that you need two income household. There is no doubt in my mind about that. I have looked at many areas within 20 miles of our work place and there is NO freaking way I could afford a 3-4 bdr home on ONE salary, even if it’s 100K. Hell, I almost don’t think I can afford it on TWO incomes!

Yes there are ways to live cheaper, but it takes a lot of effort, time and planning, and most people won’t do it. Let’s face it, we as a generation ARE poorer than our parents. Who owned pretty LARGE houses in their early 30s on ONE income AND pay their child college tuition from their salary (not thru 15 years of savings like we will be doing, without even coming close to covering the tuition at good out of state school).

I tell you how the expenses differ from the yesteryear – median housing expenses, daycare, college, healthcare. It’s not nearly as much as you think about over-consumerism, though that plays a role too. I am sure you were NOT paying half your take-home salary for daycare for example. You also were not paying rents that were even more than that. Very hard to save money even with 2 non-executive salaries when you pay over $2000 rent, $1300 daycare, etc. etc.

FWIW, we are “behind” most of our peers/friends/coworkers in buying a house, and only recently bought a 2nd car because the 12 yr old one was just becoming unreliable . We don’t even have a flat plasma tv or HBO. Definitely not a SUV. I don’t know how they managed to buy, many had help from family which we didn’t and somehow I don’t think they are all going to end up in foreclosure – again I am sure the family will help.

[quote=bearishgurl]Part of the problem is that potential buyers drive around and observe these presumably single-income families already living in these newer “middle class” tracts. If these families purchased within the last 7 years, it is likely that not only are they “underwater,” but they may very well still be living off home equity they removed (while the getting was good). When those funds are exhausted, they will likely no longer be able to keep up their “over-consumption” facade or even pay for basic necessities [/quote]

Well, then I’ll be waiting for all those guys to be forced to short sell their houses, or get foreclosed, which I am sure will drive the prices down. Maybe I’ll even end up buying one of THIER houses, LOL.

The only thing I’d change in the quote above is single=income with double-income. But yeah, we drive around or visit them and see them and think, well, if they can afford it we should be able to also. Though we don’t feel comfortable with that. Doesn’t make sense.That’s what so frustrating.

[Scarlett]

Wow, that was a long rant. I kind of skimmed thru it and I’ll reply more to it tomorrow. I strongly believe that the home prices have been set so that you need two income household. There is no doubt in my mind about that. I have looked at many areas within 20 miles of our work place and there is NO freaking way I could afford a 3-4 bdr home on ONE salary, even if it’s 100K. Hell, I almost don’t think I can afford it on TWO incomes!

Yes there are ways to live cheaper, but it takes a lot of effort, time and planning, and most people won’t do it. Let’s face it, we as a generation ARE poorer than our parents. Who owned pretty LARGE houses in their early 30s on ONE income AND pay their child college tuition from their salary (not thru 15 years of savings like we will be doing, without even coming close to covering the tuition at good out of state school).

I tell you how the expenses differ from the yesteryear – median housing expenses, daycare, college, healthcare. It’s not nearly as much as you think about over-consumerism, though that plays a role too. I am sure you were NOT paying half your take-home salary for daycare for example. You also were not paying rents that were even more than that. Very hard to save money even with 2 non-executive salaries when you pay over $2000 rent, $1300 daycare, etc. etc.

FWIW, we are “behind” most of our peers/friends/coworkers in buying a house, and only recently bought a 2nd car because the 12 yr old one was just becoming unreliable . We don’t even have a flat plasma tv or HBO. Definitely not a SUV. I don’t know how they managed to buy, many had help from family which we didn’t and somehow I don’t think they are all going to end up in foreclosure – again I am sure the family will help.

[quote=bearishgurl]Part of the problem is that potential buyers drive around and observe these presumably single-income families already living in these newer “middle class” tracts. If these families purchased within the last 7 years, it is likely that not only are they “underwater,” but they may very well still be living off home equity they removed (while the getting was good). When those funds are exhausted, they will likely no longer be able to keep up their “over-consumption” facade or even pay for basic necessities [/quote]

Well, then I’ll be waiting for all those guys to be forced to short sell their houses, or get foreclosed, which I am sure will drive the prices down. Maybe I’ll even end up buying one of THIER houses, LOL.

The only thing I’d change in the quote above is single=income with double-income. But yeah, we drive around or visit them and see them and think, well, if they can afford it we should be able to also. Though we don’t feel comfortable with that. Doesn’t make sense.That’s what so frustrating.

[Scarlett]

Wow, that was a long rant. I kind of skimmed thru it and I’ll reply more to it tomorrow. I strongly believe that the home prices have been set so that you need two income household. There is no doubt in my mind about that. I have looked at many areas within 20 miles of our work place and there is NO freaking way I could afford a 3-4 bdr home on ONE salary, even if it’s 100K. Hell, I almost don’t think I can afford it on TWO incomes!

Yes there are ways to live cheaper, but it takes a lot of effort, time and planning, and most people won’t do it. Let’s face it, we as a generation ARE poorer than our parents. Who owned pretty LARGE houses in their early 30s on ONE income AND pay their child college tuition from their salary (not thru 15 years of savings like we will be doing, without even coming close to covering the tuition at good out of state school).

I tell you how the expenses differ from the yesteryear – median housing expenses, daycare, college, healthcare. It’s not nearly as much as you think about over-consumerism, though that plays a role too. I am sure you were NOT paying half your take-home salary for daycare for example. You also were not paying rents that were even more than that. Very hard to save money even with 2 non-executive salaries when you pay over $2000 rent, $1300 daycare, etc. etc.

FWIW, we are “behind” most of our peers/friends/coworkers in buying a house, and only recently bought a 2nd car because the 12 yr old one was just becoming unreliable . We don’t even have a flat plasma tv or HBO. Definitely not a SUV. I don’t know how they managed to buy, many had help from family which we didn’t and somehow I don’t think they are all going to end up in foreclosure – again I am sure the family will help.

[quote=bearishgurl]Part of the problem is that potential buyers drive around and observe these presumably single-income families already living in these newer “middle class” tracts. If these families purchased within the last 7 years, it is likely that not only are they “underwater,” but they may very well still be living off home equity they removed (while the getting was good). When those funds are exhausted, they will likely no longer be able to keep up their “over-consumption” facade or even pay for basic necessities [/quote]

Well, then I’ll be waiting for all those guys to be forced to short sell their houses, or get foreclosed, which I am sure will drive the prices down. Maybe I’ll even end up buying one of THIER houses, LOL.

The only thing I’d change in the quote above is single=income with double-income. But yeah, we drive around or visit them and see them and think, well, if they can afford it we should be able to also. Though we don’t feel comfortable with that. Doesn’t make sense.That’s what so frustrating.

[Scarlett]

Wow, that was a long rant. I kind of skimmed thru it and I’ll reply more to it tomorrow. I strongly believe that the home prices have been set so that you need two income household. There is no doubt in my mind about that. I have looked at many areas within 20 miles of our work place and there is NO freaking way I could afford a 3-4 bdr home on ONE salary, even if it’s 100K. Hell, I almost don’t think I can afford it on TWO incomes!

Yes there are ways to live cheaper, but it takes a lot of effort, time and planning, and most people won’t do it. Let’s face it, we as a generation ARE poorer than our parents. Who owned pretty LARGE houses in their early 30s on ONE income AND pay their child college tuition from their salary (not thru 15 years of savings like we will be doing, without even coming close to covering the tuition at good out of state school).

I tell you how the expenses differ from the yesteryear – median housing expenses, daycare, college, healthcare. It’s not nearly as much as you think about over-consumerism, though that plays a role too. I am sure you were NOT paying half your take-home salary for daycare for example. You also were not paying rents that were even more than that. Very hard to save money even with 2 non-executive salaries when you pay over $2000 rent, $1300 daycare, etc. etc.

FWIW, we are “behind” most of our peers/friends/coworkers in buying a house, and only recently bought a 2nd car because the 12 yr old one was just becoming unreliable . We don’t even have a flat plasma tv or HBO. Definitely not a SUV. I don’t know how they managed to buy, many had help from family which we didn’t and somehow I don’t think they are all going to end up in foreclosure – again I am sure the family will help.

[quote=bearishgurl]Part of the problem is that potential buyers drive around and observe these presumably single-income families already living in these newer “middle class” tracts. If these families purchased within the last 7 years, it is likely that not only are they “underwater,” but they may very well still be living off home equity they removed (while the getting was good). When those funds are exhausted, they will likely no longer be able to keep up their “over-consumption” facade or even pay for basic necessities [/quote]

Well, then I’ll be waiting for all those guys to be forced to short sell their houses, or get foreclosed, which I am sure will drive the prices down. Maybe I’ll even end up buying one of THIER houses, LOL.

The only thing I’d change in the quote above is single=income with double-income. But yeah, we drive around or visit them and see them and think, well, if they can afford it we should be able to also. Though we don’t feel comfortable with that. Doesn’t make sense.That’s what so frustrating.

[Scarlett]

Totally agreed with that.

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Totally agreed with that.

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Totally agreed with that.

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Totally agreed with that.

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Totally agreed with that.

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Thanks, I’ll take that in consideration and explore that option. I was also considering borrowing from 401K 10 yr loan at ~4.25%. 10% on a ~500K property is then about $500 a month. I just don’t know if the sellers would bother with something like that, or take that risk, even if they have the wherewithal. I wouldn’t – I’d wait for a buyer that doesn’t need my help, there are plenty. Finish the sale neatly and cleanly. Just me.

So, BG, what were the rules/questions you would ask for 30+ yr older properties, that are different than the ones before?

[Scarlett]

Thanks, I’ll take that in consideration and explore that option. I was also considering borrowing from 401K 10 yr loan at ~4.25%. 10% on a ~500K property is then about $500 a month. I just don’t know if the sellers would bother with something like that, or take that risk, even if they have the wherewithal. I wouldn’t – I’d wait for a buyer that doesn’t need my help, there are plenty. Finish the sale neatly and cleanly. Just me.

So, BG, what were the rules/questions you would ask for 30+ yr older properties, that are different than the ones before?

[Scarlett]

Thanks, I’ll take that in consideration and explore that option. I was also considering borrowing from 401K 10 yr loan at ~4.25%. 10% on a ~500K property is then about $500 a month. I just don’t know if the sellers would bother with something like that, or take that risk, even if they have the wherewithal. I wouldn’t – I’d wait for a buyer that doesn’t need my help, there are plenty. Finish the sale neatly and cleanly. Just me.

So, BG, what were the rules/questions you would ask for 30+ yr older properties, that are different than the ones before?

[Scarlett]

Thanks, I’ll take that in consideration and explore that option. I was also considering borrowing from 401K 10 yr loan at ~4.25%. 10% on a ~500K property is then about $500 a month. I just don’t know if the sellers would bother with something like that, or take that risk, even if they have the wherewithal. I wouldn’t – I’d wait for a buyer that doesn’t need my help, there are plenty. Finish the sale neatly and cleanly. Just me.

So, BG, what were the rules/questions you would ask for 30+ yr older properties, that are different than the ones before?

[Author]

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