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[quote=poorgradstudent]I’m certainly curious how the NRA will respond to the recent tragedies.[/quote]

Responded to wrong post..

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[quote=scaredyclassic]what persuades jurors in a trial?

theoretically it’s cold, rational analysis of facts and law.

but that is not how it really goes down in hotly disputed cases.[/quote]

Emotion. It’s all theater. People used to like my Dad (he passed away in 2011). He won cases that he really shouldn’t have because people (including jurors) liked him. It was fascinating to watch. The firm I worked with years ago had an enormous case and after it was over they were allowed to interview the jury. They asked the jurors if they had any questions (trying to find out if they could improve their delivery). The first was whether the lead counsel was married. Second was what brand of shoes the second chair was wearing. They didn’t care about the facts; they were interested in the people.

I see it in big and small matters. Lawyers forget that being likeable (not in a meek way) is a secret weapon

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[quote=no_such_reality][quote=svelte]

Calif schools also get funding from property taxes, which immigrants, illegal or not, are paying through the homes they lease – part of their rent goes to pay the owner’s property tax.[/quote]

While they might contribute some property tax, California spends $45 billion in general funds, roughly $7200 per pupil. With Federal funding, that rises to $76 billion, that rises to $12,100 per pupil.

I seriously doubt said children’s families are living in $1.25 million dollar homes to cover the cost of a single child. Let alone more than one child or any other services.[/quote]

Even assuming your analysis to be correct – most of the people on this board (from what I have seen of their descriptions) also don’t live in $1.25 million homes. So where does that leave you? With childless homeowners arguing that they should not be taxed to support the schools that they don’t use? It’s sort of the same situation – or maybe only people with kids in school should pay for the schools (?)

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[quote=scaredyclassic]unless it was in South Park. then its ok. but not in an actual campaign…[/quote]

I know what you mean, but why is this true? I suppose because SP is offensive in an equal opportunity kind of way. I seem to recall Isaac Hayes reading for the part of Chef and saying something to the effect of “I hope you have insurance” in an interview. Can’t find it anymore, though.

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[quote=SK in CV][quote=njtosd][quote=SK in CV][quote=FlyerInHi]

NSR, I do agree that Black people are often too sensitive and unnecesarily worry about being dissed. But I do understand why.

[/quote]
I don’t get this. If you’ve never been black (which I presume you haven’t), how can you possibly know if “Black people are often too sensitive”? You can’t possibly ever see anything from the perspective of a black man. And I can tell you from first hand experience, if you’ve ever been part of a minority that has been discriminated against, the world does not look the same.[/quote]

Just for the sake of argument – since you can only know your own perspective, whatever that may be, how can you know “the world does not look the same” as it does to someone else? That would require understanding two perspectives and comparing them, which you have said can’t be done. All that being said, I think the “too sensitive” comment was an unjustified sweeping generalization – but Brian knows I disagree with him most of the time.[/quote]

I guess I can’t know that the world does not look the same. What I do know is that I’ve been sensitive to what others have said or done, and others couldn’t see my perspective. But none of the others had ever opened up a job rejection letter that said “We won’t hire you because we don’t hire jew boys”.[/quote]

I think you would have a hard time finding someone who hasn’t been excluded from something for reasons of prejudice. Women, those who are short, tall, not wealthy, not attractive, not from a certain cultural background, etc, etc. have all felt it. In the Upper peninsula of Michigan, they make fun of (and discriminate against) the Finns. The key is finding a way to succeed notwithstanding the prejudice.

[njtosd]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=FlyerInHi]

NSR, I do agree that Black people are often too sensitive and unnecesarily worry about being dissed. But I do understand why.

[/quote]
I don’t get this. If you’ve never been black (which I presume you haven’t), how can you possibly know if “Black people are often too sensitive”? You can’t possibly ever see anything from the perspective of a black man. And I can tell you from first hand experience, if you’ve ever been part of a minority that has been discriminated against, the world does not look the same.[/quote]

Just for the sake of argument – since you can only know your own perspective, whatever that may be, how can you know “the world does not look the same” as it does to someone else? That would require understanding two perspectives and comparing them, which you have said can’t be done. All that being said, I think the “too sensitive” comment was an unjustified sweeping generalization – but Brian knows I disagree with him most of the time.

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[quote=harvey]

Can you find all the hate crimes committed in this poster?

I got to six and had to stop because I was overwhelmed with despair.

Such a horrible injustice inflicted on people of color.[/quote]

By the Red Cross? http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/american-red-cross-apologizes-for-pool-safety-poster-featuring-not-cool-black-kids

There’s a difference between stupidity and a hate crime.

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[quote=FlyerInHi]Njtosd, we are not educating the whole world. We are educating kids who are here and part of us.

And so what if they live part time in Mexico? They are here and will be working here.[/quote]

Why does it matter where the kids are? Education is a great thing. We should take care of everyone. I think it’s a little small minded to let territorial boundaries get in the way. Kids in Chihuahua are closer to me than the ones in Maine. Why should We discriminate at all? All children deserve the best.

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[quote=harvey][quote=njtosd]
Brexit aside – questioning the practical reality and costs associated with immigration does not make one, by definition, an ugly nativist anti immigration type. Almost 7% of kids K-12 in US schools have at least one parent who is undocumented. That is a significant issue and I am so tired of everyone acting like there’s a money tree somewhere that can pay for all of it. Everyone wants to be nice but there is not an endless supply of $.[/quote]

What’s the issue?

K-12 education is a long-term investment that society makes. Public education has historically provided huge returns.

All of American history teaches us that educating children, including the children of immigrants, has tremendous benefits for all Americans. There’s no reason why the documentation status of a child’s parents would change that outcome. Educating children in America – all children – is a win for everyone.[/quote]

I’ve noted that flu changed the title of this thread so I’m going to make this short. Anyone who has read a few of my posts should know I’m an independent that dislikes and distrusts both the Republicans and the Dems. I think there are reasonable arguments on the many sides of the immigration debate. I personally believe that the current population of undocumented immigrants in the US imposes an economic burden rather than a net economic benefit. The size of the burden, whether it exists, and whether we as a country should shoulder it, are all reasonable questions to consider.

FWIW – I have spent hundreds of hours volunteering my time in school and community programs that assist students from disadvantaged backgrounds. I have no question about the value of education, but according to your point of view we should just pay to educate the whole world because we would all be better off. Nice, but unreasonable.

Sorry flu.

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[quote=zk][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=all]
Either way, a finger to the ruling class is likely preferred to chopped heads, by plebs and patricians alike.[/quote]

The conservatives are losing control of their bases.
The business elites are now losing money because they used and enabled the pitchfork peasants.[/quote]

If you intentionally make people angry and afraid, you shouldn’t expect yourself to be able to predict the outcome of their anger and fear. Especially over a long period of time. Conservatives in this country have been stoking anger and fear for decades, and they got drumpf out of the deal. I’m not sure what’s been going on in the UK, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it were basically the same thing over there (with brexit the result instead of drumpf).[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree that conservatives employ scare tactics, but so has every political party since the beginning of time. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2010/08/26/2010-election-focusing-on-scare-tactics-from-both-parties

And although I hate Trump, whatever the liberals have done has resulted in Hillary as their candidate – which I don’t think is much to be proud of.

I spent a summer at the University of Warwick in England back in the late 80s. It’s a relatively new university with a very good reputation and has an emphasis on science. While I was there I was shocked at the very open expressions of prejudice delivered without a hint of embarrassment against people from India and Pakistan. As one girl said to me “They (meaning the English who were of Northern European heritage) don’t socialize with us.” And when I looked around I saw she was right. It was ironic because when I told people I was from Detroit they immediately started talking about the race problems. But I never saw the openly derogatory attitudes in Detroit that I did at Warwick.

That was 25 years ago in the Midlands (an area that delivered a strong vote to leave). You can’t blame Trump for that one – sorry. People severely underestimate the nationalism present in European countries.

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[quote=FlyerInHi]London is not England. They elected a Muslim mayor. London is like NYC.
Brexit is like theTrump phenomenon we have here. Ugly nativist anti-immigrant sentiment.[/quote]
Brexit aside – questioning the practical reality and costs associated with immigration does not make one, by definition, an ugly nativist anti immigration type. Almost 7% of kids K-12 in US schools have at least one parent who is undocumented. That is a significant issue and I am so tired of everyone acting like there’s a money tree somewhere that can pay for all of it. Everyone wants to be nice but there is not an endless supply of $.

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[quote=Hatfield] It was a pretty shitty job, but then I think everyone should have a shitty job at some point in their life. And a shitty boss too, so that they know what not to do when they become a boss themselves.

[/quote]

I completely agree about the importance of learning to deal with a tough boss/job. Most kids in high school have only dealt with people who have (or should have) the kids best interests at heart (teachers, coaches, etc.). Kids’ first jobs are a great way to learn that not everything is about them and what they want. So I told my son he should get a job this summer and, somewhat to my surprise, he was hired at a surf/skateboard clothing shop. He came home from his first day of work and said that most of the customers were girls trying on swimsuits. This isn’t quite the crappy job I had envisioned.

[njtosd]

Was this in a mass mailing? Insurance companies raise my blood pressure …..They certainly don’t ensure that “nothing unpleasant can happen.”

Geometry is not a method of calculation, it is a method of measuring. Of course, insurance companies know how to measure things. And personally, I don’t want to go on like wax flowers – I want to go on like South Park. Sometimes better, sometimes worse, but generally fun.

PS Had not realized he’s really a poet ……. Holy crap. I wouldn’t want to be a poet that wrote things that could be confused with junk mail. Clearly I was not a Lit/English major ……

[njtosd]

[quote=flu]Rest in Peace Christina Grimmie. How sad your talented life…

…. tragically ended, and so quickly it was forgotten by many becauase media and our politicians decided politicize a heinous act that happened the next day also in Orlando, simply because that mad man, also American born, was Muslim..

Funny how few are talking about gun control and mental health.[/quote]

Especially when 2/3 of gun related deaths in the US are suicides. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/upshot/gun-deaths-are-mostly-suicides.html

And, 70% of the suicides are white males:
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

Therefore, close to 50% of US gun deaths are suicides committed by white men.

Interestingly, the suicide rate in the US is fairly average, which means the availability of guns, in large part, simply changes the means of suicide.

In any event – gun deaths are CLEARLY a mental health issue. The guy who wrote FREAKONOMICS said he had a series of five factors that could be used to pretty accurately predict who was a terrorist. My guess is that something similar could be done to identify dangerously unhinged types. Or, offer an enormous reward to those who thwart mass shootings. I’ll bet the Orlando shooter’s wife would have tipped off the authorities for $5 million.

[njtosd]

This, on the other hand, is run of the mill behavior than can (and hopefully will) be deterred: http://www.cbs8.com/story/32243400/military-investigates-2-marines-for-social-media-post

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