[KSMountain]

Yeah I was just starting to answer, meadanale, I’ll go ahead anyway…

The term “bounced check” is not new, and it has always had a negative connotation. There is a reason for that.

I was probably aware of the term and the implications even as a 9 year old in the 60’s. It wasn’t that hard of a thing to figure out.

As I recall, the fee has *always* been something like $10 per check, so counting inflation, $20 in 2010 ain’t bad.

Brian, how long do you think it would take folks to figure out not to do that again?

Further, your $20 on $2 purchase example is an almost worst-case scenario. Say it’s on a $70 tank of gas, or even a nice meal somewhere. There is a cost to loan that money, extra paperwork, extra network transactions, sarbannes-oxley likely, extra software, risk of never recouping the money, etc.

[KSMountain]

Yeah I was just starting to answer, meadanale, I’ll go ahead anyway…

The term “bounced check” is not new, and it has always had a negative connotation. There is a reason for that.

I was probably aware of the term and the implications even as a 9 year old in the 60’s. It wasn’t that hard of a thing to figure out.

As I recall, the fee has *always* been something like $10 per check, so counting inflation, $20 in 2010 ain’t bad.

Brian, how long do you think it would take folks to figure out not to do that again?

Further, your $20 on $2 purchase example is an almost worst-case scenario. Say it’s on a $70 tank of gas, or even a nice meal somewhere. There is a cost to loan that money, extra paperwork, extra network transactions, sarbannes-oxley likely, extra software, risk of never recouping the money, etc.

[KSMountain]

Taking it further, do policies like those you advocate actually move us *toward* a WALL-E or Idiocracy future?

If so, wouldn’t your proposed policies actually hurt far more than help, in the long run?

This seems to cut to the core of our difference in viewpoints.

[KSMountain]

Taking it further, do policies like those you advocate actually move us *toward* a WALL-E or Idiocracy future?

If so, wouldn’t your proposed policies actually hurt far more than help, in the long run?

This seems to cut to the core of our difference in viewpoints.

[KSMountain]

Taking it further, do policies like those you advocate actually move us *toward* a WALL-E or Idiocracy future?

If so, wouldn’t your proposed policies actually hurt far more than help, in the long run?

This seems to cut to the core of our difference in viewpoints.

[KSMountain]

Taking it further, do policies like those you advocate actually move us *toward* a WALL-E or Idiocracy future?

If so, wouldn’t your proposed policies actually hurt far more than help, in the long run?

This seems to cut to the core of our difference in viewpoints.

[KSMountain]

Taking it further, do policies like those you advocate actually move us *toward* a WALL-E or Idiocracy future?

If so, wouldn’t your proposed policies actually hurt far more than help, in the long run?

This seems to cut to the core of our difference in viewpoints.

[KSMountain]

[quote=briansd1]
Nobody is disputing that a large percent of the population has financial management problems. But isn’t it our society’s job to help them?
[/quote]
Wow. You have a lot of jobs for our society.

[quote=briansd1]
If someone has only $1 in the bank, and overdraws the account by mistake at McDonald’s, how is it to our society’s benefit to allow the bank to charge them $20 overdraft fee? Simply decline the transaction and be done with it.
[/quote]
I think the balance is not always checked, perhaps for speed. I can easily imagine it is more expensive to process an overdraft after the fact. I suppose we could mandate that all the banking and POS software in the world be changed to check the balance before hand. Even then, could you have a race condition where another check cleared between the balance check and the new debit? You could still have overdrafts.

[quote=briansd1]
To me, free basic banking is the same as free over-the-air broadcast
[/quote]
The same? Adding extra listeners/viewers doesn’t add incremental costs. No customer service, etc. It’s not even CLOSE to “the same”.

[quote=briansd1]
and universal lifeline telephone.
[/quote]
That isn’t free is it?

[quote=briansd1]
It wouldn’t be necessary if employers were required to pay in cash if the employees so chose.

When check payments are obligatory, banks get an automatic stream of customers which they prey upon.[/quote]
Well, you have a point there. But, jeez is it THAT hard? We had banks even in the wild west frontier days, and people seemed to figure it out somehow. Have we gotten stupider, and should we pander to that? Life is pretty cushy compared to how it was 200 years ago, do we really have to act as if everyone is completely helpless? Like we’re those chubby folks in WALL-E? Don’t citizens have any obligation to the society to get their act together?

[KSMountain]

[quote=briansd1]
Nobody is disputing that a large percent of the population has financial management problems. But isn’t it our society’s job to help them?
[/quote]
Wow. You have a lot of jobs for our society.

[quote=briansd1]
If someone has only $1 in the bank, and overdraws the account by mistake at McDonald’s, how is it to our society’s benefit to allow the bank to charge them $20 overdraft fee? Simply decline the transaction and be done with it.
[/quote]
I think the balance is not always checked, perhaps for speed. I can easily imagine it is more expensive to process an overdraft after the fact. I suppose we could mandate that all the banking and POS software in the world be changed to check the balance before hand. Even then, could you have a race condition where another check cleared between the balance check and the new debit? You could still have overdrafts.

[quote=briansd1]
To me, free basic banking is the same as free over-the-air broadcast
[/quote]
The same? Adding extra listeners/viewers doesn’t add incremental costs. No customer service, etc. It’s not even CLOSE to “the same”.

[quote=briansd1]
and universal lifeline telephone.
[/quote]
That isn’t free is it?

[quote=briansd1]
It wouldn’t be necessary if employers were required to pay in cash if the employees so chose.

When check payments are obligatory, banks get an automatic stream of customers which they prey upon.[/quote]
Well, you have a point there. But, jeez is it THAT hard? We had banks even in the wild west frontier days, and people seemed to figure it out somehow. Have we gotten stupider, and should we pander to that? Life is pretty cushy compared to how it was 200 years ago, do we really have to act as if everyone is completely helpless? Like we’re those chubby folks in WALL-E? Don’t citizens have any obligation to the society to get their act together?

[KSMountain]

[quote=briansd1]
Nobody is disputing that a large percent of the population has financial management problems. But isn’t it our society’s job to help them?
[/quote]
Wow. You have a lot of jobs for our society.

[quote=briansd1]
If someone has only $1 in the bank, and overdraws the account by mistake at McDonald’s, how is it to our society’s benefit to allow the bank to charge them $20 overdraft fee? Simply decline the transaction and be done with it.
[/quote]
I think the balance is not always checked, perhaps for speed. I can easily imagine it is more expensive to process an overdraft after the fact. I suppose we could mandate that all the banking and POS software in the world be changed to check the balance before hand. Even then, could you have a race condition where another check cleared between the balance check and the new debit? You could still have overdrafts.

[quote=briansd1]
To me, free basic banking is the same as free over-the-air broadcast
[/quote]
The same? Adding extra listeners/viewers doesn’t add incremental costs. No customer service, etc. It’s not even CLOSE to “the same”.

[quote=briansd1]
and universal lifeline telephone.
[/quote]
That isn’t free is it?

[quote=briansd1]
It wouldn’t be necessary if employers were required to pay in cash if the employees so chose.

When check payments are obligatory, banks get an automatic stream of customers which they prey upon.[/quote]
Well, you have a point there. But, jeez is it THAT hard? We had banks even in the wild west frontier days, and people seemed to figure it out somehow. Have we gotten stupider, and should we pander to that? Life is pretty cushy compared to how it was 200 years ago, do we really have to act as if everyone is completely helpless? Like we’re those chubby folks in WALL-E? Don’t citizens have any obligation to the society to get their act together?

[KSMountain]

[quote=briansd1]
Nobody is disputing that a large percent of the population has financial management problems. But isn’t it our society’s job to help them?
[/quote]
Wow. You have a lot of jobs for our society.

[quote=briansd1]
If someone has only $1 in the bank, and overdraws the account by mistake at McDonald’s, how is it to our society’s benefit to allow the bank to charge them $20 overdraft fee? Simply decline the transaction and be done with it.
[/quote]
I think the balance is not always checked, perhaps for speed. I can easily imagine it is more expensive to process an overdraft after the fact. I suppose we could mandate that all the banking and POS software in the world be changed to check the balance before hand. Even then, could you have a race condition where another check cleared between the balance check and the new debit? You could still have overdrafts.

[quote=briansd1]
To me, free basic banking is the same as free over-the-air broadcast
[/quote]
The same? Adding extra listeners/viewers doesn’t add incremental costs. No customer service, etc. It’s not even CLOSE to “the same”.

[quote=briansd1]
and universal lifeline telephone.
[/quote]
That isn’t free is it?

[quote=briansd1]
It wouldn’t be necessary if employers were required to pay in cash if the employees so chose.

When check payments are obligatory, banks get an automatic stream of customers which they prey upon.[/quote]
Well, you have a point there. But, jeez is it THAT hard? We had banks even in the wild west frontier days, and people seemed to figure it out somehow. Have we gotten stupider, and should we pander to that? Life is pretty cushy compared to how it was 200 years ago, do we really have to act as if everyone is completely helpless? Like we’re those chubby folks in WALL-E? Don’t citizens have any obligation to the society to get their act together?

[KSMountain]

[quote=briansd1]
Nobody is disputing that a large percent of the population has financial management problems. But isn’t it our society’s job to help them?
[/quote]
Wow. You have a lot of jobs for our society.

[quote=briansd1]
If someone has only $1 in the bank, and overdraws the account by mistake at McDonald’s, how is it to our society’s benefit to allow the bank to charge them $20 overdraft fee? Simply decline the transaction and be done with it.
[/quote]
I think the balance is not always checked, perhaps for speed. I can easily imagine it is more expensive to process an overdraft after the fact. I suppose we could mandate that all the banking and POS software in the world be changed to check the balance before hand. Even then, could you have a race condition where another check cleared between the balance check and the new debit? You could still have overdrafts.

[quote=briansd1]
To me, free basic banking is the same as free over-the-air broadcast
[/quote]
The same? Adding extra listeners/viewers doesn’t add incremental costs. No customer service, etc. It’s not even CLOSE to “the same”.

[quote=briansd1]
and universal lifeline telephone.
[/quote]
That isn’t free is it?

[quote=briansd1]
It wouldn’t be necessary if employers were required to pay in cash if the employees so chose.

When check payments are obligatory, banks get an automatic stream of customers which they prey upon.[/quote]
Well, you have a point there. But, jeez is it THAT hard? We had banks even in the wild west frontier days, and people seemed to figure it out somehow. Have we gotten stupider, and should we pander to that? Life is pretty cushy compared to how it was 200 years ago, do we really have to act as if everyone is completely helpless? Like we’re those chubby folks in WALL-E? Don’t citizens have any obligation to the society to get their act together?

[KSMountain]

Awesome link, flu!

[KSMountain]

Awesome link, flu!

[KSMountain]

Awesome link, flu!

[Author]

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