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kewp
Participant[quote=esmith]
We don’t have a single Ph.D. on our team. We had two Ph.D.s in the past. Both of them turned out to be incompetent at writing the actual code, one got into a conflict with management, the other was let go due to being relatively useless. I participated in many interviews of prospective applicants. The overall level of practical skills of Ph.D.s is quite appalling.
[/quote]Something I’ve complained about for years is what I call “degree inflation”.
More and more people are pushed into Masters/PhD programs that shouldn’t be and therefore dilute the pool of talent, so to speak. So the letters themselves simply mean less now than they used to.
There are also many people that stay in school simply because they don’t know how to do anything else. Hence the lack of practical skills, or even the ability or desire to learn them.
Myself, I always wanted to be a system/network/security analyst/engineer. I followed the path that felt right at the time and have been modestly rewarded for it; despite not having much of a formal education.
I’ll comment that in my particular area of expertise, computer security, many of the big name talent has no formal education at all. Some are even high school drop-outs.
Participant[quote=esmith]
We don’t have a single Ph.D. on our team. We had two Ph.D.s in the past. Both of them turned out to be incompetent at writing the actual code, one got into a conflict with management, the other was let go due to being relatively useless. I participated in many interviews of prospective applicants. The overall level of practical skills of Ph.D.s is quite appalling.
[/quote]Something I’ve complained about for years is what I call “degree inflation”.
More and more people are pushed into Masters/PhD programs that shouldn’t be and therefore dilute the pool of talent, so to speak. So the letters themselves simply mean less now than they used to.
There are also many people that stay in school simply because they don’t know how to do anything else. Hence the lack of practical skills, or even the ability or desire to learn them.
Myself, I always wanted to be a system/network/security analyst/engineer. I followed the path that felt right at the time and have been modestly rewarded for it; despite not having much of a formal education.
I’ll comment that in my particular area of expertise, computer security, many of the big name talent has no formal education at all. Some are even high school drop-outs.
Participant[quote=esmith]
We don’t have a single Ph.D. on our team. We had two Ph.D.s in the past. Both of them turned out to be incompetent at writing the actual code, one got into a conflict with management, the other was let go due to being relatively useless. I participated in many interviews of prospective applicants. The overall level of practical skills of Ph.D.s is quite appalling.
[/quote]Something I’ve complained about for years is what I call “degree inflation”.
More and more people are pushed into Masters/PhD programs that shouldn’t be and therefore dilute the pool of talent, so to speak. So the letters themselves simply mean less now than they used to.
There are also many people that stay in school simply because they don’t know how to do anything else. Hence the lack of practical skills, or even the ability or desire to learn them.
Myself, I always wanted to be a system/network/security analyst/engineer. I followed the path that felt right at the time and have been modestly rewarded for it; despite not having much of a formal education.
I’ll comment that in my particular area of expertise, computer security, many of the big name talent has no formal education at all. Some are even high school drop-outs.
Participant[quote=esmith]
We don’t have a single Ph.D. on our team. We had two Ph.D.s in the past. Both of them turned out to be incompetent at writing the actual code, one got into a conflict with management, the other was let go due to being relatively useless. I participated in many interviews of prospective applicants. The overall level of practical skills of Ph.D.s is quite appalling.
[/quote]Something I’ve complained about for years is what I call “degree inflation”.
More and more people are pushed into Masters/PhD programs that shouldn’t be and therefore dilute the pool of talent, so to speak. So the letters themselves simply mean less now than they used to.
There are also many people that stay in school simply because they don’t know how to do anything else. Hence the lack of practical skills, or even the ability or desire to learn them.
Myself, I always wanted to be a system/network/security analyst/engineer. I followed the path that felt right at the time and have been modestly rewarded for it; despite not having much of a formal education.
I’ll comment that in my particular area of expertise, computer security, many of the big name talent has no formal education at all. Some are even high school drop-outs.
Participant[quote=flu] Very few are working on the actual wireless protocol, etc. How many of them are really using their communication theory, digital signal processing background,etc.
[/quote]I used to work at Bell Labs in N.J., in the same building where many of the wireless protocols were in fact designed. All of the PI’s had a Masters at least. Most had Ph.D’s.
And I suspect the teams providing the specs to the implementation guys are similar.
Anyways, it takes all kinds to make the world work. I appreciate everyone with a good work ethic, whether they are diplomats or ditch-diggers.
I do feel bad at times that I slacked off in school and have ended up doing better than many people that spent 8-10 years in higher ed and ran up 100k of student loans. But such is life; I assume.
Participant[quote=flu] Very few are working on the actual wireless protocol, etc. How many of them are really using their communication theory, digital signal processing background,etc.
[/quote]I used to work at Bell Labs in N.J., in the same building where many of the wireless protocols were in fact designed. All of the PI’s had a Masters at least. Most had Ph.D’s.
And I suspect the teams providing the specs to the implementation guys are similar.
Anyways, it takes all kinds to make the world work. I appreciate everyone with a good work ethic, whether they are diplomats or ditch-diggers.
I do feel bad at times that I slacked off in school and have ended up doing better than many people that spent 8-10 years in higher ed and ran up 100k of student loans. But such is life; I assume.
Participant[quote=flu] Very few are working on the actual wireless protocol, etc. How many of them are really using their communication theory, digital signal processing background,etc.
[/quote]I used to work at Bell Labs in N.J., in the same building where many of the wireless protocols were in fact designed. All of the PI’s had a Masters at least. Most had Ph.D’s.
And I suspect the teams providing the specs to the implementation guys are similar.
Anyways, it takes all kinds to make the world work. I appreciate everyone with a good work ethic, whether they are diplomats or ditch-diggers.
I do feel bad at times that I slacked off in school and have ended up doing better than many people that spent 8-10 years in higher ed and ran up 100k of student loans. But such is life; I assume.
Participant[quote=flu] Very few are working on the actual wireless protocol, etc. How many of them are really using their communication theory, digital signal processing background,etc.
[/quote]I used to work at Bell Labs in N.J., in the same building where many of the wireless protocols were in fact designed. All of the PI’s had a Masters at least. Most had Ph.D’s.
And I suspect the teams providing the specs to the implementation guys are similar.
Anyways, it takes all kinds to make the world work. I appreciate everyone with a good work ethic, whether they are diplomats or ditch-diggers.
I do feel bad at times that I slacked off in school and have ended up doing better than many people that spent 8-10 years in higher ed and ran up 100k of student loans. But such is life; I assume.
Participant[quote=flu] Very few are working on the actual wireless protocol, etc. How many of them are really using their communication theory, digital signal processing background,etc.
[/quote]I used to work at Bell Labs in N.J., in the same building where many of the wireless protocols were in fact designed. All of the PI’s had a Masters at least. Most had Ph.D’s.
And I suspect the teams providing the specs to the implementation guys are similar.
Anyways, it takes all kinds to make the world work. I appreciate everyone with a good work ethic, whether they are diplomats or ditch-diggers.
I do feel bad at times that I slacked off in school and have ended up doing better than many people that spent 8-10 years in higher ed and ran up 100k of student loans. But such is life; I assume.
Participant[quote=flu]
Statistically, there are more people who have college degrees that have that experience than people who do not. BUT, i can say a PHD in MechE applying for a DBA position with no experience will be S.O.L. And a company that has a data center will not hire that person to man their infrastructure and commit suicide on their mission critical business operations, because running the business poorly affects the bottom line.
[/quote]Your are comparing apples and oranges. Comparing an IT engineer to a ‘real’ engineer is like saying a mechanic or custodian is the peer of a rocket scientist.
And remember, I’m an IT engineer.
Truth be told, I really doubt you can find a single practicing engineer in one of the ‘hard’ disciplines that doesn’t have a formal education. Most IT is like trade work and programming, especially for user applications, is as much a creative and artistic endeavor as it is an engineering discipline.
Real ‘engineering’ is like brain surgery. No amateurs allowed. Would you trust a dropout to design a bridge or a jet engine?
However; I’ll comment that mechanics and custodians have better survival characteristics than rocket scientists during severe economic recessions. Businesses and governments will be more interested in maintaining existing systems vs. developing new ones.
Participant[quote=flu]
Statistically, there are more people who have college degrees that have that experience than people who do not. BUT, i can say a PHD in MechE applying for a DBA position with no experience will be S.O.L. And a company that has a data center will not hire that person to man their infrastructure and commit suicide on their mission critical business operations, because running the business poorly affects the bottom line.
[/quote]Your are comparing apples and oranges. Comparing an IT engineer to a ‘real’ engineer is like saying a mechanic or custodian is the peer of a rocket scientist.
And remember, I’m an IT engineer.
Truth be told, I really doubt you can find a single practicing engineer in one of the ‘hard’ disciplines that doesn’t have a formal education. Most IT is like trade work and programming, especially for user applications, is as much a creative and artistic endeavor as it is an engineering discipline.
Real ‘engineering’ is like brain surgery. No amateurs allowed. Would you trust a dropout to design a bridge or a jet engine?
However; I’ll comment that mechanics and custodians have better survival characteristics than rocket scientists during severe economic recessions. Businesses and governments will be more interested in maintaining existing systems vs. developing new ones.
Participant[quote=flu]
Statistically, there are more people who have college degrees that have that experience than people who do not. BUT, i can say a PHD in MechE applying for a DBA position with no experience will be S.O.L. And a company that has a data center will not hire that person to man their infrastructure and commit suicide on their mission critical business operations, because running the business poorly affects the bottom line.
[/quote]Your are comparing apples and oranges. Comparing an IT engineer to a ‘real’ engineer is like saying a mechanic or custodian is the peer of a rocket scientist.
And remember, I’m an IT engineer.
Truth be told, I really doubt you can find a single practicing engineer in one of the ‘hard’ disciplines that doesn’t have a formal education. Most IT is like trade work and programming, especially for user applications, is as much a creative and artistic endeavor as it is an engineering discipline.
Real ‘engineering’ is like brain surgery. No amateurs allowed. Would you trust a dropout to design a bridge or a jet engine?
However; I’ll comment that mechanics and custodians have better survival characteristics than rocket scientists during severe economic recessions. Businesses and governments will be more interested in maintaining existing systems vs. developing new ones.
Participant[quote=flu]
Statistically, there are more people who have college degrees that have that experience than people who do not. BUT, i can say a PHD in MechE applying for a DBA position with no experience will be S.O.L. And a company that has a data center will not hire that person to man their infrastructure and commit suicide on their mission critical business operations, because running the business poorly affects the bottom line.
[/quote]Your are comparing apples and oranges. Comparing an IT engineer to a ‘real’ engineer is like saying a mechanic or custodian is the peer of a rocket scientist.
And remember, I’m an IT engineer.
Truth be told, I really doubt you can find a single practicing engineer in one of the ‘hard’ disciplines that doesn’t have a formal education. Most IT is like trade work and programming, especially for user applications, is as much a creative and artistic endeavor as it is an engineering discipline.
Real ‘engineering’ is like brain surgery. No amateurs allowed. Would you trust a dropout to design a bridge or a jet engine?
However; I’ll comment that mechanics and custodians have better survival characteristics than rocket scientists during severe economic recessions. Businesses and governments will be more interested in maintaining existing systems vs. developing new ones.
Participant[quote=flu]
Statistically, there are more people who have college degrees that have that experience than people who do not. BUT, i can say a PHD in MechE applying for a DBA position with no experience will be S.O.L. And a company that has a data center will not hire that person to man their infrastructure and commit suicide on their mission critical business operations, because running the business poorly affects the bottom line.
[/quote]Your are comparing apples and oranges. Comparing an IT engineer to a ‘real’ engineer is like saying a mechanic or custodian is the peer of a rocket scientist.
And remember, I’m an IT engineer.
Truth be told, I really doubt you can find a single practicing engineer in one of the ‘hard’ disciplines that doesn’t have a formal education. Most IT is like trade work and programming, especially for user applications, is as much a creative and artistic endeavor as it is an engineering discipline.
Real ‘engineering’ is like brain surgery. No amateurs allowed. Would you trust a dropout to design a bridge or a jet engine?
However; I’ll comment that mechanics and custodians have better survival characteristics than rocket scientists during severe economic recessions. Businesses and governments will be more interested in maintaining existing systems vs. developing new ones.
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