[jstoesz]

No one argues that the housing mortgage deduction is not simulative of housing prices…obviously it is. Is it stimulative for the economy in general? Seems to me, the answer is no. It incentivizes people to put their savings in non productive assets. If houses were cheaper and the market not artificially skewed towards housing, that money could be put to much better uses. The same thing goes for you alls argument on business investment deductions.

[jstoesz]

AN, great posts on the other effects on GDP. When I was reading previous posts, I kept thinking how over simplified the analyses were in attempting to show tax policy effect on GDP. Based on the data, it is quite obvious that there is nowhere near a 1 to 1 correlations (or causation). Even more so because the top tax rate has applied to so many different wealth levels over the years, and subject to so many different carve outs.

The whole increasing taxes reduces savings and increases companies desire to invest idea (mouthful I know), seems a bit short sighted and simplistic as well. No intelligent business will throw away 1 dollar to save 30 cents, obviously. If the investment purchase makes sense in terms of increasing a company’s profit or revenue, the company will make it anyways. I can see how a higher rate could encourage less savings, and increase more spending, tipping the scales on those investments that are borderline. But then wouldn’t that spending be artificially encouraged. Furthermore, saving for a rainy day or a big purchase might be a better decision for the company. By distorting the prices of things (investment purchases), you end up with misallocated resources and therefore creating waste. And not only that, but you have taken more money out of the companies hands (through your higher rates) to achieve this distorted market. Which is obviously not stimulative. Ignore for the purpose of this argument the dis-incentive side of higher taxes on additional work. It seems bad any way you look at it. Cash is no good sitting under a mattress (so to speak), companies will spend their profits or save for an uncertain future to be spent another day and perhaps bigger and better investments. How can government claim to know what is best for the millions of different companies out there with their minutia of different needs.

You may say that I am arguing from an efficient market hypothesis, but I ask you, “what is a better assumption?” Government clearly does not strike me as the paragon of efficiency or knowledge. And when people or businesses waste money, at least it is money they have earned, not money they have commandeered.

[jstoesz]

The 90% top rate was illusionary. No one save the most incompetent tax avoiders paid anything close. Federal Revenue went up under Reagan tax cuts, because he eliminated loopholes and micro managed tax breaks. Growth zoomed..he just spent like crazy on defense, although he did end the cold war. So it was probably not for nothing.

[jstoesz]

BG, I don’t buy into the golden age myth, although my music tastes have always been a bit old fashion.

Pop music has definitely gotten worse in recent years, either that or Reuters is plagiarizing the Onion.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE86P0R820120726?irpc=932

As far as taxes/regulations and incentives go, it is a continuum. On one hand you can have zero taxes and have maximum incentive to make additional money. On the other hand you can have 100% tax and no incentive to make additional money. Because we need government for certain things, taxes are obviously a necessity. So we have to balance our need for taxes with our tolerance of dis-incetivising additional work. What level of tax or hoop jumping will stifle an individual is completely specific to that person and the opportunity. But on the aggregate, higher taxes will result in less productive work being done. I think that balance is off, especially with the progressive rates, where by their very nature, they discourage additional production. But, maybe you disagree, that the balance we have struck is not too disparaging of additional work. Just don’t claim that additional taxes don’t discourage production.

[jstoesz]

Just don’t report that productive use of your time. Black market economy, I introduce flu!

[jstoesz]

[quote=squat250]www.verminsupreme.com

buy your merchandise here…

http://www.verminsuprememerch.com/

or just google him. he’s everywhere…and nowhere…[/quote]

Holy crap scaredy, you spend too much time one the Internet. It thought you made that up! I am speechless.

[jstoesz]

[quote=squat250]sometimes i think pizzas are too cheap and people are consuming too many of them. I think pizzas cost more as a percentage of income when i was a kid.

im not sure what vermin’s position is on pizza pricing but I bet it’s weird and probably ties in with his mandatory dental health program where federal agents can come into your house at any time, night or day, to inspect your teeth and gums.[/quote]
You know what has gotten cheap, music. Long gone are the evil 90’s when a cd cost 16 bucks at At Sam goody. Just reminiscing about that yesterday when I bought a spirit family revival album on iTunes.

[jstoesz]

Am I a freak of nature, one who as thrown more money away, because the cost of complying was too high? I know my wife agrees, but I whisper in her ear lies about politics while she sleeps.

[jstoesz]

[quote=squat250]sorry. i was less than clear. Vermin Supreme is a man running for President on a pony-based economy platform, coupled with a mandatory pony idnetification program. I think he’s the candidate for you. Write him in for 2012![/quote]
What’s his name, John Wayne? I am eager to throw my vote away.

The previous owner of the boat I lived on pasted a bumper sticker down below that said just that.

God save us, John Wayne!

[jstoesz]

[quote=flu][quote=AN][quote=blake]Md. General Assembly OKs income tax increases for $100k earners

Coming soon to CA …[/quote]
Watch out folks, it’s getting quite slippery out there.[/quote]

Well, in a lot of ways, it’s already here….
Told ya all things would end up passing the cost to yes even everyone…. I understand 11-14 cents is nothing. BUT, then again when all sorts of businesses start doing it, what do you think it does to someone’s $40k/year salary? Oh wait, I forget. they except someone else to pay for that too..

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120809/BUSINESS/308090078/1042/SCENE/John-Schnatter-Obamacare-pizza?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CEntertainment%7Cs

Papa John’s CEO John Schnatter getting national attention over ‘Obamacare’ and higher pizza prices[/quote]

This is why business tax is asinine. Obviously they just pass that cost on to the consumer. It is just a back door way of taxing everyone else. Maybe with that in mind we should stop caring that half of America pays no federal income tax. They are just to stupid to realize they are paying it in way politicians have found to hide it from them.

Higher gas taxes for oil companies, oh wait…

[jstoesz]

[quote=squat250]jstoesz, things willd efinitely change for you once vermin supreme is in office and has his mandatory pony for every American scheme in place. you will definitely have the correct inventives as we move toward a pony based economy.

the insurance hassle ahs nothing to do with taxes, or the work.[/quote]

I have no idea what you are saying, but I love the sound of a pony based Economy! How many gold ingots can I get for a quarter horse? I know where to kidnap a few!

[jstoesz]

The iPad is killing me with double posts… What is that about.

[jstoesz]

Another thought, if you make 12k a year you are disincentivized to go for that extra 200 buckaroos because you might loses 200 bucks in government cheese. Or perhaps a hundred… But you don’t have to do jack crap to get you section 8 or medical.

[jstoesz]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jstoesz]Case and point… I live on 12 acres. The land is rented out to a horse boarder who pays my landlord rent for the use of the land. She is sick of the work, early feedings, broken fences, etc. I could take over the operation and net 300-400 bucks revenue before taxes…from my excel spreadsheet anyways. It would be easy to do that stuff, cause I live here, and I like that stuff. But after my tax burden that gets cut to 200 tops. After the head aches of getting feed delivered and cobblers ( is that what horse shoe men are called?). And having to set up high school kids when we are in the mountains for the weekend, and reporting the income, and insurance if someone breaks their neck, and all the other bullshit of running your own business, I am not even tempted. Not even close. The incentives are all wrong.[/quote]

Agree that it’s not enough money, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the taxes are too high; it more likely means that even $300 isn’t enough to get you to do it (it wouldn’t for me, either), especially if you’re the one who has to deal with insurance, cobblers (yes, I think that’s what they’re called), etc.

That being said, what if you only made $1,000 in your regular (full-time) job, and struggled daily to make ends meet. Would $200 be worth it to spend 1-2 hours/day on this work? For many people, it would be more than enough.

This is my point: if it’s not worth it to you, it will probably be worth it to someone else. With the surplus labor we have, the work will get done, the only question is by whom.[/quote]

Funny you should say that, because as of now, no one is stepping up to the plate. My landlord is in the process of shutting it down. I am going to have to do some serious weedwacking next spring with no horses to eat the weeds. A waste of productive resources if you ask me.

And this isn’t an isolated instance, it’s indemic. Change the incentives, and you change the behavior. We all play the game. It’s not binary, it’s a continuum of work and payoff.

[jstoesz]

Hell, maybe I am just lazy, or maybe I have a low tolerance for beurocratic hoop jumping ( probably both). But I doubt I am alone in my disincentivized work. I play the game with the pain tolerance I have accumulated, and I doubt I am out of the norm in either of those things.

[Author]

Posts