[jonnycsd]

bsrsharma wrote:

. . . may eventually lead to CA becoming a two tier society like Brazil: the gated communities with self contained municipal services and the left behind who have to some how survive without a functioning state

IMHO the entire USA is quietly but steadily moving towards a Brazilian socio-economic model. Like frogs in a pot of water on the stove top, by the time people realize what is happening it will be too late. The middle class will be gone, corruption rampant and clientelismo politics will be the accepted order. And yes, there will be gated communities and a massive underclass.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=4plexowner]
I hadn’t heard about increased health risks from living around the bay – I tell my kids and visitors to NEVER swim in Mission Bay – I have heard / read (?) that the water does not circulate well through the Bay so the water is relatively stagnant – combine a lack of circulation with the toxic remains of a landfill and you have the potential for a big, nasty, toxic body of water

when I first moved to San Diego 18 years ago I read a story in the Reader about unexplainable and incurable skin rashes and skin conditions that swimmers and surfers were developing – the article attributed the problem to our off-shore dumping of wastewater – made the point that every toilet in every hospital and medical facility in San Diego flushes into the ocean about 2 miles off-shore after the minimal amount of treatment required by law

anybody up for surfing this morning?

~

edit: another water quality issue is the sewage coming up from Tijuana – the beaches along Coronado are closed several (numerous?) times each year because of unhealthy conditions[/quote]

This post is so misinformed I’m not sure where to begin. 4plexowner, if, as you say, the bay has poor circulation of new ocean water then how the hell does the offshore discharge have any relevance? And how does water from Coronado Island, which is DOWNCURRENT on the other side of Point Loma even figure into the calculus (or lack thereof)?

The fact is that if has been two or three days since the last rain (aka, ALL SUMMER), Mission Bay provides some of the cleanest water for swimming in San Diego. The City’s $130MM storm water diversion system keeps surface runoff out of the bay and there is tremendous tidal flushing. The average depth of the bay is about 15 feet, and the tide moves up and down 3 to 6 feet meaning that about a third of the water is replaced in each tide cycle, or TWICE per day.

You can read about the academic study here:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20041016-9999-2m16swim.html

And you can read the conclusions of the environmentalist group “Heal the Bay” here (the mission bay bit is about 2/3 of the way down):
http://sandiego.about.com/od/outdoorrecreatio1/a/beaches2004.htm

As far as I am concerned those two links provide MUCH more reliable information than the quoted post.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=4plexowner]
I hadn’t heard about increased health risks from living around the bay – I tell my kids and visitors to NEVER swim in Mission Bay – I have heard / read (?) that the water does not circulate well through the Bay so the water is relatively stagnant – combine a lack of circulation with the toxic remains of a landfill and you have the potential for a big, nasty, toxic body of water

when I first moved to San Diego 18 years ago I read a story in the Reader about unexplainable and incurable skin rashes and skin conditions that swimmers and surfers were developing – the article attributed the problem to our off-shore dumping of wastewater – made the point that every toilet in every hospital and medical facility in San Diego flushes into the ocean about 2 miles off-shore after the minimal amount of treatment required by law

anybody up for surfing this morning?

~

edit: another water quality issue is the sewage coming up from Tijuana – the beaches along Coronado are closed several (numerous?) times each year because of unhealthy conditions[/quote]

This post is so misinformed I’m not sure where to begin. 4plexowner, if, as you say, the bay has poor circulation of new ocean water then how the hell does the offshore discharge have any relevance? And how does water from Coronado Island, which is DOWNCURRENT on the other side of Point Loma even figure into the calculus (or lack thereof)?

The fact is that if has been two or three days since the last rain (aka, ALL SUMMER), Mission Bay provides some of the cleanest water for swimming in San Diego. The City’s $130MM storm water diversion system keeps surface runoff out of the bay and there is tremendous tidal flushing. The average depth of the bay is about 15 feet, and the tide moves up and down 3 to 6 feet meaning that about a third of the water is replaced in each tide cycle, or TWICE per day.

You can read about the academic study here:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20041016-9999-2m16swim.html

And you can read the conclusions of the environmentalist group “Heal the Bay” here (the mission bay bit is about 2/3 of the way down):
http://sandiego.about.com/od/outdoorrecreatio1/a/beaches2004.htm

As far as I am concerned those two links provide MUCH more reliable information than the quoted post.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=4plexowner]
I hadn’t heard about increased health risks from living around the bay – I tell my kids and visitors to NEVER swim in Mission Bay – I have heard / read (?) that the water does not circulate well through the Bay so the water is relatively stagnant – combine a lack of circulation with the toxic remains of a landfill and you have the potential for a big, nasty, toxic body of water

when I first moved to San Diego 18 years ago I read a story in the Reader about unexplainable and incurable skin rashes and skin conditions that swimmers and surfers were developing – the article attributed the problem to our off-shore dumping of wastewater – made the point that every toilet in every hospital and medical facility in San Diego flushes into the ocean about 2 miles off-shore after the minimal amount of treatment required by law

anybody up for surfing this morning?

~

edit: another water quality issue is the sewage coming up from Tijuana – the beaches along Coronado are closed several (numerous?) times each year because of unhealthy conditions[/quote]

This post is so misinformed I’m not sure where to begin. 4plexowner, if, as you say, the bay has poor circulation of new ocean water then how the hell does the offshore discharge have any relevance? And how does water from Coronado Island, which is DOWNCURRENT on the other side of Point Loma even figure into the calculus (or lack thereof)?

The fact is that if has been two or three days since the last rain (aka, ALL SUMMER), Mission Bay provides some of the cleanest water for swimming in San Diego. The City’s $130MM storm water diversion system keeps surface runoff out of the bay and there is tremendous tidal flushing. The average depth of the bay is about 15 feet, and the tide moves up and down 3 to 6 feet meaning that about a third of the water is replaced in each tide cycle, or TWICE per day.

You can read about the academic study here:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20041016-9999-2m16swim.html

And you can read the conclusions of the environmentalist group “Heal the Bay” here (the mission bay bit is about 2/3 of the way down):
http://sandiego.about.com/od/outdoorrecreatio1/a/beaches2004.htm

As far as I am concerned those two links provide MUCH more reliable information than the quoted post.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=4plexowner]
I hadn’t heard about increased health risks from living around the bay – I tell my kids and visitors to NEVER swim in Mission Bay – I have heard / read (?) that the water does not circulate well through the Bay so the water is relatively stagnant – combine a lack of circulation with the toxic remains of a landfill and you have the potential for a big, nasty, toxic body of water

when I first moved to San Diego 18 years ago I read a story in the Reader about unexplainable and incurable skin rashes and skin conditions that swimmers and surfers were developing – the article attributed the problem to our off-shore dumping of wastewater – made the point that every toilet in every hospital and medical facility in San Diego flushes into the ocean about 2 miles off-shore after the minimal amount of treatment required by law

anybody up for surfing this morning?

~

edit: another water quality issue is the sewage coming up from Tijuana – the beaches along Coronado are closed several (numerous?) times each year because of unhealthy conditions[/quote]

This post is so misinformed I’m not sure where to begin. 4plexowner, if, as you say, the bay has poor circulation of new ocean water then how the hell does the offshore discharge have any relevance? And how does water from Coronado Island, which is DOWNCURRENT on the other side of Point Loma even figure into the calculus (or lack thereof)?

The fact is that if has been two or three days since the last rain (aka, ALL SUMMER), Mission Bay provides some of the cleanest water for swimming in San Diego. The City’s $130MM storm water diversion system keeps surface runoff out of the bay and there is tremendous tidal flushing. The average depth of the bay is about 15 feet, and the tide moves up and down 3 to 6 feet meaning that about a third of the water is replaced in each tide cycle, or TWICE per day.

You can read about the academic study here:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20041016-9999-2m16swim.html

And you can read the conclusions of the environmentalist group “Heal the Bay” here (the mission bay bit is about 2/3 of the way down):
http://sandiego.about.com/od/outdoorrecreatio1/a/beaches2004.htm

As far as I am concerned those two links provide MUCH more reliable information than the quoted post.

[jonnycsd]

[quote=4plexowner]
I hadn’t heard about increased health risks from living around the bay – I tell my kids and visitors to NEVER swim in Mission Bay – I have heard / read (?) that the water does not circulate well through the Bay so the water is relatively stagnant – combine a lack of circulation with the toxic remains of a landfill and you have the potential for a big, nasty, toxic body of water

when I first moved to San Diego 18 years ago I read a story in the Reader about unexplainable and incurable skin rashes and skin conditions that swimmers and surfers were developing – the article attributed the problem to our off-shore dumping of wastewater – made the point that every toilet in every hospital and medical facility in San Diego flushes into the ocean about 2 miles off-shore after the minimal amount of treatment required by law

anybody up for surfing this morning?

~

edit: another water quality issue is the sewage coming up from Tijuana – the beaches along Coronado are closed several (numerous?) times each year because of unhealthy conditions[/quote]

This post is so misinformed I’m not sure where to begin. 4plexowner, if, as you say, the bay has poor circulation of new ocean water then how the hell does the offshore discharge have any relevance? And how does water from Coronado Island, which is DOWNCURRENT on the other side of Point Loma even figure into the calculus (or lack thereof)?

The fact is that if has been two or three days since the last rain (aka, ALL SUMMER), Mission Bay provides some of the cleanest water for swimming in San Diego. The City’s $130MM storm water diversion system keeps surface runoff out of the bay and there is tremendous tidal flushing. The average depth of the bay is about 15 feet, and the tide moves up and down 3 to 6 feet meaning that about a third of the water is replaced in each tide cycle, or TWICE per day.

You can read about the academic study here:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20041016-9999-2m16swim.html

And you can read the conclusions of the environmentalist group “Heal the Bay” here (the mission bay bit is about 2/3 of the way down):
http://sandiego.about.com/od/outdoorrecreatio1/a/beaches2004.htm

As far as I am concerned those two links provide MUCH more reliable information than the quoted post.

[jonnycsd]

Posted salary schedules are grossly misleading they are the starting point ONLY. “Add on Pays” typically increase that by 20% and in some cases double it. In San Diego you get this if you speak spanish, know CPR, complete MS Office training or certain firearms training, take certain types of duty and on and on.

So comparing the posted salary, which accrues overtime, with the private sector compensation that get no overtime, no add on pays, and has a defined contribution retirement rather than defined benefits is just nonsense.

There are some civil servants who work really hard, and many more who hardly work at all. Due to union and other work rules, it is almost impossible to fire the lazy ones.

Local Govt budgets get a huge portion of thier funding from Sacramento – which is what needs to be cut. The system is broken – I never thought about state and local BKs as a way to fix it, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

[jonnycsd]

Posted salary schedules are grossly misleading they are the starting point ONLY. “Add on Pays” typically increase that by 20% and in some cases double it. In San Diego you get this if you speak spanish, know CPR, complete MS Office training or certain firearms training, take certain types of duty and on and on.

So comparing the posted salary, which accrues overtime, with the private sector compensation that get no overtime, no add on pays, and has a defined contribution retirement rather than defined benefits is just nonsense.

There are some civil servants who work really hard, and many more who hardly work at all. Due to union and other work rules, it is almost impossible to fire the lazy ones.

Local Govt budgets get a huge portion of thier funding from Sacramento – which is what needs to be cut. The system is broken – I never thought about state and local BKs as a way to fix it, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

[jonnycsd]

Posted salary schedules are grossly misleading they are the starting point ONLY. “Add on Pays” typically increase that by 20% and in some cases double it. In San Diego you get this if you speak spanish, know CPR, complete MS Office training or certain firearms training, take certain types of duty and on and on.

So comparing the posted salary, which accrues overtime, with the private sector compensation that get no overtime, no add on pays, and has a defined contribution retirement rather than defined benefits is just nonsense.

There are some civil servants who work really hard, and many more who hardly work at all. Due to union and other work rules, it is almost impossible to fire the lazy ones.

Local Govt budgets get a huge portion of thier funding from Sacramento – which is what needs to be cut. The system is broken – I never thought about state and local BKs as a way to fix it, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

[jonnycsd]

Posted salary schedules are grossly misleading they are the starting point ONLY. “Add on Pays” typically increase that by 20% and in some cases double it. In San Diego you get this if you speak spanish, know CPR, complete MS Office training or certain firearms training, take certain types of duty and on and on.

So comparing the posted salary, which accrues overtime, with the private sector compensation that get no overtime, no add on pays, and has a defined contribution retirement rather than defined benefits is just nonsense.

There are some civil servants who work really hard, and many more who hardly work at all. Due to union and other work rules, it is almost impossible to fire the lazy ones.

Local Govt budgets get a huge portion of thier funding from Sacramento – which is what needs to be cut. The system is broken – I never thought about state and local BKs as a way to fix it, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

[jonnycsd]

Posted salary schedules are grossly misleading they are the starting point ONLY. “Add on Pays” typically increase that by 20% and in some cases double it. In San Diego you get this if you speak spanish, know CPR, complete MS Office training or certain firearms training, take certain types of duty and on and on.

So comparing the posted salary, which accrues overtime, with the private sector compensation that get no overtime, no add on pays, and has a defined contribution retirement rather than defined benefits is just nonsense.

There are some civil servants who work really hard, and many more who hardly work at all. Due to union and other work rules, it is almost impossible to fire the lazy ones.

Local Govt budgets get a huge portion of thier funding from Sacramento – which is what needs to be cut. The system is broken – I never thought about state and local BKs as a way to fix it, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

[jonnycsd]

California ranks among the top ten states with the highest tax burdens placed on its citizens and has been there for DECADES, even with Prop 13.

Here are the numbers to compare California taxes with other states.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/443.html

The state is raising plenty of money through taxes, what needs to be cut is spending.

(BTW, the CA numbers dont include MeloRoos, which should be included as they were created by the legislature as a way to get around Prop 13s restrictions – in most every other state the things MRs pay for are funded out of taxes.)

[jonnycsd]

California ranks among the top ten states with the highest tax burdens placed on its citizens and has been there for DECADES, even with Prop 13.

Here are the numbers to compare California taxes with other states.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/443.html

The state is raising plenty of money through taxes, what needs to be cut is spending.

(BTW, the CA numbers dont include MeloRoos, which should be included as they were created by the legislature as a way to get around Prop 13s restrictions – in most every other state the things MRs pay for are funded out of taxes.)

[jonnycsd]

California ranks among the top ten states with the highest tax burdens placed on its citizens and has been there for DECADES, even with Prop 13.

Here are the numbers to compare California taxes with other states.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/443.html

The state is raising plenty of money through taxes, what needs to be cut is spending.

(BTW, the CA numbers dont include MeloRoos, which should be included as they were created by the legislature as a way to get around Prop 13s restrictions – in most every other state the things MRs pay for are funded out of taxes.)

[jonnycsd]

California ranks among the top ten states with the highest tax burdens placed on its citizens and has been there for DECADES, even with Prop 13.

Here are the numbers to compare California taxes with other states.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/443.html

The state is raising plenty of money through taxes, what needs to be cut is spending.

(BTW, the CA numbers dont include MeloRoos, which should be included as they were created by the legislature as a way to get around Prop 13s restrictions – in most every other state the things MRs pay for are funded out of taxes.)

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