[GH]

I think what is being lost in this whole thread, is not if these are great people or great workers, or how dangerous their jobs are, or how horrible public school classrooms are etc, but a simpler and more fundamental question.

With the current economic conditions, CAN WE AFFORD THEM?

My wife worked in Riverside County some years back as a volunteer firefighter. She loved being a part of something important, even though she did not get paid. When we got to San Diego? No volunteers allowed!

I am actually not so interested in the on the ground police, teachers, firemen etc. , but rather the growing and much more expensive layer of administrative staff, which seems to be where most of the horror stories of overpaid government employees with massive pensions comes from.

On the subject of pensions, it is clear that we need to move away from the “for life” model of pensions and instead calculate each government workers contributions, matching contributions etc, weigh in the profits or LOSSES on the pension funds over time, and come to an actual balance owed each worker, regardless of if they live just a year or two, or if they live to be 100. Frankly, why should a worker who lives longer get MORE pension than one who is unlucky and dies shortly after retirement?

[GH]

[quote=jpinpb] Their money is “invested” in their pension.[/quote]

Last time I checked they had invested their money collectively and poorly. Why should I be held accountable for their poor investment strategies. Attempts to keep a higher rate of return through risky investments are NOT my problem. Public workers whose retirements were poorly invested should seek damages from those responsible for managing their portfolio, not the general public who is facing unprecedented problems as it stands.

Current retirement budgets are predicated on an 8% annual return on investment. A return which is NOT feasible given current economic conditions. Give me ONE good reason these morons should not take their medicine like the rest of us had to, except they can simply beat the money out of us and use force if necessary to force us to pay?

[GH]

[quote=jpinpb] Their money is “invested” in their pension.[/quote]

Last time I checked they had invested their money collectively and poorly. Why should I be held accountable for their poor investment strategies. Attempts to keep a higher rate of return through risky investments are NOT my problem. Public workers whose retirements were poorly invested should seek damages from those responsible for managing their portfolio, not the general public who is facing unprecedented problems as it stands.

Current retirement budgets are predicated on an 8% annual return on investment. A return which is NOT feasible given current economic conditions. Give me ONE good reason these morons should not take their medicine like the rest of us had to, except they can simply beat the money out of us and use force if necessary to force us to pay?

[GH]

[quote=jpinpb] Their money is “invested” in their pension.[/quote]

Last time I checked they had invested their money collectively and poorly. Why should I be held accountable for their poor investment strategies. Attempts to keep a higher rate of return through risky investments are NOT my problem. Public workers whose retirements were poorly invested should seek damages from those responsible for managing their portfolio, not the general public who is facing unprecedented problems as it stands.

Current retirement budgets are predicated on an 8% annual return on investment. A return which is NOT feasible given current economic conditions. Give me ONE good reason these morons should not take their medicine like the rest of us had to, except they can simply beat the money out of us and use force if necessary to force us to pay?

[GH]

[quote=jpinpb] Their money is “invested” in their pension.[/quote]

Last time I checked they had invested their money collectively and poorly. Why should I be held accountable for their poor investment strategies. Attempts to keep a higher rate of return through risky investments are NOT my problem. Public workers whose retirements were poorly invested should seek damages from those responsible for managing their portfolio, not the general public who is facing unprecedented problems as it stands.

Current retirement budgets are predicated on an 8% annual return on investment. A return which is NOT feasible given current economic conditions. Give me ONE good reason these morons should not take their medicine like the rest of us had to, except they can simply beat the money out of us and use force if necessary to force us to pay?

[GH]

[quote=jpinpb] Their money is “invested” in their pension.[/quote]

Last time I checked they had invested their money collectively and poorly. Why should I be held accountable for their poor investment strategies. Attempts to keep a higher rate of return through risky investments are NOT my problem. Public workers whose retirements were poorly invested should seek damages from those responsible for managing their portfolio, not the general public who is facing unprecedented problems as it stands.

Current retirement budgets are predicated on an 8% annual return on investment. A return which is NOT feasible given current economic conditions. Give me ONE good reason these morons should not take their medicine like the rest of us had to, except they can simply beat the money out of us and use force if necessary to force us to pay?

[GH]

Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?

My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.

Don’t believe me?

I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.

The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.

[GH]

Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?

My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.

Don’t believe me?

I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.

The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.

[GH]

Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?

My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.

Don’t believe me?

I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.

The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.

[GH]

Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?

My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.

Don’t believe me?

I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.

The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.

[GH]

Most jobs are VERY dangerous – Stress etc. The most dangerous jobs are fisherman, so these guys should be paid millions of dollars a year by the dangerous jobs deserve more logic, loggers, pilots, farmers and ranchers – pay the illegals hundreds of thousands before even thinking about firemen or police. roofers then iron and steel workers, refuse workers, material collectors, machinery installation workers, drivers and sales workers, truck drivers and construction workers. ALL of these jobs ARE more dangerous than police or firefighter jobs, yet I don’t see you promoting vast pay increases for them?

My understanding is that convenience store clerks have a higher mortality rate on the job than police or firemen.

Don’t believe me?

I would challenge ANY government moron to get a better paying job in the private sector, and don’t keep on with that “risking their lives” garbage, because they are not even in the top ten.

The majority of firefighters in the US are volunteer and do the job because they WANT to. It is time to get real about public salaries and pensions and bring them into line with the current economic reality. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM! We need to get rid of the whole lot and replace them with a system we CAN afford.

[GH]

Us Westerners are now required to compete with cheap offshore labor. There may or may not be asset inflation, but there will be no wage inflation. Perhaps a world in which we buy billion dollar houses on loan, then have our loans “modified” to fit our incomes will be the norm in the future?

[GH]

Us Westerners are now required to compete with cheap offshore labor. There may or may not be asset inflation, but there will be no wage inflation. Perhaps a world in which we buy billion dollar houses on loan, then have our loans “modified” to fit our incomes will be the norm in the future?

[GH]

Us Westerners are now required to compete with cheap offshore labor. There may or may not be asset inflation, but there will be no wage inflation. Perhaps a world in which we buy billion dollar houses on loan, then have our loans “modified” to fit our incomes will be the norm in the future?

[GH]

Us Westerners are now required to compete with cheap offshore labor. There may or may not be asset inflation, but there will be no wage inflation. Perhaps a world in which we buy billion dollar houses on loan, then have our loans “modified” to fit our incomes will be the norm in the future?

[Author]

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