[gandalf]

Allan, that’s the MONEY QUESTION. How do we approach negotiations? It matters. What’s the Iranian government’s biggest weakness? Supplies and resources like North Korea? I’d have to guess political destabilization. Unilateral talks with the US gives them the most cover, as an adversarial character would lend legitimacy. Not necessarily to our advantage to conduct things this way.

I always thought Reagan was just brilliant when he departed from the script on his visit to Russia, I can’t remember the details, walked out into the crowd in Moscow I think. The Cold War endgame always included hearts and minds. Gorby had to be smiling: “That son-of-a-bitch…” — in Russian of course. AFF, what was the backstory there? Any insights?

My suggestion with Iran, we haven’t even scratched the surface of alternatives. Some options haven’t presented themselves yet. Really, up to this point we’ve just backed ourselves into a corner, and in the process surrendered the terms of engagement to a worthy adversary.

[gandalf]

Allan, that’s the MONEY QUESTION. How do we approach negotiations? It matters. What’s the Iranian government’s biggest weakness? Supplies and resources like North Korea? I’d have to guess political destabilization. Unilateral talks with the US gives them the most cover, as an adversarial character would lend legitimacy. Not necessarily to our advantage to conduct things this way.

I always thought Reagan was just brilliant when he departed from the script on his visit to Russia, I can’t remember the details, walked out into the crowd in Moscow I think. The Cold War endgame always included hearts and minds. Gorby had to be smiling: “That son-of-a-bitch…” — in Russian of course. AFF, what was the backstory there? Any insights?

My suggestion with Iran, we haven’t even scratched the surface of alternatives. Some options haven’t presented themselves yet. Really, up to this point we’ve just backed ourselves into a corner, and in the process surrendered the terms of engagement to a worthy adversary.

[gandalf]

Allan, that’s the MONEY QUESTION. How do we approach negotiations? It matters. What’s the Iranian government’s biggest weakness? Supplies and resources like North Korea? I’d have to guess political destabilization. Unilateral talks with the US gives them the most cover, as an adversarial character would lend legitimacy. Not necessarily to our advantage to conduct things this way.

I always thought Reagan was just brilliant when he departed from the script on his visit to Russia, I can’t remember the details, walked out into the crowd in Moscow I think. The Cold War endgame always included hearts and minds. Gorby had to be smiling: “That son-of-a-bitch…” — in Russian of course. AFF, what was the backstory there? Any insights?

My suggestion with Iran, we haven’t even scratched the surface of alternatives. Some options haven’t presented themselves yet. Really, up to this point we’ve just backed ourselves into a corner, and in the process surrendered the terms of engagement to a worthy adversary.

[gandalf]

Allan, that’s the MONEY QUESTION. How do we approach negotiations? It matters. What’s the Iranian government’s biggest weakness? Supplies and resources like North Korea? I’d have to guess political destabilization. Unilateral talks with the US gives them the most cover, as an adversarial character would lend legitimacy. Not necessarily to our advantage to conduct things this way.

I always thought Reagan was just brilliant when he departed from the script on his visit to Russia, I can’t remember the details, walked out into the crowd in Moscow I think. The Cold War endgame always included hearts and minds. Gorby had to be smiling: “That son-of-a-bitch…” — in Russian of course. AFF, what was the backstory there? Any insights?

My suggestion with Iran, we haven’t even scratched the surface of alternatives. Some options haven’t presented themselves yet. Really, up to this point we’ve just backed ourselves into a corner, and in the process surrendered the terms of engagement to a worthy adversary.

[gandalf]

Allan, that’s the MONEY QUESTION. How do we approach negotiations? It matters. What’s the Iranian government’s biggest weakness? Supplies and resources like North Korea? I’d have to guess political destabilization. Unilateral talks with the US gives them the most cover, as an adversarial character would lend legitimacy. Not necessarily to our advantage to conduct things this way.

I always thought Reagan was just brilliant when he departed from the script on his visit to Russia, I can’t remember the details, walked out into the crowd in Moscow I think. The Cold War endgame always included hearts and minds. Gorby had to be smiling: “That son-of-a-bitch…” — in Russian of course. AFF, what was the backstory there? Any insights?

My suggestion with Iran, we haven’t even scratched the surface of alternatives. Some options haven’t presented themselves yet. Really, up to this point we’ve just backed ourselves into a corner, and in the process surrendered the terms of engagement to a worthy adversary.

[gandalf]

Yeah, this oil issue is just HUGE. It’s our Achilles Heel, and like Achilles, we assume ourselves to be invulnerable. Change the reliance on ME oil and we have so much more latitude in dealing with threats in the region. Why are we being so stupid?

surveyor: let’s be careful of our sources here. John Bolton is certified ‘out there’, and doesn’t speak for LA Times, the mainstream of the foreign policy community, or the center of America for that matter.
He doesn’t even speak for the Republican party, the old guard at least. They disowned him.

I too would be skeptical of success with diplomacy if that were the only channel we took but we won’t and it provides cover (with third-parties) for more direct punitive and combative operations and opens a channel for negotiations with Iran should we have success with the latter. Both carrot and stick. Back a horse into a corner and you’ll find out how hard it kicks.

Let’s think about this another way. What would you do if you had “no way out”? If the neighborhood bully backed you into a corner and told you to eat a bag of dogshit or get your ass kicked? Would you turn tail and suck up to anybody who says ‘scary’ things to you?

The British Empire backed the American Colonies into a corner with imperialism, unjust abuse of power and oppression and we kicked the shit out of them (using terrorism and unconventional warfare I might add). So, if you’re part of the hardline Iranian regime, what would you do? Iran is not going to go quietly into the night. WHO’S BEING NAIVE HERE?

My argument is we need all options on the table and negotiations are one of them. If you want to win, you have to engage, and you have to do it along multiple fronts. Negotiations do not preclude other options. They add to the pressure, which is what we want. Pressure. And FORCE if necessary.

FYI, you’ve falling into the same trap GWB fell into, which is surrendering the terms of engagement (and power) to your enemy. It betrays weakness. I suspect GWB got his ass kicked in every schoolyard scrap he got into, and if he didn’t, maybe he should have.

[gandalf]

Yeah, this oil issue is just HUGE. It’s our Achilles Heel, and like Achilles, we assume ourselves to be invulnerable. Change the reliance on ME oil and we have so much more latitude in dealing with threats in the region. Why are we being so stupid?

surveyor: let’s be careful of our sources here. John Bolton is certified ‘out there’, and doesn’t speak for LA Times, the mainstream of the foreign policy community, or the center of America for that matter.
He doesn’t even speak for the Republican party, the old guard at least. They disowned him.

I too would be skeptical of success with diplomacy if that were the only channel we took but we won’t and it provides cover (with third-parties) for more direct punitive and combative operations and opens a channel for negotiations with Iran should we have success with the latter. Both carrot and stick. Back a horse into a corner and you’ll find out how hard it kicks.

Let’s think about this another way. What would you do if you had “no way out”? If the neighborhood bully backed you into a corner and told you to eat a bag of dogshit or get your ass kicked? Would you turn tail and suck up to anybody who says ‘scary’ things to you?

The British Empire backed the American Colonies into a corner with imperialism, unjust abuse of power and oppression and we kicked the shit out of them (using terrorism and unconventional warfare I might add). So, if you’re part of the hardline Iranian regime, what would you do? Iran is not going to go quietly into the night. WHO’S BEING NAIVE HERE?

My argument is we need all options on the table and negotiations are one of them. If you want to win, you have to engage, and you have to do it along multiple fronts. Negotiations do not preclude other options. They add to the pressure, which is what we want. Pressure. And FORCE if necessary.

FYI, you’ve falling into the same trap GWB fell into, which is surrendering the terms of engagement (and power) to your enemy. It betrays weakness. I suspect GWB got his ass kicked in every schoolyard scrap he got into, and if he didn’t, maybe he should have.

[gandalf]

Yeah, this oil issue is just HUGE. It’s our Achilles Heel, and like Achilles, we assume ourselves to be invulnerable. Change the reliance on ME oil and we have so much more latitude in dealing with threats in the region. Why are we being so stupid?

surveyor: let’s be careful of our sources here. John Bolton is certified ‘out there’, and doesn’t speak for LA Times, the mainstream of the foreign policy community, or the center of America for that matter.
He doesn’t even speak for the Republican party, the old guard at least. They disowned him.

I too would be skeptical of success with diplomacy if that were the only channel we took but we won’t and it provides cover (with third-parties) for more direct punitive and combative operations and opens a channel for negotiations with Iran should we have success with the latter. Both carrot and stick. Back a horse into a corner and you’ll find out how hard it kicks.

Let’s think about this another way. What would you do if you had “no way out”? If the neighborhood bully backed you into a corner and told you to eat a bag of dogshit or get your ass kicked? Would you turn tail and suck up to anybody who says ‘scary’ things to you?

The British Empire backed the American Colonies into a corner with imperialism, unjust abuse of power and oppression and we kicked the shit out of them (using terrorism and unconventional warfare I might add). So, if you’re part of the hardline Iranian regime, what would you do? Iran is not going to go quietly into the night. WHO’S BEING NAIVE HERE?

My argument is we need all options on the table and negotiations are one of them. If you want to win, you have to engage, and you have to do it along multiple fronts. Negotiations do not preclude other options. They add to the pressure, which is what we want. Pressure. And FORCE if necessary.

FYI, you’ve falling into the same trap GWB fell into, which is surrendering the terms of engagement (and power) to your enemy. It betrays weakness. I suspect GWB got his ass kicked in every schoolyard scrap he got into, and if he didn’t, maybe he should have.

[gandalf]

Yeah, this oil issue is just HUGE. It’s our Achilles Heel, and like Achilles, we assume ourselves to be invulnerable. Change the reliance on ME oil and we have so much more latitude in dealing with threats in the region. Why are we being so stupid?

surveyor: let’s be careful of our sources here. John Bolton is certified ‘out there’, and doesn’t speak for LA Times, the mainstream of the foreign policy community, or the center of America for that matter.
He doesn’t even speak for the Republican party, the old guard at least. They disowned him.

I too would be skeptical of success with diplomacy if that were the only channel we took but we won’t and it provides cover (with third-parties) for more direct punitive and combative operations and opens a channel for negotiations with Iran should we have success with the latter. Both carrot and stick. Back a horse into a corner and you’ll find out how hard it kicks.

Let’s think about this another way. What would you do if you had “no way out”? If the neighborhood bully backed you into a corner and told you to eat a bag of dogshit or get your ass kicked? Would you turn tail and suck up to anybody who says ‘scary’ things to you?

The British Empire backed the American Colonies into a corner with imperialism, unjust abuse of power and oppression and we kicked the shit out of them (using terrorism and unconventional warfare I might add). So, if you’re part of the hardline Iranian regime, what would you do? Iran is not going to go quietly into the night. WHO’S BEING NAIVE HERE?

My argument is we need all options on the table and negotiations are one of them. If you want to win, you have to engage, and you have to do it along multiple fronts. Negotiations do not preclude other options. They add to the pressure, which is what we want. Pressure. And FORCE if necessary.

FYI, you’ve falling into the same trap GWB fell into, which is surrendering the terms of engagement (and power) to your enemy. It betrays weakness. I suspect GWB got his ass kicked in every schoolyard scrap he got into, and if he didn’t, maybe he should have.

[gandalf]

Yeah, this oil issue is just HUGE. It’s our Achilles Heel, and like Achilles, we assume ourselves to be invulnerable. Change the reliance on ME oil and we have so much more latitude in dealing with threats in the region. Why are we being so stupid?

surveyor: let’s be careful of our sources here. John Bolton is certified ‘out there’, and doesn’t speak for LA Times, the mainstream of the foreign policy community, or the center of America for that matter.
He doesn’t even speak for the Republican party, the old guard at least. They disowned him.

I too would be skeptical of success with diplomacy if that were the only channel we took but we won’t and it provides cover (with third-parties) for more direct punitive and combative operations and opens a channel for negotiations with Iran should we have success with the latter. Both carrot and stick. Back a horse into a corner and you’ll find out how hard it kicks.

Let’s think about this another way. What would you do if you had “no way out”? If the neighborhood bully backed you into a corner and told you to eat a bag of dogshit or get your ass kicked? Would you turn tail and suck up to anybody who says ‘scary’ things to you?

The British Empire backed the American Colonies into a corner with imperialism, unjust abuse of power and oppression and we kicked the shit out of them (using terrorism and unconventional warfare I might add). So, if you’re part of the hardline Iranian regime, what would you do? Iran is not going to go quietly into the night. WHO’S BEING NAIVE HERE?

My argument is we need all options on the table and negotiations are one of them. If you want to win, you have to engage, and you have to do it along multiple fronts. Negotiations do not preclude other options. They add to the pressure, which is what we want. Pressure. And FORCE if necessary.

FYI, you’ve falling into the same trap GWB fell into, which is surrendering the terms of engagement (and power) to your enemy. It betrays weakness. I suspect GWB got his ass kicked in every schoolyard scrap he got into, and if he didn’t, maybe he should have.

[gandalf]

Cool, Afx. Yeah, it’s been interesting. With ME / Iraq policy questions, I’m wondering if AFF has any thoughts? Military historian of sorts. Others as well? It would be great to learn about some angle on this whole Iraq project that makes it justified and worthwhile, some reason that hasn’t been mentioned up to this point. I’m not an expert and don’t know everything.

Right now though, I just don’t see it. Until I do, I’m of the mind that Iraq was an incredibly stupid military and foreign policy mistake, complicated by Abu Ghraib and other misadventures. I see more upside gain than downside risk to withdrawal. I think we should draw down troop levels immediately, leave a small force behind including intel, and refocus on AQ in A/P and SA, and Soviet nukes.

Here’s the opening, golden opportunity to convince me Iraq wasn’t retarded, and that keeping a large army stationed there is worthwhile for some reason I’m not thinking of… ?

[gandalf]

Cool, Afx. Yeah, it’s been interesting. With ME / Iraq policy questions, I’m wondering if AFF has any thoughts? Military historian of sorts. Others as well? It would be great to learn about some angle on this whole Iraq project that makes it justified and worthwhile, some reason that hasn’t been mentioned up to this point. I’m not an expert and don’t know everything.

Right now though, I just don’t see it. Until I do, I’m of the mind that Iraq was an incredibly stupid military and foreign policy mistake, complicated by Abu Ghraib and other misadventures. I see more upside gain than downside risk to withdrawal. I think we should draw down troop levels immediately, leave a small force behind including intel, and refocus on AQ in A/P and SA, and Soviet nukes.

Here’s the opening, golden opportunity to convince me Iraq wasn’t retarded, and that keeping a large army stationed there is worthwhile for some reason I’m not thinking of… ?

[gandalf]

Cool, Afx. Yeah, it’s been interesting. With ME / Iraq policy questions, I’m wondering if AFF has any thoughts? Military historian of sorts. Others as well? It would be great to learn about some angle on this whole Iraq project that makes it justified and worthwhile, some reason that hasn’t been mentioned up to this point. I’m not an expert and don’t know everything.

Right now though, I just don’t see it. Until I do, I’m of the mind that Iraq was an incredibly stupid military and foreign policy mistake, complicated by Abu Ghraib and other misadventures. I see more upside gain than downside risk to withdrawal. I think we should draw down troop levels immediately, leave a small force behind including intel, and refocus on AQ in A/P and SA, and Soviet nukes.

Here’s the opening, golden opportunity to convince me Iraq wasn’t retarded, and that keeping a large army stationed there is worthwhile for some reason I’m not thinking of… ?

[gandalf]

Cool, Afx. Yeah, it’s been interesting. With ME / Iraq policy questions, I’m wondering if AFF has any thoughts? Military historian of sorts. Others as well? It would be great to learn about some angle on this whole Iraq project that makes it justified and worthwhile, some reason that hasn’t been mentioned up to this point. I’m not an expert and don’t know everything.

Right now though, I just don’t see it. Until I do, I’m of the mind that Iraq was an incredibly stupid military and foreign policy mistake, complicated by Abu Ghraib and other misadventures. I see more upside gain than downside risk to withdrawal. I think we should draw down troop levels immediately, leave a small force behind including intel, and refocus on AQ in A/P and SA, and Soviet nukes.

Here’s the opening, golden opportunity to convince me Iraq wasn’t retarded, and that keeping a large army stationed there is worthwhile for some reason I’m not thinking of… ?

[gandalf]

Cool, Afx. Yeah, it’s been interesting. With ME / Iraq policy questions, I’m wondering if AFF has any thoughts? Military historian of sorts. Others as well? It would be great to learn about some angle on this whole Iraq project that makes it justified and worthwhile, some reason that hasn’t been mentioned up to this point. I’m not an expert and don’t know everything.

Right now though, I just don’t see it. Until I do, I’m of the mind that Iraq was an incredibly stupid military and foreign policy mistake, complicated by Abu Ghraib and other misadventures. I see more upside gain than downside risk to withdrawal. I think we should draw down troop levels immediately, leave a small force behind including intel, and refocus on AQ in A/P and SA, and Soviet nukes.

Here’s the opening, golden opportunity to convince me Iraq wasn’t retarded, and that keeping a large army stationed there is worthwhile for some reason I’m not thinking of… ?

[Author]

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