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eavesdropper
Participant[quote=walterwhite]http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?sudsredirect=true
This is afascinating article on why facts simply don’t change people’s minds.
Personally, I have changed my mind a lot on big issues over the course of my life. hell, even recently. I don’t feel threatened I don’t think by facts of new ideas. but evidently fear of changing one’s mind is a very normal human reaction.
This article may explain some of the discussions we have here…[/quote]
Great article, Scaredy. Doesn’t surprise me at all. It’s human instinct to want to be “right”, and to have others express views that reflect your own. Look at Fox News. They have enjoyed spectacular success by recognizing that there was a huge group of people that had a particular sociopolitical viewpoint that lacked the imprimatur of a legit news organization. I have friends and acquaintances who place *all* their faith in every report coming out of Fox News (even when Fox contradicts itself), but who will not believe a word that comes from the thousands of other major news outlet.
For them and others similarly-minded, I have this handy tip: If an article in 300 daily newspapers and on virtually every major television newscast reports that your favorite politician misappropriated $250K in campaign funds, it’s not mainstream media bias and he’s not being treated unfairly because Fox News says he is. When a web blog reports that the entertainment industry is boycotting and ruining the career of an entertainer because of her courage in expressing her views over the past six months, try to consider the possibility that her “courage” is actually an attempt to get back into the public eye after an absence of 8 years. Your blind assumption that an alternative news source is always trustworthy is no better than the blind faith in the mainstream media you accuse others of having. Questioning is good, but it has to be across the board. Otherwise, you’re not searching for information, and you’re certainly not seeking the truth. You just want confirmation of your own views.
In the old days, it took courage to hold onto an extreme opinion. In those pre-Web days, the strongly-opinionated felt more isolated. Now, however, you just have to log onto the internet and google up some like-minded buddies. No matter how far-fetched or radical, one can always find “evidence” to support their viewpoints. I am seriously disturbed by the growing number of people who complain bitterly that the “mainstream media” are being untruthful and inaccurate, and then opine that bloggers are a more than satisfactory replacement for news organizations.
About ten years ago, when it became apparent that the amount of information on the Internet and other outlets was being completely overwhelmed by the volume of misinformation, the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania started a program called FactCheck. FactCheck.org was hailed by all as an invaluable resource, and utilized by politicians and candidates for public office as an unimpeachable source of information. The honeymoon lasted about 18 months. Despite the fact that FactCheck.org provides ample evidence of exhaustive searches in checking out the validity of information, their accuracy, honesty, and freedom from bias was called into question when the evidence was not favorable to particular groups. So, naturally, there had to be a “new” fact-checking website that would be completely unbiased, but that, peculiarly, seemed to publish findings that were consistently favorable to one party and consistently negative to another. The party it favored, and its followers, had no qualms about using the new site to provide legitimacy to its claims. What is remarkable to me is that people of a particular political bent will zero in on one story that is negative to their party or candidate, and manage to completely disregard the 40 positive ones that have been published in the prior two weeks by the same media outlet.
Many people have extremely strong opinions these days. As I mentioned earlier, it’s human instinct to want to be right. And these days, anyone can be. Legitimacy for your views, no matter how extreme or inaccurate can be had for the mere cost of a Google search. And don’t underestimate the value of denial. After all, everyone know that if you don’t acknowledge facts, they can’t be valid. Right? You can create your own little alternative view universe, in which all of the “smart” people – the ones with common sense – think exactly as you do. And where you can preach your own particular sociopolitical gospel to the nonbelievers, comfortable in the knowledge that it’s the “truth”.
The sad part is that it is getting increasingly difficult – indeed, almost impossible – to find valid sources of information on the Internet. It’s full of “information” sites and blogs that are actually people’s opinions, or worse, plagiarization of other people’s opinions. Worse yet are the news organizations for whom traditional news reporting has become an unprofitable sideline, and is treated as such. They’re tripping over themselves taking pages out of the Fox News playbook. Their programming schedule is chock full of commentary shows with buffoonish characters bloviating endlessly on topics exhausted two weeks before.
My top choices for news and information these days are the PBS NewsHour, the Daily Show, and the Onion. It’s gotten so the headlines of the Onion are indistinguishable from those of the mainstream media, and if I’m going to be entertained, I want it to be from a source with talented staff.
Participant[quote=UCGal] It wasn’t until I was 17 or 18 that I realized how unusual our dinner table conversations were and how many people ignore facts that don’t fit their mindset.
Piggington reminds me of those old dinner table conversations – lots of differing views, (some) people bringing substance to debate. It’s a good thing.[/quote]
Kudos to your parents, UCGal. Whether the dinner table debates were intentional, or simply fallout from their political differences, your parents provided you with something extraordinarily rare and valuable: exposure to healthy arguing. You were able to discover that argumentation is a skill, not the natural instinct that many people assume it to be. You were also able to see that people with diametrically opposed views can live together and sustain a healthy relationship. And most important, you learned the need for and the value of listening to other viewpoints.
All of these things contribute to your excellence as a Pigg.
Participant[quote=UCGal] It wasn’t until I was 17 or 18 that I realized how unusual our dinner table conversations were and how many people ignore facts that don’t fit their mindset.
Piggington reminds me of those old dinner table conversations – lots of differing views, (some) people bringing substance to debate. It’s a good thing.[/quote]
Kudos to your parents, UCGal. Whether the dinner table debates were intentional, or simply fallout from their political differences, your parents provided you with something extraordinarily rare and valuable: exposure to healthy arguing. You were able to discover that argumentation is a skill, not the natural instinct that many people assume it to be. You were also able to see that people with diametrically opposed views can live together and sustain a healthy relationship. And most important, you learned the need for and the value of listening to other viewpoints.
All of these things contribute to your excellence as a Pigg.
Participant[quote=UCGal] It wasn’t until I was 17 or 18 that I realized how unusual our dinner table conversations were and how many people ignore facts that don’t fit their mindset.
Piggington reminds me of those old dinner table conversations – lots of differing views, (some) people bringing substance to debate. It’s a good thing.[/quote]
Kudos to your parents, UCGal. Whether the dinner table debates were intentional, or simply fallout from their political differences, your parents provided you with something extraordinarily rare and valuable: exposure to healthy arguing. You were able to discover that argumentation is a skill, not the natural instinct that many people assume it to be. You were also able to see that people with diametrically opposed views can live together and sustain a healthy relationship. And most important, you learned the need for and the value of listening to other viewpoints.
All of these things contribute to your excellence as a Pigg.
Participant[quote=UCGal] It wasn’t until I was 17 or 18 that I realized how unusual our dinner table conversations were and how many people ignore facts that don’t fit their mindset.
Piggington reminds me of those old dinner table conversations – lots of differing views, (some) people bringing substance to debate. It’s a good thing.[/quote]
Kudos to your parents, UCGal. Whether the dinner table debates were intentional, or simply fallout from their political differences, your parents provided you with something extraordinarily rare and valuable: exposure to healthy arguing. You were able to discover that argumentation is a skill, not the natural instinct that many people assume it to be. You were also able to see that people with diametrically opposed views can live together and sustain a healthy relationship. And most important, you learned the need for and the value of listening to other viewpoints.
All of these things contribute to your excellence as a Pigg.
Participant[quote=UCGal] It wasn’t until I was 17 or 18 that I realized how unusual our dinner table conversations were and how many people ignore facts that don’t fit their mindset.
Piggington reminds me of those old dinner table conversations – lots of differing views, (some) people bringing substance to debate. It’s a good thing.[/quote]
Kudos to your parents, UCGal. Whether the dinner table debates were intentional, or simply fallout from their political differences, your parents provided you with something extraordinarily rare and valuable: exposure to healthy arguing. You were able to discover that argumentation is a skill, not the natural instinct that many people assume it to be. You were also able to see that people with diametrically opposed views can live together and sustain a healthy relationship. And most important, you learned the need for and the value of listening to other viewpoints.
All of these things contribute to your excellence as a Pigg.
ParticipantClarification: Now as for chocolate, that is a whole other biochemical universe, and not one into which I am prepared to venture this early in the morning. But let’s just say that, where chocolate is concerned, one can expect long-standing laws of nature to be challenged.
ParticipantClarification: Now as for chocolate, that is a whole other biochemical universe, and not one into which I am prepared to venture this early in the morning. But let’s just say that, where chocolate is concerned, one can expect long-standing laws of nature to be challenged.
ParticipantClarification: Now as for chocolate, that is a whole other biochemical universe, and not one into which I am prepared to venture this early in the morning. But let’s just say that, where chocolate is concerned, one can expect long-standing laws of nature to be challenged.
ParticipantClarification: Now as for chocolate, that is a whole other biochemical universe, and not one into which I am prepared to venture this early in the morning. But let’s just say that, where chocolate is concerned, one can expect long-standing laws of nature to be challenged.
ParticipantClarification: Now as for chocolate, that is a whole other biochemical universe, and not one into which I am prepared to venture this early in the morning. But let’s just say that, where chocolate is concerned, one can expect long-standing laws of nature to be challenged.
Participant[quote=ocrenter][quote=jpinpb]
I’m sure there must be some study out there on this, whether certain foods raise serotonin levels. I bet eating an apple or an apricot won’t do it, but chocolate cake would.
I mean, certain food are comforting, right? I can understand if there’s a chemical reaction when eating certain foods that cause people to be happy and they don’t care about their weight, b/c, well, they’re happy.[/quote]
it is well known that fat and carbs drive up the serotonin level in the system rapidly.
of course, that increase is very short lived and the level falls quickly as well. this means instead of a cookie, you got to go for the second. but after the second, you need to go for the third… so on and so forth…
this is the same pattern that leads to narcotic addiction. The high created by the narcs are very short lived, the low then create the need to seek out more narcs to get back to the high. this is why sugar and fat are so addictive.
except instead of narcotics, sugar and fat are cheap, they are everywhere, and they are offered with a smile and often with a toy to children everywhere.[/quote]
jp, your observation that food = happiness is an astute one. The role of emotions in overeating has been studied extensively for many years by the world’s leading researchers in obesity medicine. There’s a huge body (no pun intended) of work on this topic available in the medical literature. The treatment of obesity, and its underlying causes, is incredibly complex and difficult. In my opinion, within 10 years it will be the most challenging health issue we will be facing as a nation, both medically and economically.
That being said, it is not likely that your husband went gaga over his chocolate cake because of rapidly rising serotonin levels. Serotonin (that which is synthesized in the brain, or about 20% of the body’s total) is an endogenous neurotransmitter that plays an essential role in mood control, temp regulation, and sensory perception. Nerve cells in the brain pass messages to accomplish tasks related to these functions via chemical synapses with the help of serotonin. The sending (presynaptic) cell releases serotonin into the synaptic gap, whereupon receptors on the surface of the recipient (postsynaptic) cell “recognize” the serotonin and the messaging process is completed. Most of the serotonin is then returned to the presynaptic cell for recycling (reuptake). In some neuropsychological disorders (e.g., clinical depression), SSRIs like Prozac, Celexa, or Zoloft, are administered to prevent reuptake, causing serotonin to remain in the synaptic gap for longer period, ensuring repeated stimulation on the postsynaptic cell.
Serotonin is unable to cross the blood-brain barrier, so if your brain is in short supply, it cannot be administered directly like a drug, nor can you eat food that will directly synthesize serotonin. You can either take an SSRI med to make more efficient use of the existing supply, or you can switch to a diet high in complex carbohydrates in order to produce tryptophan, an amino acid that can cross the B-B barrier, and that is the precursor to serotonin. Fats are also necessary, however, they should be “healthy” fats, like omega-3s.
Keep in mind that there are other “brain chemicals” or neurotransmitters that can contribute to our reactions to experiences. While serotonin is essential to maintaining a level mood, dopamine is the chemical messenger that allows us to experience pleasure and pain. While this seems to be more of what you were describing in your husband’s cake experience, it’s unlikely that his dopamine levels are fluctuating to that point. Dopamine plays a huge role in drug, and other forms of, addiction. Cocaine and speed have an incredible effect on dopamine levels. Cocaine works like an SSRI: it prevents the reuptake of dopamine released from the postsynaptic cell, permitting more dopamine to remain in the synaptic gap and continue to stimulate the dopamine receptors on the postsynaptic cell.
As for chocolate cake consumption, it’s a much faster reaction than would occur with neurotransmitters alone. You’re dealing with simple carbs that have sugar molecules that break apart almost instantly and infuse the bloodstream. Simultaneously, the pancreas releases insulin which triggers the body’s cells to pull the glucose out of your blood and store it for future use. In some people (definitely not all), this process will cause a “rush” or burst of energy. However, it is soon followed by a “crash”: loss of blood glucose can cause extreme fatigue and loss of energy. Many people feel the need to eat or drink something sweet to give them a “boost”, and the process just keeps repeating itself.
While increased insulin levels can cause serotonin levels to rise, it is typically not in levels high enough or long-lasting enough to cause a change in a depressed individual. If you are at all familiar with the antidepressant drugs on the market, you know that the patient usually has to wait at least two to six weeks to notice any improvement in their mood, and can frequently experience unpleasant side effects in the initial period. The reasons for this are numerous and complex, and related to the adaptation of multiple systems to changing neurotransmitter levels.
So I’m thinking that your husband liked the cake because is was just so f***ing good. Some absolutely normal people out there really get into their food, just like those who really get into music or art. Typically these are individuals who aren’t going to sit down and eat the whole cake at one sitting. Yes, there are certainly people out there – lots and lots – who have psychological issues with food, and many of them resort to eating to unbelieveably excessive levels. Sometimes it can be because they feel that everything in their lives is so out of control, and the food they choose to put into their mouths IS under their control (or so they think). Other times, people are feeling unloved, and certain foods can make them think of times when they were fed by people who loved them. Sometimes, they have inner emotions that are so destructive that they eat and eat, trying to smother them (similar to the expression that alcoholics are “drowning their sorrows”). To be sure, there is very often, a definite psychological reason under a case of obesity. And it’s my belief that the psychological and biological are very closely intertwined in may cases, and cannot be separated.
But as long as your husband’s weight remains at a reasonably healthy level (as per his doctor, not his opinion) and is getting sincere pleasure from exceptional food, I don’t think you have to worry.
Participant[quote=ocrenter][quote=jpinpb]
I’m sure there must be some study out there on this, whether certain foods raise serotonin levels. I bet eating an apple or an apricot won’t do it, but chocolate cake would.
I mean, certain food are comforting, right? I can understand if there’s a chemical reaction when eating certain foods that cause people to be happy and they don’t care about their weight, b/c, well, they’re happy.[/quote]
it is well known that fat and carbs drive up the serotonin level in the system rapidly.
of course, that increase is very short lived and the level falls quickly as well. this means instead of a cookie, you got to go for the second. but after the second, you need to go for the third… so on and so forth…
this is the same pattern that leads to narcotic addiction. The high created by the narcs are very short lived, the low then create the need to seek out more narcs to get back to the high. this is why sugar and fat are so addictive.
except instead of narcotics, sugar and fat are cheap, they are everywhere, and they are offered with a smile and often with a toy to children everywhere.[/quote]
jp, your observation that food = happiness is an astute one. The role of emotions in overeating has been studied extensively for many years by the world’s leading researchers in obesity medicine. There’s a huge body (no pun intended) of work on this topic available in the medical literature. The treatment of obesity, and its underlying causes, is incredibly complex and difficult. In my opinion, within 10 years it will be the most challenging health issue we will be facing as a nation, both medically and economically.
That being said, it is not likely that your husband went gaga over his chocolate cake because of rapidly rising serotonin levels. Serotonin (that which is synthesized in the brain, or about 20% of the body’s total) is an endogenous neurotransmitter that plays an essential role in mood control, temp regulation, and sensory perception. Nerve cells in the brain pass messages to accomplish tasks related to these functions via chemical synapses with the help of serotonin. The sending (presynaptic) cell releases serotonin into the synaptic gap, whereupon receptors on the surface of the recipient (postsynaptic) cell “recognize” the serotonin and the messaging process is completed. Most of the serotonin is then returned to the presynaptic cell for recycling (reuptake). In some neuropsychological disorders (e.g., clinical depression), SSRIs like Prozac, Celexa, or Zoloft, are administered to prevent reuptake, causing serotonin to remain in the synaptic gap for longer period, ensuring repeated stimulation on the postsynaptic cell.
Serotonin is unable to cross the blood-brain barrier, so if your brain is in short supply, it cannot be administered directly like a drug, nor can you eat food that will directly synthesize serotonin. You can either take an SSRI med to make more efficient use of the existing supply, or you can switch to a diet high in complex carbohydrates in order to produce tryptophan, an amino acid that can cross the B-B barrier, and that is the precursor to serotonin. Fats are also necessary, however, they should be “healthy” fats, like omega-3s.
Keep in mind that there are other “brain chemicals” or neurotransmitters that can contribute to our reactions to experiences. While serotonin is essential to maintaining a level mood, dopamine is the chemical messenger that allows us to experience pleasure and pain. While this seems to be more of what you were describing in your husband’s cake experience, it’s unlikely that his dopamine levels are fluctuating to that point. Dopamine plays a huge role in drug, and other forms of, addiction. Cocaine and speed have an incredible effect on dopamine levels. Cocaine works like an SSRI: it prevents the reuptake of dopamine released from the postsynaptic cell, permitting more dopamine to remain in the synaptic gap and continue to stimulate the dopamine receptors on the postsynaptic cell.
As for chocolate cake consumption, it’s a much faster reaction than would occur with neurotransmitters alone. You’re dealing with simple carbs that have sugar molecules that break apart almost instantly and infuse the bloodstream. Simultaneously, the pancreas releases insulin which triggers the body’s cells to pull the glucose out of your blood and store it for future use. In some people (definitely not all), this process will cause a “rush” or burst of energy. However, it is soon followed by a “crash”: loss of blood glucose can cause extreme fatigue and loss of energy. Many people feel the need to eat or drink something sweet to give them a “boost”, and the process just keeps repeating itself.
While increased insulin levels can cause serotonin levels to rise, it is typically not in levels high enough or long-lasting enough to cause a change in a depressed individual. If you are at all familiar with the antidepressant drugs on the market, you know that the patient usually has to wait at least two to six weeks to notice any improvement in their mood, and can frequently experience unpleasant side effects in the initial period. The reasons for this are numerous and complex, and related to the adaptation of multiple systems to changing neurotransmitter levels.
So I’m thinking that your husband liked the cake because is was just so f***ing good. Some absolutely normal people out there really get into their food, just like those who really get into music or art. Typically these are individuals who aren’t going to sit down and eat the whole cake at one sitting. Yes, there are certainly people out there – lots and lots – who have psychological issues with food, and many of them resort to eating to unbelieveably excessive levels. Sometimes it can be because they feel that everything in their lives is so out of control, and the food they choose to put into their mouths IS under their control (or so they think). Other times, people are feeling unloved, and certain foods can make them think of times when they were fed by people who loved them. Sometimes, they have inner emotions that are so destructive that they eat and eat, trying to smother them (similar to the expression that alcoholics are “drowning their sorrows”). To be sure, there is very often, a definite psychological reason under a case of obesity. And it’s my belief that the psychological and biological are very closely intertwined in may cases, and cannot be separated.
But as long as your husband’s weight remains at a reasonably healthy level (as per his doctor, not his opinion) and is getting sincere pleasure from exceptional food, I don’t think you have to worry.
Participant[quote=ocrenter][quote=jpinpb]
I’m sure there must be some study out there on this, whether certain foods raise serotonin levels. I bet eating an apple or an apricot won’t do it, but chocolate cake would.
I mean, certain food are comforting, right? I can understand if there’s a chemical reaction when eating certain foods that cause people to be happy and they don’t care about their weight, b/c, well, they’re happy.[/quote]
it is well known that fat and carbs drive up the serotonin level in the system rapidly.
of course, that increase is very short lived and the level falls quickly as well. this means instead of a cookie, you got to go for the second. but after the second, you need to go for the third… so on and so forth…
this is the same pattern that leads to narcotic addiction. The high created by the narcs are very short lived, the low then create the need to seek out more narcs to get back to the high. this is why sugar and fat are so addictive.
except instead of narcotics, sugar and fat are cheap, they are everywhere, and they are offered with a smile and often with a toy to children everywhere.[/quote]
jp, your observation that food = happiness is an astute one. The role of emotions in overeating has been studied extensively for many years by the world’s leading researchers in obesity medicine. There’s a huge body (no pun intended) of work on this topic available in the medical literature. The treatment of obesity, and its underlying causes, is incredibly complex and difficult. In my opinion, within 10 years it will be the most challenging health issue we will be facing as a nation, both medically and economically.
That being said, it is not likely that your husband went gaga over his chocolate cake because of rapidly rising serotonin levels. Serotonin (that which is synthesized in the brain, or about 20% of the body’s total) is an endogenous neurotransmitter that plays an essential role in mood control, temp regulation, and sensory perception. Nerve cells in the brain pass messages to accomplish tasks related to these functions via chemical synapses with the help of serotonin. The sending (presynaptic) cell releases serotonin into the synaptic gap, whereupon receptors on the surface of the recipient (postsynaptic) cell “recognize” the serotonin and the messaging process is completed. Most of the serotonin is then returned to the presynaptic cell for recycling (reuptake). In some neuropsychological disorders (e.g., clinical depression), SSRIs like Prozac, Celexa, or Zoloft, are administered to prevent reuptake, causing serotonin to remain in the synaptic gap for longer period, ensuring repeated stimulation on the postsynaptic cell.
Serotonin is unable to cross the blood-brain barrier, so if your brain is in short supply, it cannot be administered directly like a drug, nor can you eat food that will directly synthesize serotonin. You can either take an SSRI med to make more efficient use of the existing supply, or you can switch to a diet high in complex carbohydrates in order to produce tryptophan, an amino acid that can cross the B-B barrier, and that is the precursor to serotonin. Fats are also necessary, however, they should be “healthy” fats, like omega-3s.
Keep in mind that there are other “brain chemicals” or neurotransmitters that can contribute to our reactions to experiences. While serotonin is essential to maintaining a level mood, dopamine is the chemical messenger that allows us to experience pleasure and pain. While this seems to be more of what you were describing in your husband’s cake experience, it’s unlikely that his dopamine levels are fluctuating to that point. Dopamine plays a huge role in drug, and other forms of, addiction. Cocaine and speed have an incredible effect on dopamine levels. Cocaine works like an SSRI: it prevents the reuptake of dopamine released from the postsynaptic cell, permitting more dopamine to remain in the synaptic gap and continue to stimulate the dopamine receptors on the postsynaptic cell.
As for chocolate cake consumption, it’s a much faster reaction than would occur with neurotransmitters alone. You’re dealing with simple carbs that have sugar molecules that break apart almost instantly and infuse the bloodstream. Simultaneously, the pancreas releases insulin which triggers the body’s cells to pull the glucose out of your blood and store it for future use. In some people (definitely not all), this process will cause a “rush” or burst of energy. However, it is soon followed by a “crash”: loss of blood glucose can cause extreme fatigue and loss of energy. Many people feel the need to eat or drink something sweet to give them a “boost”, and the process just keeps repeating itself.
While increased insulin levels can cause serotonin levels to rise, it is typically not in levels high enough or long-lasting enough to cause a change in a depressed individual. If you are at all familiar with the antidepressant drugs on the market, you know that the patient usually has to wait at least two to six weeks to notice any improvement in their mood, and can frequently experience unpleasant side effects in the initial period. The reasons for this are numerous and complex, and related to the adaptation of multiple systems to changing neurotransmitter levels.
So I’m thinking that your husband liked the cake because is was just so f***ing good. Some absolutely normal people out there really get into their food, just like those who really get into music or art. Typically these are individuals who aren’t going to sit down and eat the whole cake at one sitting. Yes, there are certainly people out there – lots and lots – who have psychological issues with food, and many of them resort to eating to unbelieveably excessive levels. Sometimes it can be because they feel that everything in their lives is so out of control, and the food they choose to put into their mouths IS under their control (or so they think). Other times, people are feeling unloved, and certain foods can make them think of times when they were fed by people who loved them. Sometimes, they have inner emotions that are so destructive that they eat and eat, trying to smother them (similar to the expression that alcoholics are “drowning their sorrows”). To be sure, there is very often, a definite psychological reason under a case of obesity. And it’s my belief that the psychological and biological are very closely intertwined in may cases, and cannot be separated.
But as long as your husband’s weight remains at a reasonably healthy level (as per his doctor, not his opinion) and is getting sincere pleasure from exceptional food, I don’t think you have to worry.
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