[eavesdropper]

[quote=bearishgurl] eavesdropper, you are fortunate to be living near many antique dealers in VA. I have visited a few in Loudoun County with a dear relative (now deceased) and had a lot of fun.[/quote]

bearishgurl, you’re not kidding. And the best part is that if you journey into the less-populated rural areas of the state (not talking about “Deliverance” territory), the selection is fabulous, and cheap, cheap, cheap!

When were you last in Loudoun County?

[eavesdropper]

[quote=bearishgurl] eavesdropper, you are fortunate to be living near many antique dealers in VA. I have visited a few in Loudoun County with a dear relative (now deceased) and had a lot of fun.[/quote]

bearishgurl, you’re not kidding. And the best part is that if you journey into the less-populated rural areas of the state (not talking about “Deliverance” territory), the selection is fabulous, and cheap, cheap, cheap!

When were you last in Loudoun County?

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Ricechex]So far…here is what we tried today:
Toyota Avalon–he is still too tall and can’t see the stoplights.
Camry, Mazda6 (I have one) too small.
Honda Element–fit him well, very boxy, large interior, but seems a little cheap.
Toyota Scion–better price than the Element, also boxy and fit him, but again…just didn’t seem to be the right car.
Prius–he liked all the gadgets, but again too small.
His partner has a 2003 Grand Marquis, and he thinks maybe a new one of those might suit.
Will definitely check the Toyota Sienna.

Like I said…he is a big guy![/quote]

Just don’t the dealer talk him into one of the more expensive models. Unless he absolutely must have heated leather seats or a DVD player or all that other useless shit, he should be able to stay within his target price range.

I should remind you that mine is a 2004. Hopefully, Toyota has done nothing to “improve” what was already a perfect vehicle (decent power, excellent space, handling like a sporty sedan’s, low price, good gas mileage – oooh! I get hot just typing.) The only thing they could have done to truly improve it is to make the middle row of seats fold into the floor like the rear row.

Speaking of power, one night I was on New York Avenue in downtown DC at about 3 am. I had some young cocky kid sitting beside me at the stoplight who didn’t like it because I was first off the line at the previous red, and was apparently determined to teach an old housewife in a minivan a lesson with his brand-new Chevy Avalanche. I was bored, and desperate for something to keep me awake, so I bit. I was first off the line again, and he never did catch up with me, even though our vehicles got up into the 90s. I’ll bet he’s still in therapy.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Ricechex]So far…here is what we tried today:
Toyota Avalon–he is still too tall and can’t see the stoplights.
Camry, Mazda6 (I have one) too small.
Honda Element–fit him well, very boxy, large interior, but seems a little cheap.
Toyota Scion–better price than the Element, also boxy and fit him, but again…just didn’t seem to be the right car.
Prius–he liked all the gadgets, but again too small.
His partner has a 2003 Grand Marquis, and he thinks maybe a new one of those might suit.
Will definitely check the Toyota Sienna.

Like I said…he is a big guy![/quote]

Just don’t the dealer talk him into one of the more expensive models. Unless he absolutely must have heated leather seats or a DVD player or all that other useless shit, he should be able to stay within his target price range.

I should remind you that mine is a 2004. Hopefully, Toyota has done nothing to “improve” what was already a perfect vehicle (decent power, excellent space, handling like a sporty sedan’s, low price, good gas mileage – oooh! I get hot just typing.) The only thing they could have done to truly improve it is to make the middle row of seats fold into the floor like the rear row.

Speaking of power, one night I was on New York Avenue in downtown DC at about 3 am. I had some young cocky kid sitting beside me at the stoplight who didn’t like it because I was first off the line at the previous red, and was apparently determined to teach an old housewife in a minivan a lesson with his brand-new Chevy Avalanche. I was bored, and desperate for something to keep me awake, so I bit. I was first off the line again, and he never did catch up with me, even though our vehicles got up into the 90s. I’ll bet he’s still in therapy.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Ricechex]So far…here is what we tried today:
Toyota Avalon–he is still too tall and can’t see the stoplights.
Camry, Mazda6 (I have one) too small.
Honda Element–fit him well, very boxy, large interior, but seems a little cheap.
Toyota Scion–better price than the Element, also boxy and fit him, but again…just didn’t seem to be the right car.
Prius–he liked all the gadgets, but again too small.
His partner has a 2003 Grand Marquis, and he thinks maybe a new one of those might suit.
Will definitely check the Toyota Sienna.

Like I said…he is a big guy![/quote]

Just don’t the dealer talk him into one of the more expensive models. Unless he absolutely must have heated leather seats or a DVD player or all that other useless shit, he should be able to stay within his target price range.

I should remind you that mine is a 2004. Hopefully, Toyota has done nothing to “improve” what was already a perfect vehicle (decent power, excellent space, handling like a sporty sedan’s, low price, good gas mileage – oooh! I get hot just typing.) The only thing they could have done to truly improve it is to make the middle row of seats fold into the floor like the rear row.

Speaking of power, one night I was on New York Avenue in downtown DC at about 3 am. I had some young cocky kid sitting beside me at the stoplight who didn’t like it because I was first off the line at the previous red, and was apparently determined to teach an old housewife in a minivan a lesson with his brand-new Chevy Avalanche. I was bored, and desperate for something to keep me awake, so I bit. I was first off the line again, and he never did catch up with me, even though our vehicles got up into the 90s. I’ll bet he’s still in therapy.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Ricechex]So far…here is what we tried today:
Toyota Avalon–he is still too tall and can’t see the stoplights.
Camry, Mazda6 (I have one) too small.
Honda Element–fit him well, very boxy, large interior, but seems a little cheap.
Toyota Scion–better price than the Element, also boxy and fit him, but again…just didn’t seem to be the right car.
Prius–he liked all the gadgets, but again too small.
His partner has a 2003 Grand Marquis, and he thinks maybe a new one of those might suit.
Will definitely check the Toyota Sienna.

Like I said…he is a big guy![/quote]

Just don’t the dealer talk him into one of the more expensive models. Unless he absolutely must have heated leather seats or a DVD player or all that other useless shit, he should be able to stay within his target price range.

I should remind you that mine is a 2004. Hopefully, Toyota has done nothing to “improve” what was already a perfect vehicle (decent power, excellent space, handling like a sporty sedan’s, low price, good gas mileage – oooh! I get hot just typing.) The only thing they could have done to truly improve it is to make the middle row of seats fold into the floor like the rear row.

Speaking of power, one night I was on New York Avenue in downtown DC at about 3 am. I had some young cocky kid sitting beside me at the stoplight who didn’t like it because I was first off the line at the previous red, and was apparently determined to teach an old housewife in a minivan a lesson with his brand-new Chevy Avalanche. I was bored, and desperate for something to keep me awake, so I bit. I was first off the line again, and he never did catch up with me, even though our vehicles got up into the 90s. I’ll bet he’s still in therapy.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=Ricechex]So far…here is what we tried today:
Toyota Avalon–he is still too tall and can’t see the stoplights.
Camry, Mazda6 (I have one) too small.
Honda Element–fit him well, very boxy, large interior, but seems a little cheap.
Toyota Scion–better price than the Element, also boxy and fit him, but again…just didn’t seem to be the right car.
Prius–he liked all the gadgets, but again too small.
His partner has a 2003 Grand Marquis, and he thinks maybe a new one of those might suit.
Will definitely check the Toyota Sienna.

Like I said…he is a big guy![/quote]

Just don’t the dealer talk him into one of the more expensive models. Unless he absolutely must have heated leather seats or a DVD player or all that other useless shit, he should be able to stay within his target price range.

I should remind you that mine is a 2004. Hopefully, Toyota has done nothing to “improve” what was already a perfect vehicle (decent power, excellent space, handling like a sporty sedan’s, low price, good gas mileage – oooh! I get hot just typing.) The only thing they could have done to truly improve it is to make the middle row of seats fold into the floor like the rear row.

Speaking of power, one night I was on New York Avenue in downtown DC at about 3 am. I had some young cocky kid sitting beside me at the stoplight who didn’t like it because I was first off the line at the previous red, and was apparently determined to teach an old housewife in a minivan a lesson with his brand-new Chevy Avalanche. I was bored, and desperate for something to keep me awake, so I bit. I was first off the line again, and he never did catch up with me, even though our vehicles got up into the 90s. I’ll bet he’s still in therapy.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=paramount]Lot’s to choose from, but I guess I would stick with either a Camry/Accord or Mazda 6.[/quote]

I don’t know…at 6 foot 3 inches, Ricechex’s friend is a long drink of water. Is the headroom and/or legroom good in those models?

I’ve got a 2000 Mazda 626 (forerunner of the 6), and it’s still running strong at 160K miles (and she’s gone through 10 hard East Coast winters, bless her!). I’ve also had a 2004 Camry (V6) and a 2009 Camry (4 cylinder). Loved the 2004: roomy, handled like a dream, and decent gas mileage (around 26 mpg hwy). I was commuting from DC to Philly (240 mi R/T) back then, and it served me well for the 2 years I had her. No problems – just traded her in on something else (more on that later).

The 2009 Camry was NOT a good experience. Principal reason for buying it was to get a nice sedan with decent gas mileage. My 4-cyl Mazda got me 32 to 35 mpg (manual trans), so I figured the Camry would get me reasonably close. WRONG. I was getting no more than 22 mpg hwy, consistently. Turned out to be the most expensive car I ever bought since I felt compelled to trade it in on a Prius six weeks later. Love the Prius, but don’t know if it’s the car for Ricechex’s friend.

Which brings me to my recommendation, which is the car I traded my 2004 Camry V6 for: a Toyota Sienna minivan. Talk about a perfect vehicle! I bought it when I was doing some major redesign and construction projects on my last house, and you can’t believe the range and the amount of stuff I’ve managed to fit into that car. I can fit a max of 7 passengers (they make them big enough for 8), and still have a huge amount of room for luggage and gear. The last row of seats can fold into the floor, and the middle row of seats is removable; once, after I had done that, I loaded 39 bags of mulch (yes, large bags) into the van, and half of the cargo area was still empty. I’m really into antiques (the big primitive-style ones), and there’s never been a piece that I haven’t been able to transport.

But the big surprises were how it handled and its excellent gas mileage. I can tear around winding country roads, narrow mountain tunnels, and corkscrew highway exit ramps in that thing, sometimes at 75 mph, and it just clings to the road; the handling is as good as any car I’ve ever owned (seems to have just the right combination of aerodynamics and weight). And, in its first 4 years, or so, I was getting 27 mpg hwy. Best part? I walked out of the dealer with this brand-new Sienna for $20,400. It’s the CE model (which I’m convinced means “cheap edition”), but it has the same engine as the $43,000 version did, and it has everything I need. And it’s still going strong at 125K miles.

So, Ricechex, I’d recommend that your friend look into one of these jewels. If he goes online and compares the amounts of leg-, shoulder-, and headroom, and the cargo capacity of the Sienna with that of the largest SUVs on the market (Expedition, Yukon, Suburban), he’s likely to find them very close (in some areas, the Sienna may even surpass them). But he’ll be able to get much better gas mileage, and greater driving comfort and handling, at a price in his range. Yes, I’ve had friends who ridiculed me for driving a “soccer mom vehicle”, but I’m a big girl, well able to handle it – especially when they complain about high gas credit card bills.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=paramount]Lot’s to choose from, but I guess I would stick with either a Camry/Accord or Mazda 6.[/quote]

I don’t know…at 6 foot 3 inches, Ricechex’s friend is a long drink of water. Is the headroom and/or legroom good in those models?

I’ve got a 2000 Mazda 626 (forerunner of the 6), and it’s still running strong at 160K miles (and she’s gone through 10 hard East Coast winters, bless her!). I’ve also had a 2004 Camry (V6) and a 2009 Camry (4 cylinder). Loved the 2004: roomy, handled like a dream, and decent gas mileage (around 26 mpg hwy). I was commuting from DC to Philly (240 mi R/T) back then, and it served me well for the 2 years I had her. No problems – just traded her in on something else (more on that later).

The 2009 Camry was NOT a good experience. Principal reason for buying it was to get a nice sedan with decent gas mileage. My 4-cyl Mazda got me 32 to 35 mpg (manual trans), so I figured the Camry would get me reasonably close. WRONG. I was getting no more than 22 mpg hwy, consistently. Turned out to be the most expensive car I ever bought since I felt compelled to trade it in on a Prius six weeks later. Love the Prius, but don’t know if it’s the car for Ricechex’s friend.

Which brings me to my recommendation, which is the car I traded my 2004 Camry V6 for: a Toyota Sienna minivan. Talk about a perfect vehicle! I bought it when I was doing some major redesign and construction projects on my last house, and you can’t believe the range and the amount of stuff I’ve managed to fit into that car. I can fit a max of 7 passengers (they make them big enough for 8), and still have a huge amount of room for luggage and gear. The last row of seats can fold into the floor, and the middle row of seats is removable; once, after I had done that, I loaded 39 bags of mulch (yes, large bags) into the van, and half of the cargo area was still empty. I’m really into antiques (the big primitive-style ones), and there’s never been a piece that I haven’t been able to transport.

But the big surprises were how it handled and its excellent gas mileage. I can tear around winding country roads, narrow mountain tunnels, and corkscrew highway exit ramps in that thing, sometimes at 75 mph, and it just clings to the road; the handling is as good as any car I’ve ever owned (seems to have just the right combination of aerodynamics and weight). And, in its first 4 years, or so, I was getting 27 mpg hwy. Best part? I walked out of the dealer with this brand-new Sienna for $20,400. It’s the CE model (which I’m convinced means “cheap edition”), but it has the same engine as the $43,000 version did, and it has everything I need. And it’s still going strong at 125K miles.

So, Ricechex, I’d recommend that your friend look into one of these jewels. If he goes online and compares the amounts of leg-, shoulder-, and headroom, and the cargo capacity of the Sienna with that of the largest SUVs on the market (Expedition, Yukon, Suburban), he’s likely to find them very close (in some areas, the Sienna may even surpass them). But he’ll be able to get much better gas mileage, and greater driving comfort and handling, at a price in his range. Yes, I’ve had friends who ridiculed me for driving a “soccer mom vehicle”, but I’m a big girl, well able to handle it – especially when they complain about high gas credit card bills.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=paramount]Lot’s to choose from, but I guess I would stick with either a Camry/Accord or Mazda 6.[/quote]

I don’t know…at 6 foot 3 inches, Ricechex’s friend is a long drink of water. Is the headroom and/or legroom good in those models?

I’ve got a 2000 Mazda 626 (forerunner of the 6), and it’s still running strong at 160K miles (and she’s gone through 10 hard East Coast winters, bless her!). I’ve also had a 2004 Camry (V6) and a 2009 Camry (4 cylinder). Loved the 2004: roomy, handled like a dream, and decent gas mileage (around 26 mpg hwy). I was commuting from DC to Philly (240 mi R/T) back then, and it served me well for the 2 years I had her. No problems – just traded her in on something else (more on that later).

The 2009 Camry was NOT a good experience. Principal reason for buying it was to get a nice sedan with decent gas mileage. My 4-cyl Mazda got me 32 to 35 mpg (manual trans), so I figured the Camry would get me reasonably close. WRONG. I was getting no more than 22 mpg hwy, consistently. Turned out to be the most expensive car I ever bought since I felt compelled to trade it in on a Prius six weeks later. Love the Prius, but don’t know if it’s the car for Ricechex’s friend.

Which brings me to my recommendation, which is the car I traded my 2004 Camry V6 for: a Toyota Sienna minivan. Talk about a perfect vehicle! I bought it when I was doing some major redesign and construction projects on my last house, and you can’t believe the range and the amount of stuff I’ve managed to fit into that car. I can fit a max of 7 passengers (they make them big enough for 8), and still have a huge amount of room for luggage and gear. The last row of seats can fold into the floor, and the middle row of seats is removable; once, after I had done that, I loaded 39 bags of mulch (yes, large bags) into the van, and half of the cargo area was still empty. I’m really into antiques (the big primitive-style ones), and there’s never been a piece that I haven’t been able to transport.

But the big surprises were how it handled and its excellent gas mileage. I can tear around winding country roads, narrow mountain tunnels, and corkscrew highway exit ramps in that thing, sometimes at 75 mph, and it just clings to the road; the handling is as good as any car I’ve ever owned (seems to have just the right combination of aerodynamics and weight). And, in its first 4 years, or so, I was getting 27 mpg hwy. Best part? I walked out of the dealer with this brand-new Sienna for $20,400. It’s the CE model (which I’m convinced means “cheap edition”), but it has the same engine as the $43,000 version did, and it has everything I need. And it’s still going strong at 125K miles.

So, Ricechex, I’d recommend that your friend look into one of these jewels. If he goes online and compares the amounts of leg-, shoulder-, and headroom, and the cargo capacity of the Sienna with that of the largest SUVs on the market (Expedition, Yukon, Suburban), he’s likely to find them very close (in some areas, the Sienna may even surpass them). But he’ll be able to get much better gas mileage, and greater driving comfort and handling, at a price in his range. Yes, I’ve had friends who ridiculed me for driving a “soccer mom vehicle”, but I’m a big girl, well able to handle it – especially when they complain about high gas credit card bills.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=paramount]Lot’s to choose from, but I guess I would stick with either a Camry/Accord or Mazda 6.[/quote]

I don’t know…at 6 foot 3 inches, Ricechex’s friend is a long drink of water. Is the headroom and/or legroom good in those models?

I’ve got a 2000 Mazda 626 (forerunner of the 6), and it’s still running strong at 160K miles (and she’s gone through 10 hard East Coast winters, bless her!). I’ve also had a 2004 Camry (V6) and a 2009 Camry (4 cylinder). Loved the 2004: roomy, handled like a dream, and decent gas mileage (around 26 mpg hwy). I was commuting from DC to Philly (240 mi R/T) back then, and it served me well for the 2 years I had her. No problems – just traded her in on something else (more on that later).

The 2009 Camry was NOT a good experience. Principal reason for buying it was to get a nice sedan with decent gas mileage. My 4-cyl Mazda got me 32 to 35 mpg (manual trans), so I figured the Camry would get me reasonably close. WRONG. I was getting no more than 22 mpg hwy, consistently. Turned out to be the most expensive car I ever bought since I felt compelled to trade it in on a Prius six weeks later. Love the Prius, but don’t know if it’s the car for Ricechex’s friend.

Which brings me to my recommendation, which is the car I traded my 2004 Camry V6 for: a Toyota Sienna minivan. Talk about a perfect vehicle! I bought it when I was doing some major redesign and construction projects on my last house, and you can’t believe the range and the amount of stuff I’ve managed to fit into that car. I can fit a max of 7 passengers (they make them big enough for 8), and still have a huge amount of room for luggage and gear. The last row of seats can fold into the floor, and the middle row of seats is removable; once, after I had done that, I loaded 39 bags of mulch (yes, large bags) into the van, and half of the cargo area was still empty. I’m really into antiques (the big primitive-style ones), and there’s never been a piece that I haven’t been able to transport.

But the big surprises were how it handled and its excellent gas mileage. I can tear around winding country roads, narrow mountain tunnels, and corkscrew highway exit ramps in that thing, sometimes at 75 mph, and it just clings to the road; the handling is as good as any car I’ve ever owned (seems to have just the right combination of aerodynamics and weight). And, in its first 4 years, or so, I was getting 27 mpg hwy. Best part? I walked out of the dealer with this brand-new Sienna for $20,400. It’s the CE model (which I’m convinced means “cheap edition”), but it has the same engine as the $43,000 version did, and it has everything I need. And it’s still going strong at 125K miles.

So, Ricechex, I’d recommend that your friend look into one of these jewels. If he goes online and compares the amounts of leg-, shoulder-, and headroom, and the cargo capacity of the Sienna with that of the largest SUVs on the market (Expedition, Yukon, Suburban), he’s likely to find them very close (in some areas, the Sienna may even surpass them). But he’ll be able to get much better gas mileage, and greater driving comfort and handling, at a price in his range. Yes, I’ve had friends who ridiculed me for driving a “soccer mom vehicle”, but I’m a big girl, well able to handle it – especially when they complain about high gas credit card bills.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=paramount]Lot’s to choose from, but I guess I would stick with either a Camry/Accord or Mazda 6.[/quote]

I don’t know…at 6 foot 3 inches, Ricechex’s friend is a long drink of water. Is the headroom and/or legroom good in those models?

I’ve got a 2000 Mazda 626 (forerunner of the 6), and it’s still running strong at 160K miles (and she’s gone through 10 hard East Coast winters, bless her!). I’ve also had a 2004 Camry (V6) and a 2009 Camry (4 cylinder). Loved the 2004: roomy, handled like a dream, and decent gas mileage (around 26 mpg hwy). I was commuting from DC to Philly (240 mi R/T) back then, and it served me well for the 2 years I had her. No problems – just traded her in on something else (more on that later).

The 2009 Camry was NOT a good experience. Principal reason for buying it was to get a nice sedan with decent gas mileage. My 4-cyl Mazda got me 32 to 35 mpg (manual trans), so I figured the Camry would get me reasonably close. WRONG. I was getting no more than 22 mpg hwy, consistently. Turned out to be the most expensive car I ever bought since I felt compelled to trade it in on a Prius six weeks later. Love the Prius, but don’t know if it’s the car for Ricechex’s friend.

Which brings me to my recommendation, which is the car I traded my 2004 Camry V6 for: a Toyota Sienna minivan. Talk about a perfect vehicle! I bought it when I was doing some major redesign and construction projects on my last house, and you can’t believe the range and the amount of stuff I’ve managed to fit into that car. I can fit a max of 7 passengers (they make them big enough for 8), and still have a huge amount of room for luggage and gear. The last row of seats can fold into the floor, and the middle row of seats is removable; once, after I had done that, I loaded 39 bags of mulch (yes, large bags) into the van, and half of the cargo area was still empty. I’m really into antiques (the big primitive-style ones), and there’s never been a piece that I haven’t been able to transport.

But the big surprises were how it handled and its excellent gas mileage. I can tear around winding country roads, narrow mountain tunnels, and corkscrew highway exit ramps in that thing, sometimes at 75 mph, and it just clings to the road; the handling is as good as any car I’ve ever owned (seems to have just the right combination of aerodynamics and weight). And, in its first 4 years, or so, I was getting 27 mpg hwy. Best part? I walked out of the dealer with this brand-new Sienna for $20,400. It’s the CE model (which I’m convinced means “cheap edition”), but it has the same engine as the $43,000 version did, and it has everything I need. And it’s still going strong at 125K miles.

So, Ricechex, I’d recommend that your friend look into one of these jewels. If he goes online and compares the amounts of leg-, shoulder-, and headroom, and the cargo capacity of the Sienna with that of the largest SUVs on the market (Expedition, Yukon, Suburban), he’s likely to find them very close (in some areas, the Sienna may even surpass them). But he’ll be able to get much better gas mileage, and greater driving comfort and handling, at a price in his range. Yes, I’ve had friends who ridiculed me for driving a “soccer mom vehicle”, but I’m a big girl, well able to handle it – especially when they complain about high gas credit card bills.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=briansd1][quote=pabloesqobar]
My ex-girlfriend has been on Unemployment for 2 years. I’d be willing to bet that the 5 year limit for Welfare is likewise negotiable, depending on the circumstances. [/quote]

That’s an exception because of the recession. Congress has extended unemployment benefits several times. It’s a quick way to get the money into the economy. The bailouts have many beneficiaries who don’t really deserve bailouts.

In normal times, unemployment is limited to 6 months.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/18/AR2010061800211.html

The 5 year lifetime on welfare is non-negotiable.

Fraud is when people get benefits that they are not entitled to through fraud. Your girlfriend is entitled to the benefits since she’s unemployed.

If we don’t like to provide benefits to people who are unemployed or have little money and assets then that’s a policy question, not a fraud or criminal question.

So let’s not accuse people of fraud who do not commit fraud. Laziness is not a crime.

As far as Medicaid is concerned, the larger problem is not poor people who use the benefits. It’s the middle-class folks who have assets but give away their assets then go on the public dole near their sunset years.

It’s also doctors who abuse the system and order unnecessary treatment, which is fraud when done knowingly.

If welfare is so good, then anyone can put himself in the position to receive benefits. It’s still not fraud.[/quote]

Sorry, Brian, I don’t agree with you on this one. Although I believe in helping those of our citizenry who are genuinely in need, there’s no question that we’ve become an entitled society through the largesse of our government, fueled by vote-hungry politicians of all stripes.

It IS fraud if you are not complying 100 percent with the terms and conditions of any of these programs. You may be entitled to unemployment because you are without a job, but you are legally bound to search for work on a regular basis, keep a written record of said search, and accept an offer of employment even if it’s not your dream job, or (in some cases) even in your regular line of work. And while it is true that unemployment insurance is drawn from a fund that is composed of obligatory payments from employers in the form of a tax on each employee they hire, the funds are rapidly running dry as a result of the huge number of layoffs. The feds are kicking in on the shortfall currently, but, given the situation, the states are going to have to raise the unemployment tax rate, and that doesn’t bode well for future jobs growth.

The examples you give are certainly accurate, but “poor people” are capable of committing fraud too. When a welfare/food stamps recipient is allowing her employed boyfriend to live with her and her kids, it’s fraud. When you’ve gone through a government-funded education program while receiving additional help in the form of cash assistance, food stamps, and childcare, and then quit your job after a month because your paycheck isn’t high enough, it’s fraud. None of these programs permits “laziness” in its eligibility guidelines. The real issue is that it’s both difficult, and politically risky, to measure laziness, so it becomes a non-issue in the administration of these programs.

There is a genuine need for these programs. But they were not designed to be permanent income providers for citizens of the United States. And, despite the “rules”, it’s readily apparent that, for a great number of people, they’ve become just that.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=briansd1][quote=pabloesqobar]
My ex-girlfriend has been on Unemployment for 2 years. I’d be willing to bet that the 5 year limit for Welfare is likewise negotiable, depending on the circumstances. [/quote]

That’s an exception because of the recession. Congress has extended unemployment benefits several times. It’s a quick way to get the money into the economy. The bailouts have many beneficiaries who don’t really deserve bailouts.

In normal times, unemployment is limited to 6 months.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/18/AR2010061800211.html

The 5 year lifetime on welfare is non-negotiable.

Fraud is when people get benefits that they are not entitled to through fraud. Your girlfriend is entitled to the benefits since she’s unemployed.

If we don’t like to provide benefits to people who are unemployed or have little money and assets then that’s a policy question, not a fraud or criminal question.

So let’s not accuse people of fraud who do not commit fraud. Laziness is not a crime.

As far as Medicaid is concerned, the larger problem is not poor people who use the benefits. It’s the middle-class folks who have assets but give away their assets then go on the public dole near their sunset years.

It’s also doctors who abuse the system and order unnecessary treatment, which is fraud when done knowingly.

If welfare is so good, then anyone can put himself in the position to receive benefits. It’s still not fraud.[/quote]

Sorry, Brian, I don’t agree with you on this one. Although I believe in helping those of our citizenry who are genuinely in need, there’s no question that we’ve become an entitled society through the largesse of our government, fueled by vote-hungry politicians of all stripes.

It IS fraud if you are not complying 100 percent with the terms and conditions of any of these programs. You may be entitled to unemployment because you are without a job, but you are legally bound to search for work on a regular basis, keep a written record of said search, and accept an offer of employment even if it’s not your dream job, or (in some cases) even in your regular line of work. And while it is true that unemployment insurance is drawn from a fund that is composed of obligatory payments from employers in the form of a tax on each employee they hire, the funds are rapidly running dry as a result of the huge number of layoffs. The feds are kicking in on the shortfall currently, but, given the situation, the states are going to have to raise the unemployment tax rate, and that doesn’t bode well for future jobs growth.

The examples you give are certainly accurate, but “poor people” are capable of committing fraud too. When a welfare/food stamps recipient is allowing her employed boyfriend to live with her and her kids, it’s fraud. When you’ve gone through a government-funded education program while receiving additional help in the form of cash assistance, food stamps, and childcare, and then quit your job after a month because your paycheck isn’t high enough, it’s fraud. None of these programs permits “laziness” in its eligibility guidelines. The real issue is that it’s both difficult, and politically risky, to measure laziness, so it becomes a non-issue in the administration of these programs.

There is a genuine need for these programs. But they were not designed to be permanent income providers for citizens of the United States. And, despite the “rules”, it’s readily apparent that, for a great number of people, they’ve become just that.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=briansd1][quote=pabloesqobar]
My ex-girlfriend has been on Unemployment for 2 years. I’d be willing to bet that the 5 year limit for Welfare is likewise negotiable, depending on the circumstances. [/quote]

That’s an exception because of the recession. Congress has extended unemployment benefits several times. It’s a quick way to get the money into the economy. The bailouts have many beneficiaries who don’t really deserve bailouts.

In normal times, unemployment is limited to 6 months.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/18/AR2010061800211.html

The 5 year lifetime on welfare is non-negotiable.

Fraud is when people get benefits that they are not entitled to through fraud. Your girlfriend is entitled to the benefits since she’s unemployed.

If we don’t like to provide benefits to people who are unemployed or have little money and assets then that’s a policy question, not a fraud or criminal question.

So let’s not accuse people of fraud who do not commit fraud. Laziness is not a crime.

As far as Medicaid is concerned, the larger problem is not poor people who use the benefits. It’s the middle-class folks who have assets but give away their assets then go on the public dole near their sunset years.

It’s also doctors who abuse the system and order unnecessary treatment, which is fraud when done knowingly.

If welfare is so good, then anyone can put himself in the position to receive benefits. It’s still not fraud.[/quote]

Sorry, Brian, I don’t agree with you on this one. Although I believe in helping those of our citizenry who are genuinely in need, there’s no question that we’ve become an entitled society through the largesse of our government, fueled by vote-hungry politicians of all stripes.

It IS fraud if you are not complying 100 percent with the terms and conditions of any of these programs. You may be entitled to unemployment because you are without a job, but you are legally bound to search for work on a regular basis, keep a written record of said search, and accept an offer of employment even if it’s not your dream job, or (in some cases) even in your regular line of work. And while it is true that unemployment insurance is drawn from a fund that is composed of obligatory payments from employers in the form of a tax on each employee they hire, the funds are rapidly running dry as a result of the huge number of layoffs. The feds are kicking in on the shortfall currently, but, given the situation, the states are going to have to raise the unemployment tax rate, and that doesn’t bode well for future jobs growth.

The examples you give are certainly accurate, but “poor people” are capable of committing fraud too. When a welfare/food stamps recipient is allowing her employed boyfriend to live with her and her kids, it’s fraud. When you’ve gone through a government-funded education program while receiving additional help in the form of cash assistance, food stamps, and childcare, and then quit your job after a month because your paycheck isn’t high enough, it’s fraud. None of these programs permits “laziness” in its eligibility guidelines. The real issue is that it’s both difficult, and politically risky, to measure laziness, so it becomes a non-issue in the administration of these programs.

There is a genuine need for these programs. But they were not designed to be permanent income providers for citizens of the United States. And, despite the “rules”, it’s readily apparent that, for a great number of people, they’ve become just that.

[Author]

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