[DWCAP]

I dont know about the whole renter=owner thing, atleast in theory you are building equity when paying a morgage, you never will as a renter. It is kinda like paying the max deductions on your paychecks (as most americans do) and then getting a rebate at the end of the year. The Gov. is just giving you your own money, making it a form of inforced savings. If you own your home you pay more than rent (normally) but you get that money back in equity at the end of the loan. Plus you can paint and decorate as you wish. YAH!
My real problem with all this is that inflation is already well outa the comfort zone, so the Fed should be raising rates as it was at the beginning of last year. Problem is the economy cant survive raising rates, so we are going in the opposite direction. Housing is cured, its ill’s not spreading to the greater economy. Resets are not bad, as many have noted prime +2% = ~6%. Not bad. People stop defaulting and all is well.
Problem is that then the fed has to do something about inflation eventually. So rates go back up. Suddenly we are right back where we were as people cant afford the increases in their morgages as we fight inflation. Sure, people make more, but inflation is a bitch and is eating any of those increases in wages. People make more now than they did in 2004, but it isnt helping much is it? Outsourcing and increased competion keep a lid on wages, meaning that people are actually getting behind and savings are not what they once were. We become addicted to low rates and tolerant of increased inflation. This cycle holds for a few years, and eventually breaks as it always does. Instead of suffering our pain over 2007-2010 and getting on with our lives, we suffer the same pain, just spread out over 2007-2017 and over the entire population, renters and owners alike. To those born before 1977 (ie 30+) they already have alot of skin in the game and this is preferable. To the younger generations, with little to loose, this sucks.

Or maybe Housing is saved as thousands of Pigg’s and their 500000/yr salaries with 849 credit rush the multigenerational oppertunity of low interest rates and decreasing housing prices becoming landlords. Retiring on fat rents coming in from houses that need no repair, no upkeep, and are rented 365.26 days a year with 5-10% rent increases every year.

[DWCAP]

I dont know about the whole renter=owner thing, atleast in theory you are building equity when paying a morgage, you never will as a renter. It is kinda like paying the max deductions on your paychecks (as most americans do) and then getting a rebate at the end of the year. The Gov. is just giving you your own money, making it a form of inforced savings. If you own your home you pay more than rent (normally) but you get that money back in equity at the end of the loan. Plus you can paint and decorate as you wish. YAH!
My real problem with all this is that inflation is already well outa the comfort zone, so the Fed should be raising rates as it was at the beginning of last year. Problem is the economy cant survive raising rates, so we are going in the opposite direction. Housing is cured, its ill’s not spreading to the greater economy. Resets are not bad, as many have noted prime +2% = ~6%. Not bad. People stop defaulting and all is well.
Problem is that then the fed has to do something about inflation eventually. So rates go back up. Suddenly we are right back where we were as people cant afford the increases in their morgages as we fight inflation. Sure, people make more, but inflation is a bitch and is eating any of those increases in wages. People make more now than they did in 2004, but it isnt helping much is it? Outsourcing and increased competion keep a lid on wages, meaning that people are actually getting behind and savings are not what they once were. We become addicted to low rates and tolerant of increased inflation. This cycle holds for a few years, and eventually breaks as it always does. Instead of suffering our pain over 2007-2010 and getting on with our lives, we suffer the same pain, just spread out over 2007-2017 and over the entire population, renters and owners alike. To those born before 1977 (ie 30+) they already have alot of skin in the game and this is preferable. To the younger generations, with little to loose, this sucks.

Or maybe Housing is saved as thousands of Pigg’s and their 500000/yr salaries with 849 credit rush the multigenerational oppertunity of low interest rates and decreasing housing prices becoming landlords. Retiring on fat rents coming in from houses that need no repair, no upkeep, and are rented 365.26 days a year with 5-10% rent increases every year.

[DWCAP]

I dont know about the whole renter=owner thing, atleast in theory you are building equity when paying a morgage, you never will as a renter. It is kinda like paying the max deductions on your paychecks (as most americans do) and then getting a rebate at the end of the year. The Gov. is just giving you your own money, making it a form of inforced savings. If you own your home you pay more than rent (normally) but you get that money back in equity at the end of the loan. Plus you can paint and decorate as you wish. YAH!
My real problem with all this is that inflation is already well outa the comfort zone, so the Fed should be raising rates as it was at the beginning of last year. Problem is the economy cant survive raising rates, so we are going in the opposite direction. Housing is cured, its ill’s not spreading to the greater economy. Resets are not bad, as many have noted prime +2% = ~6%. Not bad. People stop defaulting and all is well.
Problem is that then the fed has to do something about inflation eventually. So rates go back up. Suddenly we are right back where we were as people cant afford the increases in their morgages as we fight inflation. Sure, people make more, but inflation is a bitch and is eating any of those increases in wages. People make more now than they did in 2004, but it isnt helping much is it? Outsourcing and increased competion keep a lid on wages, meaning that people are actually getting behind and savings are not what they once were. We become addicted to low rates and tolerant of increased inflation. This cycle holds for a few years, and eventually breaks as it always does. Instead of suffering our pain over 2007-2010 and getting on with our lives, we suffer the same pain, just spread out over 2007-2017 and over the entire population, renters and owners alike. To those born before 1977 (ie 30+) they already have alot of skin in the game and this is preferable. To the younger generations, with little to loose, this sucks.

Or maybe Housing is saved as thousands of Pigg’s and their 500000/yr salaries with 849 credit rush the multigenerational oppertunity of low interest rates and decreasing housing prices becoming landlords. Retiring on fat rents coming in from houses that need no repair, no upkeep, and are rented 365.26 days a year with 5-10% rent increases every year.

[DWCAP]

I dont know about the whole renter=owner thing, atleast in theory you are building equity when paying a morgage, you never will as a renter. It is kinda like paying the max deductions on your paychecks (as most americans do) and then getting a rebate at the end of the year. The Gov. is just giving you your own money, making it a form of inforced savings. If you own your home you pay more than rent (normally) but you get that money back in equity at the end of the loan. Plus you can paint and decorate as you wish. YAH!
My real problem with all this is that inflation is already well outa the comfort zone, so the Fed should be raising rates as it was at the beginning of last year. Problem is the economy cant survive raising rates, so we are going in the opposite direction. Housing is cured, its ill’s not spreading to the greater economy. Resets are not bad, as many have noted prime +2% = ~6%. Not bad. People stop defaulting and all is well.
Problem is that then the fed has to do something about inflation eventually. So rates go back up. Suddenly we are right back where we were as people cant afford the increases in their morgages as we fight inflation. Sure, people make more, but inflation is a bitch and is eating any of those increases in wages. People make more now than they did in 2004, but it isnt helping much is it? Outsourcing and increased competion keep a lid on wages, meaning that people are actually getting behind and savings are not what they once were. We become addicted to low rates and tolerant of increased inflation. This cycle holds for a few years, and eventually breaks as it always does. Instead of suffering our pain over 2007-2010 and getting on with our lives, we suffer the same pain, just spread out over 2007-2017 and over the entire population, renters and owners alike. To those born before 1977 (ie 30+) they already have alot of skin in the game and this is preferable. To the younger generations, with little to loose, this sucks.

Or maybe Housing is saved as thousands of Pigg’s and their 500000/yr salaries with 849 credit rush the multigenerational oppertunity of low interest rates and decreasing housing prices becoming landlords. Retiring on fat rents coming in from houses that need no repair, no upkeep, and are rented 365.26 days a year with 5-10% rent increases every year.

[DWCAP]

I dont know about the whole renter=owner thing, atleast in theory you are building equity when paying a morgage, you never will as a renter. It is kinda like paying the max deductions on your paychecks (as most americans do) and then getting a rebate at the end of the year. The Gov. is just giving you your own money, making it a form of inforced savings. If you own your home you pay more than rent (normally) but you get that money back in equity at the end of the loan. Plus you can paint and decorate as you wish. YAH!
My real problem with all this is that inflation is already well outa the comfort zone, so the Fed should be raising rates as it was at the beginning of last year. Problem is the economy cant survive raising rates, so we are going in the opposite direction. Housing is cured, its ill’s not spreading to the greater economy. Resets are not bad, as many have noted prime +2% = ~6%. Not bad. People stop defaulting and all is well.
Problem is that then the fed has to do something about inflation eventually. So rates go back up. Suddenly we are right back where we were as people cant afford the increases in their morgages as we fight inflation. Sure, people make more, but inflation is a bitch and is eating any of those increases in wages. People make more now than they did in 2004, but it isnt helping much is it? Outsourcing and increased competion keep a lid on wages, meaning that people are actually getting behind and savings are not what they once were. We become addicted to low rates and tolerant of increased inflation. This cycle holds for a few years, and eventually breaks as it always does. Instead of suffering our pain over 2007-2010 and getting on with our lives, we suffer the same pain, just spread out over 2007-2017 and over the entire population, renters and owners alike. To those born before 1977 (ie 30+) they already have alot of skin in the game and this is preferable. To the younger generations, with little to loose, this sucks.

Or maybe Housing is saved as thousands of Pigg’s and their 500000/yr salaries with 849 credit rush the multigenerational oppertunity of low interest rates and decreasing housing prices becoming landlords. Retiring on fat rents coming in from houses that need no repair, no upkeep, and are rented 365.26 days a year with 5-10% rent increases every year.

[DWCAP]

Even though this thread got alittle off track, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

WHAT THE HELL is this crap? The interviewer is the most bearish person in the mix? She has to ask questions so that these perma bulls can try to refute every argument that would reasonably tell someone not to buy. The outa work striking writers musta written this for the NAR, too perfect. I love how one of them talks about how he is looking in LA and mentions CA once or twice in the same breath as appreciation and opertunity without actually saying that these are good markets. If you were not actually listening to what these ass%#@&’s are saying, which most people are not, you might actually think that you should follow the “smart money” and buy now before you get priced out. Damnit where are all the scumbag lawyers who will sue for anything? They should sue these guys for fraud, misleading people into loosing everything so they can pay for the next million dollar car or boat or………

Someday people are gonna realize that this kinda BS is killing them and stop listening. I realize that economists cant really tell the truth because then itll come true and right now we are trying to avoid the truth because there isnt anything good in it. Still, trust is something that can’t be bought, I wonder how long till these carpetbagger guys cant sell this junk. Wake up America, extreamly high inventory, crashing morgage rates, declining home values year over year for the first time in 80 years and an economy that keeps talking about recession, and not that 7 month hopscotch in 2001, isnt a time to buy. It is a time to guard your capital, suck up to your boss, and reduce your dept. But hey, these guy’s were so obviously right, with the 3-6% appreciation we were seeing at the end of 2007. Oh opps, not suppose to talk about that…..

[DWCAP]

Even though this thread got alittle off track, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

WHAT THE HELL is this crap? The interviewer is the most bearish person in the mix? She has to ask questions so that these perma bulls can try to refute every argument that would reasonably tell someone not to buy. The outa work striking writers musta written this for the NAR, too perfect. I love how one of them talks about how he is looking in LA and mentions CA once or twice in the same breath as appreciation and opertunity without actually saying that these are good markets. If you were not actually listening to what these ass%#@&’s are saying, which most people are not, you might actually think that you should follow the “smart money” and buy now before you get priced out. Damnit where are all the scumbag lawyers who will sue for anything? They should sue these guys for fraud, misleading people into loosing everything so they can pay for the next million dollar car or boat or………

Someday people are gonna realize that this kinda BS is killing them and stop listening. I realize that economists cant really tell the truth because then itll come true and right now we are trying to avoid the truth because there isnt anything good in it. Still, trust is something that can’t be bought, I wonder how long till these carpetbagger guys cant sell this junk. Wake up America, extreamly high inventory, crashing morgage rates, declining home values year over year for the first time in 80 years and an economy that keeps talking about recession, and not that 7 month hopscotch in 2001, isnt a time to buy. It is a time to guard your capital, suck up to your boss, and reduce your dept. But hey, these guy’s were so obviously right, with the 3-6% appreciation we were seeing at the end of 2007. Oh opps, not suppose to talk about that…..

[DWCAP]

Even though this thread got alittle off track, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

WHAT THE HELL is this crap? The interviewer is the most bearish person in the mix? She has to ask questions so that these perma bulls can try to refute every argument that would reasonably tell someone not to buy. The outa work striking writers musta written this for the NAR, too perfect. I love how one of them talks about how he is looking in LA and mentions CA once or twice in the same breath as appreciation and opertunity without actually saying that these are good markets. If you were not actually listening to what these ass%#@&’s are saying, which most people are not, you might actually think that you should follow the “smart money” and buy now before you get priced out. Damnit where are all the scumbag lawyers who will sue for anything? They should sue these guys for fraud, misleading people into loosing everything so they can pay for the next million dollar car or boat or………

Someday people are gonna realize that this kinda BS is killing them and stop listening. I realize that economists cant really tell the truth because then itll come true and right now we are trying to avoid the truth because there isnt anything good in it. Still, trust is something that can’t be bought, I wonder how long till these carpetbagger guys cant sell this junk. Wake up America, extreamly high inventory, crashing morgage rates, declining home values year over year for the first time in 80 years and an economy that keeps talking about recession, and not that 7 month hopscotch in 2001, isnt a time to buy. It is a time to guard your capital, suck up to your boss, and reduce your dept. But hey, these guy’s were so obviously right, with the 3-6% appreciation we were seeing at the end of 2007. Oh opps, not suppose to talk about that…..

[DWCAP]

Even though this thread got alittle off track, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

WHAT THE HELL is this crap? The interviewer is the most bearish person in the mix? She has to ask questions so that these perma bulls can try to refute every argument that would reasonably tell someone not to buy. The outa work striking writers musta written this for the NAR, too perfect. I love how one of them talks about how he is looking in LA and mentions CA once or twice in the same breath as appreciation and opertunity without actually saying that these are good markets. If you were not actually listening to what these ass%#@&’s are saying, which most people are not, you might actually think that you should follow the “smart money” and buy now before you get priced out. Damnit where are all the scumbag lawyers who will sue for anything? They should sue these guys for fraud, misleading people into loosing everything so they can pay for the next million dollar car or boat or………

Someday people are gonna realize that this kinda BS is killing them and stop listening. I realize that economists cant really tell the truth because then itll come true and right now we are trying to avoid the truth because there isnt anything good in it. Still, trust is something that can’t be bought, I wonder how long till these carpetbagger guys cant sell this junk. Wake up America, extreamly high inventory, crashing morgage rates, declining home values year over year for the first time in 80 years and an economy that keeps talking about recession, and not that 7 month hopscotch in 2001, isnt a time to buy. It is a time to guard your capital, suck up to your boss, and reduce your dept. But hey, these guy’s were so obviously right, with the 3-6% appreciation we were seeing at the end of 2007. Oh opps, not suppose to talk about that…..

[DWCAP]

Even though this thread got alittle off track, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

WHAT THE HELL is this crap? The interviewer is the most bearish person in the mix? She has to ask questions so that these perma bulls can try to refute every argument that would reasonably tell someone not to buy. The outa work striking writers musta written this for the NAR, too perfect. I love how one of them talks about how he is looking in LA and mentions CA once or twice in the same breath as appreciation and opertunity without actually saying that these are good markets. If you were not actually listening to what these ass%#@&’s are saying, which most people are not, you might actually think that you should follow the “smart money” and buy now before you get priced out. Damnit where are all the scumbag lawyers who will sue for anything? They should sue these guys for fraud, misleading people into loosing everything so they can pay for the next million dollar car or boat or………

Someday people are gonna realize that this kinda BS is killing them and stop listening. I realize that economists cant really tell the truth because then itll come true and right now we are trying to avoid the truth because there isnt anything good in it. Still, trust is something that can’t be bought, I wonder how long till these carpetbagger guys cant sell this junk. Wake up America, extreamly high inventory, crashing morgage rates, declining home values year over year for the first time in 80 years and an economy that keeps talking about recession, and not that 7 month hopscotch in 2001, isnt a time to buy. It is a time to guard your capital, suck up to your boss, and reduce your dept. But hey, these guy’s were so obviously right, with the 3-6% appreciation we were seeing at the end of 2007. Oh opps, not suppose to talk about that…..

[DWCAP]

esmith,
I dont mean to seem like I am disagreing with you all the time. You just seem to have a more bullish sentement on rents than I do. I agree that rents will create a floor underhousing. I just think that using the highest rent in the area to justify pricing isnt gonna pan out. Using your same numbers, but tying to the lower range of the rent scale I get a purchase price of $245000. Requiring a reduction of 25% on current 330000 listings.

Downpayment: 12500
Morgage: 1350
Prop Tax: 245
HOA: 325
Tax deduct: -427
dont forget 5% down brings morgage insurance:
morg. ins. 80

Total: 2000/month.
-427 tax deduction
Cost: 1575/month

This is right in the middle of the range of rents right now and doesnt include upkeep costs, homeowners insurance, any managment or advertising fees, or rent loss due to turnover. The cost of capital on 12000 isnt much, so forget that.

Plus the argument that rents rise, so long term it is a good investment is a hard sell on me. Sure over 30 years it will turn cash positive, but that still doesnt make it a good investment. Most any non retarded or high risk investment over 30 years will make a return. Plus in the time frame we are talking about, 1-5 years, who says rents go up?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/realestate/bal-renters0121,0,4619944.story?ref=patrick.net

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/16/real_estate/rents_flat/index.htm?ref=patrick.net

[DWCAP]

esmith,
I dont mean to seem like I am disagreing with you all the time. You just seem to have a more bullish sentement on rents than I do. I agree that rents will create a floor underhousing. I just think that using the highest rent in the area to justify pricing isnt gonna pan out. Using your same numbers, but tying to the lower range of the rent scale I get a purchase price of $245000. Requiring a reduction of 25% on current 330000 listings.

Downpayment: 12500
Morgage: 1350
Prop Tax: 245
HOA: 325
Tax deduct: -427
dont forget 5% down brings morgage insurance:
morg. ins. 80

Total: 2000/month.
-427 tax deduction
Cost: 1575/month

This is right in the middle of the range of rents right now and doesnt include upkeep costs, homeowners insurance, any managment or advertising fees, or rent loss due to turnover. The cost of capital on 12000 isnt much, so forget that.

Plus the argument that rents rise, so long term it is a good investment is a hard sell on me. Sure over 30 years it will turn cash positive, but that still doesnt make it a good investment. Most any non retarded or high risk investment over 30 years will make a return. Plus in the time frame we are talking about, 1-5 years, who says rents go up?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/realestate/bal-renters0121,0,4619944.story?ref=patrick.net

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/16/real_estate/rents_flat/index.htm?ref=patrick.net

[DWCAP]

esmith,
I dont mean to seem like I am disagreing with you all the time. You just seem to have a more bullish sentement on rents than I do. I agree that rents will create a floor underhousing. I just think that using the highest rent in the area to justify pricing isnt gonna pan out. Using your same numbers, but tying to the lower range of the rent scale I get a purchase price of $245000. Requiring a reduction of 25% on current 330000 listings.

Downpayment: 12500
Morgage: 1350
Prop Tax: 245
HOA: 325
Tax deduct: -427
dont forget 5% down brings morgage insurance:
morg. ins. 80

Total: 2000/month.
-427 tax deduction
Cost: 1575/month

This is right in the middle of the range of rents right now and doesnt include upkeep costs, homeowners insurance, any managment or advertising fees, or rent loss due to turnover. The cost of capital on 12000 isnt much, so forget that.

Plus the argument that rents rise, so long term it is a good investment is a hard sell on me. Sure over 30 years it will turn cash positive, but that still doesnt make it a good investment. Most any non retarded or high risk investment over 30 years will make a return. Plus in the time frame we are talking about, 1-5 years, who says rents go up?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/realestate/bal-renters0121,0,4619944.story?ref=patrick.net

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/16/real_estate/rents_flat/index.htm?ref=patrick.net

[DWCAP]

esmith,
I dont mean to seem like I am disagreing with you all the time. You just seem to have a more bullish sentement on rents than I do. I agree that rents will create a floor underhousing. I just think that using the highest rent in the area to justify pricing isnt gonna pan out. Using your same numbers, but tying to the lower range of the rent scale I get a purchase price of $245000. Requiring a reduction of 25% on current 330000 listings.

Downpayment: 12500
Morgage: 1350
Prop Tax: 245
HOA: 325
Tax deduct: -427
dont forget 5% down brings morgage insurance:
morg. ins. 80

Total: 2000/month.
-427 tax deduction
Cost: 1575/month

This is right in the middle of the range of rents right now and doesnt include upkeep costs, homeowners insurance, any managment or advertising fees, or rent loss due to turnover. The cost of capital on 12000 isnt much, so forget that.

Plus the argument that rents rise, so long term it is a good investment is a hard sell on me. Sure over 30 years it will turn cash positive, but that still doesnt make it a good investment. Most any non retarded or high risk investment over 30 years will make a return. Plus in the time frame we are talking about, 1-5 years, who says rents go up?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/realestate/bal-renters0121,0,4619944.story?ref=patrick.net

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/16/real_estate/rents_flat/index.htm?ref=patrick.net

[DWCAP]

esmith,
I dont mean to seem like I am disagreing with you all the time. You just seem to have a more bullish sentement on rents than I do. I agree that rents will create a floor underhousing. I just think that using the highest rent in the area to justify pricing isnt gonna pan out. Using your same numbers, but tying to the lower range of the rent scale I get a purchase price of $245000. Requiring a reduction of 25% on current 330000 listings.

Downpayment: 12500
Morgage: 1350
Prop Tax: 245
HOA: 325
Tax deduct: -427
dont forget 5% down brings morgage insurance:
morg. ins. 80

Total: 2000/month.
-427 tax deduction
Cost: 1575/month

This is right in the middle of the range of rents right now and doesnt include upkeep costs, homeowners insurance, any managment or advertising fees, or rent loss due to turnover. The cost of capital on 12000 isnt much, so forget that.

Plus the argument that rents rise, so long term it is a good investment is a hard sell on me. Sure over 30 years it will turn cash positive, but that still doesnt make it a good investment. Most any non retarded or high risk investment over 30 years will make a return. Plus in the time frame we are talking about, 1-5 years, who says rents go up?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/realestate/bal-renters0121,0,4619944.story?ref=patrick.net

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/16/real_estate/rents_flat/index.htm?ref=patrick.net

[Author]

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