[DWCAP]

[quote=ucsf_med]
Physicians aren’t the only ones complicit in the quest to stop death at all costs, the family at the bedside and ever present lawyer-threat are drivers pushing the physician to do just a little more.

The article citing costs spent in the last several months of life is quite telling. However, it is in retrospect as you don’t know it is someone’s last few months of life until they actually die. It’s hard to cut off the last month of spending when you don’t know when the last month of life is.[/quote]

Doc’s are most certainly not the only ones involved here. I would go so far as to say that in my experience they are usually the least responsible for the issue at hand. It is their job to dispense medical care and advice on that care. They (usually) are unsurpassed at this point in history compared to any other when it comes to dispensing medical care. I feel that the breakdown comes when they have to dispense advice about that care. In my ,self admitted little experience( I have 4 friends in med school or docs and a few family members who have died), the problem is that patients are looking for a cure and doctors are prescribing a treatment. We as a society need to realize the difference and learn how to judge the value of a short term treatment versus its cost.

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucsf_med]
Physicians aren’t the only ones complicit in the quest to stop death at all costs, the family at the bedside and ever present lawyer-threat are drivers pushing the physician to do just a little more.

The article citing costs spent in the last several months of life is quite telling. However, it is in retrospect as you don’t know it is someone’s last few months of life until they actually die. It’s hard to cut off the last month of spending when you don’t know when the last month of life is.[/quote]

Doc’s are most certainly not the only ones involved here. I would go so far as to say that in my experience they are usually the least responsible for the issue at hand. It is their job to dispense medical care and advice on that care. They (usually) are unsurpassed at this point in history compared to any other when it comes to dispensing medical care. I feel that the breakdown comes when they have to dispense advice about that care. In my ,self admitted little experience( I have 4 friends in med school or docs and a few family members who have died), the problem is that patients are looking for a cure and doctors are prescribing a treatment. We as a society need to realize the difference and learn how to judge the value of a short term treatment versus its cost.

[DWCAP]

[quote=patientrenter]
On one hand, I don’t think any human should be denied life saving healthcare just because they can’t pay.

On the other hand, there are only so many resources to go around, so we do need limitations…..[/quote]

“In its submission to the Romanow commission on the future of health care, the institute said that 30 to 50 per cent of total lifetime health care expenditures occur in the last six months of life.”
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LVZ/is_8_17/ai_84895863/

“Total health care costs in the United States (U.S.) reached $989 billion in 1995 and now exceed $1 trillion, 14% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) (1). Of this total, a disproportionate share is attributable to the care of elderly patients shortly before their deaths. According to Lubitz and Prihoda (2) and Lubitz and Riley (3), 6% of Medicare recipients 65 yr of age and older who died in 1978 and 1988 accounted for 28% of all costs of the Medicare program. In the same two years, 77% of the Medicare decedents’ expenditures occurred in the last year of life, 52% of them in the last 2 mo, and 40% in the last month. Inpatient expenses accounted for over 70% of the decedents’ total costs.”
http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/full/165/6/750

There are alot of problems with health care. One of the biggest is just that we as people will do anything to avoid death. Usually assisted by doctors who have taken oaths and years of training to stop death at all costs.

What we end up with is a situtation where modern tech and medicine has outgrown our ethos about medicine. Decisions about what should be done are made by two groups, doctors who have made an oath to maximize life, and family members who are often in shock and pain and looking to avoid what is coming.
This same care is paid for by neither of these groups.

We need to find a better way of dying. Spending tens to hundreds of thousands for maybe days needs to change.

[DWCAP]

[quote=patientrenter]
On one hand, I don’t think any human should be denied life saving healthcare just because they can’t pay.

On the other hand, there are only so many resources to go around, so we do need limitations…..[/quote]

“In its submission to the Romanow commission on the future of health care, the institute said that 30 to 50 per cent of total lifetime health care expenditures occur in the last six months of life.”
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LVZ/is_8_17/ai_84895863/

“Total health care costs in the United States (U.S.) reached $989 billion in 1995 and now exceed $1 trillion, 14% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) (1). Of this total, a disproportionate share is attributable to the care of elderly patients shortly before their deaths. According to Lubitz and Prihoda (2) and Lubitz and Riley (3), 6% of Medicare recipients 65 yr of age and older who died in 1978 and 1988 accounted for 28% of all costs of the Medicare program. In the same two years, 77% of the Medicare decedents’ expenditures occurred in the last year of life, 52% of them in the last 2 mo, and 40% in the last month. Inpatient expenses accounted for over 70% of the decedents’ total costs.”
http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/full/165/6/750

There are alot of problems with health care. One of the biggest is just that we as people will do anything to avoid death. Usually assisted by doctors who have taken oaths and years of training to stop death at all costs.

What we end up with is a situtation where modern tech and medicine has outgrown our ethos about medicine. Decisions about what should be done are made by two groups, doctors who have made an oath to maximize life, and family members who are often in shock and pain and looking to avoid what is coming.
This same care is paid for by neither of these groups.

We need to find a better way of dying. Spending tens to hundreds of thousands for maybe days needs to change.

[DWCAP]

[quote=patientrenter]
On one hand, I don’t think any human should be denied life saving healthcare just because they can’t pay.

On the other hand, there are only so many resources to go around, so we do need limitations…..[/quote]

“In its submission to the Romanow commission on the future of health care, the institute said that 30 to 50 per cent of total lifetime health care expenditures occur in the last six months of life.”
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LVZ/is_8_17/ai_84895863/

“Total health care costs in the United States (U.S.) reached $989 billion in 1995 and now exceed $1 trillion, 14% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) (1). Of this total, a disproportionate share is attributable to the care of elderly patients shortly before their deaths. According to Lubitz and Prihoda (2) and Lubitz and Riley (3), 6% of Medicare recipients 65 yr of age and older who died in 1978 and 1988 accounted for 28% of all costs of the Medicare program. In the same two years, 77% of the Medicare decedents’ expenditures occurred in the last year of life, 52% of them in the last 2 mo, and 40% in the last month. Inpatient expenses accounted for over 70% of the decedents’ total costs.”
http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/full/165/6/750

There are alot of problems with health care. One of the biggest is just that we as people will do anything to avoid death. Usually assisted by doctors who have taken oaths and years of training to stop death at all costs.

What we end up with is a situtation where modern tech and medicine has outgrown our ethos about medicine. Decisions about what should be done are made by two groups, doctors who have made an oath to maximize life, and family members who are often in shock and pain and looking to avoid what is coming.
This same care is paid for by neither of these groups.

We need to find a better way of dying. Spending tens to hundreds of thousands for maybe days needs to change.

[DWCAP]

[quote=patientrenter]
On one hand, I don’t think any human should be denied life saving healthcare just because they can’t pay.

On the other hand, there are only so many resources to go around, so we do need limitations…..[/quote]

“In its submission to the Romanow commission on the future of health care, the institute said that 30 to 50 per cent of total lifetime health care expenditures occur in the last six months of life.”
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LVZ/is_8_17/ai_84895863/

“Total health care costs in the United States (U.S.) reached $989 billion in 1995 and now exceed $1 trillion, 14% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) (1). Of this total, a disproportionate share is attributable to the care of elderly patients shortly before their deaths. According to Lubitz and Prihoda (2) and Lubitz and Riley (3), 6% of Medicare recipients 65 yr of age and older who died in 1978 and 1988 accounted for 28% of all costs of the Medicare program. In the same two years, 77% of the Medicare decedents’ expenditures occurred in the last year of life, 52% of them in the last 2 mo, and 40% in the last month. Inpatient expenses accounted for over 70% of the decedents’ total costs.”
http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/full/165/6/750

There are alot of problems with health care. One of the biggest is just that we as people will do anything to avoid death. Usually assisted by doctors who have taken oaths and years of training to stop death at all costs.

What we end up with is a situtation where modern tech and medicine has outgrown our ethos about medicine. Decisions about what should be done are made by two groups, doctors who have made an oath to maximize life, and family members who are often in shock and pain and looking to avoid what is coming.
This same care is paid for by neither of these groups.

We need to find a better way of dying. Spending tens to hundreds of thousands for maybe days needs to change.

[DWCAP]

[quote=patientrenter]
On one hand, I don’t think any human should be denied life saving healthcare just because they can’t pay.

On the other hand, there are only so many resources to go around, so we do need limitations…..[/quote]

“In its submission to the Romanow commission on the future of health care, the institute said that 30 to 50 per cent of total lifetime health care expenditures occur in the last six months of life.”
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LVZ/is_8_17/ai_84895863/

“Total health care costs in the United States (U.S.) reached $989 billion in 1995 and now exceed $1 trillion, 14% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) (1). Of this total, a disproportionate share is attributable to the care of elderly patients shortly before their deaths. According to Lubitz and Prihoda (2) and Lubitz and Riley (3), 6% of Medicare recipients 65 yr of age and older who died in 1978 and 1988 accounted for 28% of all costs of the Medicare program. In the same two years, 77% of the Medicare decedents’ expenditures occurred in the last year of life, 52% of them in the last 2 mo, and 40% in the last month. Inpatient expenses accounted for over 70% of the decedents’ total costs.”
http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/full/165/6/750

There are alot of problems with health care. One of the biggest is just that we as people will do anything to avoid death. Usually assisted by doctors who have taken oaths and years of training to stop death at all costs.

What we end up with is a situtation where modern tech and medicine has outgrown our ethos about medicine. Decisions about what should be done are made by two groups, doctors who have made an oath to maximize life, and family members who are often in shock and pain and looking to avoid what is coming.
This same care is paid for by neither of these groups.

We need to find a better way of dying. Spending tens to hundreds of thousands for maybe days needs to change.

[DWCAP]

Im no expert on this, but how can everyone be saying good job or great timing without any details? We dont even have a purchase price range. So he got a good interest rate and it was a good deal????

This isnt to take away from your purchase bubblesitter, I am sure itll work out for you. I am glad you are happy with your new home. I just want to know where this sedement of celebration and congratulations comes from without any knowledge of the details of the purchase price. Or is now a good time to buy, regardless of the little details like price, size, condition, or location?

[DWCAP]

Im no expert on this, but how can everyone be saying good job or great timing without any details? We dont even have a purchase price range. So he got a good interest rate and it was a good deal????

This isnt to take away from your purchase bubblesitter, I am sure itll work out for you. I am glad you are happy with your new home. I just want to know where this sedement of celebration and congratulations comes from without any knowledge of the details of the purchase price. Or is now a good time to buy, regardless of the little details like price, size, condition, or location?

[DWCAP]

Im no expert on this, but how can everyone be saying good job or great timing without any details? We dont even have a purchase price range. So he got a good interest rate and it was a good deal????

This isnt to take away from your purchase bubblesitter, I am sure itll work out for you. I am glad you are happy with your new home. I just want to know where this sedement of celebration and congratulations comes from without any knowledge of the details of the purchase price. Or is now a good time to buy, regardless of the little details like price, size, condition, or location?

[DWCAP]

Im no expert on this, but how can everyone be saying good job or great timing without any details? We dont even have a purchase price range. So he got a good interest rate and it was a good deal????

This isnt to take away from your purchase bubblesitter, I am sure itll work out for you. I am glad you are happy with your new home. I just want to know where this sedement of celebration and congratulations comes from without any knowledge of the details of the purchase price. Or is now a good time to buy, regardless of the little details like price, size, condition, or location?

[DWCAP]

Im no expert on this, but how can everyone be saying good job or great timing without any details? We dont even have a purchase price range. So he got a good interest rate and it was a good deal????

This isnt to take away from your purchase bubblesitter, I am sure itll work out for you. I am glad you are happy with your new home. I just want to know where this sedement of celebration and congratulations comes from without any knowledge of the details of the purchase price. Or is now a good time to buy, regardless of the little details like price, size, condition, or location?

[DWCAP]

Captioning the Quote:

Geithner: “If I dont tell them how Fd up things are, maybe itll all go away!”

Obama “Ahhh, Hope…..”

[DWCAP]

Captioning the Quote:

Geithner: “If I dont tell them how Fd up things are, maybe itll all go away!”

Obama “Ahhh, Hope…..”

[DWCAP]

Captioning the Quote:

Geithner: “If I dont tell them how Fd up things are, maybe itll all go away!”

Obama “Ahhh, Hope…..”

[Author]

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