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davelj
Participant[quote=aldante]Davelj – you get my vote for winning the war of words. But……
I simply can not resist. Sorry. Why can these wise men who are so educated not have predicted what would happen? I am just a layman but is it not true that successfull prediction is ultimate goal of science? More to my point. No defense of Griffin but please explain Allan or Davij:[/quote]The ultimate goal of science is discovery. I don’t know whether “successful prediction” has much to do with it. Although it’s called a “science,” I personally don’t view economics as a “science.” But that’s just me. Just because it involves math doesn’t make it a science.
[quote=aldante]
The President of Harvard Larry Summers (he has some degrees right?) shoots down Broksey Born as to her pointing out the need to regulate derivitives in the late 90’s…Alan Greenspan (“smartest economist in country?”) stands right along side of Larry Summers and says the same. He also writes paper after paper telling us plebes that real estate always goes up. That the”wealth effect” will change mankind forever… Ben Bernanke – in May 2008 tells the American Plebes not to worry about Freddie and Fannie…[/quote]You will find precious little defense from me in these threads regarding the actions of Summers, Greenspan, Bernanke, et al., so I really don’t know what to say to you here. I’m not sure there’s a strong correlation between “high education” and fundamental “good decision-making.”
[quote=aldante]
Then look at the “second tier” who did predict with accuracy…Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Meredith Whitney, Noriel Roubini, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente? [/quote]Smart folks who got it right (although I know nothing about Celente, to be clear). And three PhD’s between them, as well. Just for the record.
[quote=aldante]
Sorry guys but I think the reason for support Griffin is receiving is becasue the “other”guys are inept.[/quote]Fine, but that’s a logical fallacy. Just because certain others are inept tells us NOTHING about Griffin.
[quote=aldante]
And I must say your defense of the fractional reserve banking system seems to ignore these above points. [/quote]Actually it doesn’t. The only person you’ve cited above who has a problem with the fractional reserve system – in general terms – is Ron Paul. The others have an issue with how the system is administered, not the system itself. And I generally AGREE with their criticisms.
[quote=aldante]
How about this one for you?How many innocent babies and wifes would be killed by errant “smart” missles and bombs in far away lands with out the Fractional Reserve banking system? How about American sons and daughters – and their loved ones? Yes I am drawing a direct link to our supposed wealth and our ability to build bombs with our “Federal” Reserve system. We could not afford 10 YEARS in Afghanistan without the Federal Reserve. What if your taxes had to go up to pay for that war? I think we would see massive rebellion in this country if they did.
It is possible that this was never a conspiracy from the beginning but right now it looks and feels like a bunch of frat boys are running the show. These guys have known each other (or of each other) and know which rules to take advantage of and which to hide behind. Long term thye seem much less concerned about their duties as public servants and more concerned about their egos/wealth. I don’t trust them at all. I have a reaction anytime some one defends them also. Sorry for the rant but it just came out.[/quote]
Yeah, this last part is kind of a political rant that I don’t have any opinion on. You’ve covered too much ground here for me to state a brief opinion.
But to get back to the original point, I don’t have any great problem with the fractional reserve system in general. But I have a big problem with the manner in which it has been administered – problems exacerbated by the likes of Greenspan, Bernanke, Summers, et al. But let’s not confuse the two issues. And, more on topic, none of this has anything to do with the legitimacy of Edward Griffin. In this debate, both Greenspan and Griffin can be quacks. It’s not a mutually exclusive condition.
Participant[quote=aldante]Davelj – you get my vote for winning the war of words. But……
I simply can not resist. Sorry. Why can these wise men who are so educated not have predicted what would happen? I am just a layman but is it not true that successfull prediction is ultimate goal of science? More to my point. No defense of Griffin but please explain Allan or Davij:[/quote]The ultimate goal of science is discovery. I don’t know whether “successful prediction” has much to do with it. Although it’s called a “science,” I personally don’t view economics as a “science.” But that’s just me. Just because it involves math doesn’t make it a science.
[quote=aldante]
The President of Harvard Larry Summers (he has some degrees right?) shoots down Broksey Born as to her pointing out the need to regulate derivitives in the late 90’s…Alan Greenspan (“smartest economist in country?”) stands right along side of Larry Summers and says the same. He also writes paper after paper telling us plebes that real estate always goes up. That the”wealth effect” will change mankind forever… Ben Bernanke – in May 2008 tells the American Plebes not to worry about Freddie and Fannie…[/quote]You will find precious little defense from me in these threads regarding the actions of Summers, Greenspan, Bernanke, et al., so I really don’t know what to say to you here. I’m not sure there’s a strong correlation between “high education” and fundamental “good decision-making.”
[quote=aldante]
Then look at the “second tier” who did predict with accuracy…Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Meredith Whitney, Noriel Roubini, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente? [/quote]Smart folks who got it right (although I know nothing about Celente, to be clear). And three PhD’s between them, as well. Just for the record.
[quote=aldante]
Sorry guys but I think the reason for support Griffin is receiving is becasue the “other”guys are inept.[/quote]Fine, but that’s a logical fallacy. Just because certain others are inept tells us NOTHING about Griffin.
[quote=aldante]
And I must say your defense of the fractional reserve banking system seems to ignore these above points. [/quote]Actually it doesn’t. The only person you’ve cited above who has a problem with the fractional reserve system – in general terms – is Ron Paul. The others have an issue with how the system is administered, not the system itself. And I generally AGREE with their criticisms.
[quote=aldante]
How about this one for you?How many innocent babies and wifes would be killed by errant “smart” missles and bombs in far away lands with out the Fractional Reserve banking system? How about American sons and daughters – and their loved ones? Yes I am drawing a direct link to our supposed wealth and our ability to build bombs with our “Federal” Reserve system. We could not afford 10 YEARS in Afghanistan without the Federal Reserve. What if your taxes had to go up to pay for that war? I think we would see massive rebellion in this country if they did.
It is possible that this was never a conspiracy from the beginning but right now it looks and feels like a bunch of frat boys are running the show. These guys have known each other (or of each other) and know which rules to take advantage of and which to hide behind. Long term thye seem much less concerned about their duties as public servants and more concerned about their egos/wealth. I don’t trust them at all. I have a reaction anytime some one defends them also. Sorry for the rant but it just came out.[/quote]
Yeah, this last part is kind of a political rant that I don’t have any opinion on. You’ve covered too much ground here for me to state a brief opinion.
But to get back to the original point, I don’t have any great problem with the fractional reserve system in general. But I have a big problem with the manner in which it has been administered – problems exacerbated by the likes of Greenspan, Bernanke, Summers, et al. But let’s not confuse the two issues. And, more on topic, none of this has anything to do with the legitimacy of Edward Griffin. In this debate, both Greenspan and Griffin can be quacks. It’s not a mutually exclusive condition.
Participant[quote=aldante]Davelj – you get my vote for winning the war of words. But……
I simply can not resist. Sorry. Why can these wise men who are so educated not have predicted what would happen? I am just a layman but is it not true that successfull prediction is ultimate goal of science? More to my point. No defense of Griffin but please explain Allan or Davij:[/quote]The ultimate goal of science is discovery. I don’t know whether “successful prediction” has much to do with it. Although it’s called a “science,” I personally don’t view economics as a “science.” But that’s just me. Just because it involves math doesn’t make it a science.
[quote=aldante]
The President of Harvard Larry Summers (he has some degrees right?) shoots down Broksey Born as to her pointing out the need to regulate derivitives in the late 90’s…Alan Greenspan (“smartest economist in country?”) stands right along side of Larry Summers and says the same. He also writes paper after paper telling us plebes that real estate always goes up. That the”wealth effect” will change mankind forever… Ben Bernanke – in May 2008 tells the American Plebes not to worry about Freddie and Fannie…[/quote]You will find precious little defense from me in these threads regarding the actions of Summers, Greenspan, Bernanke, et al., so I really don’t know what to say to you here. I’m not sure there’s a strong correlation between “high education” and fundamental “good decision-making.”
[quote=aldante]
Then look at the “second tier” who did predict with accuracy…Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Meredith Whitney, Noriel Roubini, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente? [/quote]Smart folks who got it right (although I know nothing about Celente, to be clear). And three PhD’s between them, as well. Just for the record.
[quote=aldante]
Sorry guys but I think the reason for support Griffin is receiving is becasue the “other”guys are inept.[/quote]Fine, but that’s a logical fallacy. Just because certain others are inept tells us NOTHING about Griffin.
[quote=aldante]
And I must say your defense of the fractional reserve banking system seems to ignore these above points. [/quote]Actually it doesn’t. The only person you’ve cited above who has a problem with the fractional reserve system – in general terms – is Ron Paul. The others have an issue with how the system is administered, not the system itself. And I generally AGREE with their criticisms.
[quote=aldante]
How about this one for you?How many innocent babies and wifes would be killed by errant “smart” missles and bombs in far away lands with out the Fractional Reserve banking system? How about American sons and daughters – and their loved ones? Yes I am drawing a direct link to our supposed wealth and our ability to build bombs with our “Federal” Reserve system. We could not afford 10 YEARS in Afghanistan without the Federal Reserve. What if your taxes had to go up to pay for that war? I think we would see massive rebellion in this country if they did.
It is possible that this was never a conspiracy from the beginning but right now it looks and feels like a bunch of frat boys are running the show. These guys have known each other (or of each other) and know which rules to take advantage of and which to hide behind. Long term thye seem much less concerned about their duties as public servants and more concerned about their egos/wealth. I don’t trust them at all. I have a reaction anytime some one defends them also. Sorry for the rant but it just came out.[/quote]
Yeah, this last part is kind of a political rant that I don’t have any opinion on. You’ve covered too much ground here for me to state a brief opinion.
But to get back to the original point, I don’t have any great problem with the fractional reserve system in general. But I have a big problem with the manner in which it has been administered – problems exacerbated by the likes of Greenspan, Bernanke, Summers, et al. But let’s not confuse the two issues. And, more on topic, none of this has anything to do with the legitimacy of Edward Griffin. In this debate, both Greenspan and Griffin can be quacks. It’s not a mutually exclusive condition.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
I think we all know that you never received two PhDs from “Collage”… [/quote]Dude, you are totally ruining our chances of seeing investor’s collages!! Uncool. Totally uncool!
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
I think we all know that you never received two PhDs from “Collage”… [/quote]Dude, you are totally ruining our chances of seeing investor’s collages!! Uncool. Totally uncool!
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
I think we all know that you never received two PhDs from “Collage”… [/quote]Dude, you are totally ruining our chances of seeing investor’s collages!! Uncool. Totally uncool!
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
I think we all know that you never received two PhDs from “Collage”… [/quote]Dude, you are totally ruining our chances of seeing investor’s collages!! Uncool. Totally uncool!
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
I think we all know that you never received two PhDs from “Collage”… [/quote]Dude, you are totally ruining our chances of seeing investor’s collages!! Uncool. Totally uncool!
Participant[quote=jstoesz][quote]I suspect it is because you are a failure…[/quote]
Can we all just stand aghast at this statement for a second?
BGIG, out of curiosity what do your business(s) do?[/quote]
To quote Ron Burgundy, “Rich. And compelling.”
Participant[quote=jstoesz][quote]I suspect it is because you are a failure…[/quote]
Can we all just stand aghast at this statement for a second?
BGIG, out of curiosity what do your business(s) do?[/quote]
To quote Ron Burgundy, “Rich. And compelling.”
Participant[quote=jstoesz][quote]I suspect it is because you are a failure…[/quote]
Can we all just stand aghast at this statement for a second?
BGIG, out of curiosity what do your business(s) do?[/quote]
To quote Ron Burgundy, “Rich. And compelling.”
Participant[quote=jstoesz][quote]I suspect it is because you are a failure…[/quote]
Can we all just stand aghast at this statement for a second?
BGIG, out of curiosity what do your business(s) do?[/quote]
To quote Ron Burgundy, “Rich. And compelling.”
Participant[quote=jstoesz][quote]I suspect it is because you are a failure…[/quote]
Can we all just stand aghast at this statement for a second?
BGIG, out of curiosity what do your business(s) do?[/quote]
To quote Ron Burgundy, “Rich. And compelling.”
Participant[quote=pri_dk]Investor,
You’re right about Allan. He’s not a SEAL.
He is a retired Army officer
Airborne Ranger
Combat veteran (Vietnam)
And he can spell
So let’s hear more about *your* credentials.[/quote]
And, from what I can recall, Allan has only brought up his military background in the context of discussions about the military, etc. That is, in the “appropriate” context. He doesn’t pull investor’s unsolicited “I have more degrees that you two combined” out of his ass in a random manner. So, apples and oranges, I’m afraid.
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