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DaCounselor
ParticipantA very bad call as to timing. Still way off as to the index level. A disasterous call as to “no fall rally” and staying out of the market for at least a year (leaving 20+% returns on the table). I’m not seeing where this was a good call or even a close call by any definition.
ParticipantA very bad call as to timing. Still way off as to the index level. A disasterous call as to “no fall rally” and staying out of the market for at least a year (leaving 20+% returns on the table). I’m not seeing where this was a good call or even a close call by any definition.
ParticipantA very bad call as to timing. Still way off as to the index level. A disasterous call as to “no fall rally” and staying out of the market for at least a year (leaving 20+% returns on the table). I’m not seeing where this was a good call or even a close call by any definition.
Participant“The argument that this is theft or fraud is kind of silly though.”
____________________________Agreed.
And unless the borrower signs a contract with the lender agreeing to disclose all offers, the borrower can present whatever offers they see fit. In fact, the borrower can present only the lowball offer from his brother and say take it or leave it to the lender – then the lender can evaluate whether it makes more sense to take the lowball or foreclose and become a property manager in a declining market.
I simply do not see anything fraudulent here. If the lender doesn’t like the offer, don’t accept it. Have a BPO done and see what the market says. It’s that simple.
Withholding information does not equate to fraud. Does a lender commit fraud if they don’t tell you that they can do the deal with no points instead of 1 point if you agree to the 1 point? Of course not. You don’t like the deal, don’t do the deal.
Participant“The argument that this is theft or fraud is kind of silly though.”
____________________________Agreed.
And unless the borrower signs a contract with the lender agreeing to disclose all offers, the borrower can present whatever offers they see fit. In fact, the borrower can present only the lowball offer from his brother and say take it or leave it to the lender – then the lender can evaluate whether it makes more sense to take the lowball or foreclose and become a property manager in a declining market.
I simply do not see anything fraudulent here. If the lender doesn’t like the offer, don’t accept it. Have a BPO done and see what the market says. It’s that simple.
Withholding information does not equate to fraud. Does a lender commit fraud if they don’t tell you that they can do the deal with no points instead of 1 point if you agree to the 1 point? Of course not. You don’t like the deal, don’t do the deal.
Participant“The argument that this is theft or fraud is kind of silly though.”
____________________________Agreed.
And unless the borrower signs a contract with the lender agreeing to disclose all offers, the borrower can present whatever offers they see fit. In fact, the borrower can present only the lowball offer from his brother and say take it or leave it to the lender – then the lender can evaluate whether it makes more sense to take the lowball or foreclose and become a property manager in a declining market.
I simply do not see anything fraudulent here. If the lender doesn’t like the offer, don’t accept it. Have a BPO done and see what the market says. It’s that simple.
Withholding information does not equate to fraud. Does a lender commit fraud if they don’t tell you that they can do the deal with no points instead of 1 point if you agree to the 1 point? Of course not. You don’t like the deal, don’t do the deal.
Participant“The argument that this is theft or fraud is kind of silly though.”
____________________________Agreed.
And unless the borrower signs a contract with the lender agreeing to disclose all offers, the borrower can present whatever offers they see fit. In fact, the borrower can present only the lowball offer from his brother and say take it or leave it to the lender – then the lender can evaluate whether it makes more sense to take the lowball or foreclose and become a property manager in a declining market.
I simply do not see anything fraudulent here. If the lender doesn’t like the offer, don’t accept it. Have a BPO done and see what the market says. It’s that simple.
Withholding information does not equate to fraud. Does a lender commit fraud if they don’t tell you that they can do the deal with no points instead of 1 point if you agree to the 1 point? Of course not. You don’t like the deal, don’t do the deal.
Participant“The argument that this is theft or fraud is kind of silly though.”
____________________________Agreed.
And unless the borrower signs a contract with the lender agreeing to disclose all offers, the borrower can present whatever offers they see fit. In fact, the borrower can present only the lowball offer from his brother and say take it or leave it to the lender – then the lender can evaluate whether it makes more sense to take the lowball or foreclose and become a property manager in a declining market.
I simply do not see anything fraudulent here. If the lender doesn’t like the offer, don’t accept it. Have a BPO done and see what the market says. It’s that simple.
Withholding information does not equate to fraud. Does a lender commit fraud if they don’t tell you that they can do the deal with no points instead of 1 point if you agree to the 1 point? Of course not. You don’t like the deal, don’t do the deal.
ParticipantThis is a generality but fraud requires that a false statement be made – knowingly – with the intent to induce reliance on it. There is absolutely nothing fraudulent about a homeowner withholding better offers in a short sale situation. Now if the bank specifically inquires regarding other offers and they are told no other offers exist, that is probably fraud – a false statement being knowingly made to induce the bank to accept a lesser offer, which arguably damages the bank.
The fraud accusation is something that gets thrown around in the blogosphere quite a bit and in a cavalier fashion. I would estimate that 95% of the fraud allegations that I see in cyberspace are not fraud, and not even close to being fraud. It’s a word that many use without understanding what it really is. No offense intended to anyone, of course – just my observations.
ParticipantThis is a generality but fraud requires that a false statement be made – knowingly – with the intent to induce reliance on it. There is absolutely nothing fraudulent about a homeowner withholding better offers in a short sale situation. Now if the bank specifically inquires regarding other offers and they are told no other offers exist, that is probably fraud – a false statement being knowingly made to induce the bank to accept a lesser offer, which arguably damages the bank.
The fraud accusation is something that gets thrown around in the blogosphere quite a bit and in a cavalier fashion. I would estimate that 95% of the fraud allegations that I see in cyberspace are not fraud, and not even close to being fraud. It’s a word that many use without understanding what it really is. No offense intended to anyone, of course – just my observations.
ParticipantThis is a generality but fraud requires that a false statement be made – knowingly – with the intent to induce reliance on it. There is absolutely nothing fraudulent about a homeowner withholding better offers in a short sale situation. Now if the bank specifically inquires regarding other offers and they are told no other offers exist, that is probably fraud – a false statement being knowingly made to induce the bank to accept a lesser offer, which arguably damages the bank.
The fraud accusation is something that gets thrown around in the blogosphere quite a bit and in a cavalier fashion. I would estimate that 95% of the fraud allegations that I see in cyberspace are not fraud, and not even close to being fraud. It’s a word that many use without understanding what it really is. No offense intended to anyone, of course – just my observations.
ParticipantThis is a generality but fraud requires that a false statement be made – knowingly – with the intent to induce reliance on it. There is absolutely nothing fraudulent about a homeowner withholding better offers in a short sale situation. Now if the bank specifically inquires regarding other offers and they are told no other offers exist, that is probably fraud – a false statement being knowingly made to induce the bank to accept a lesser offer, which arguably damages the bank.
The fraud accusation is something that gets thrown around in the blogosphere quite a bit and in a cavalier fashion. I would estimate that 95% of the fraud allegations that I see in cyberspace are not fraud, and not even close to being fraud. It’s a word that many use without understanding what it really is. No offense intended to anyone, of course – just my observations.
ParticipantThis is a generality but fraud requires that a false statement be made – knowingly – with the intent to induce reliance on it. There is absolutely nothing fraudulent about a homeowner withholding better offers in a short sale situation. Now if the bank specifically inquires regarding other offers and they are told no other offers exist, that is probably fraud – a false statement being knowingly made to induce the bank to accept a lesser offer, which arguably damages the bank.
The fraud accusation is something that gets thrown around in the blogosphere quite a bit and in a cavalier fashion. I would estimate that 95% of the fraud allegations that I see in cyberspace are not fraud, and not even close to being fraud. It’s a word that many use without understanding what it really is. No offense intended to anyone, of course – just my observations.
Participant“well my point is why should the idiots who can’t make the payments stay in their home? Can’t the reduced principle be given to a new buyer with better credit instead?”
_______________________________The philosophy behind keeping people in their homes is driven by the obvious politics involved and also typically makes more financial sense. All things being equal it just makes more sense to keep current occupants in the home, assuming ability to pay based upon the new principal balance.
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