[cabal]

[quote=paddyoh][quote=PKMAN]Couldn’t help to jump back in…

Rt66, even though we’re on different sides and I think you are too radical in your view, I admire you for taking the time and the detail to defend the Big 2, while the original poster pretty much just sit on the sideline to watch a good fight and only jumping in occasionally…….. [/quote]

I’m guessin’ that “original poster” would be me.

In case you forgot, my original title for this forum was:

“Time for Jeff Bridges to dump Hyundai….”

The topic understandably turned to automobiles, manufacturers, etc. – which was fine by me. I’ve made it clear that I agree with Rt. 66 and his belief in buying American made cars, etc. He has made his case so thoroughly I honestly do not know what I can add to defend the documented quality of the American made automobile or the mass screwing of the American blue collar worker.

The bigger picture to me has become American apathy towards American Made goods – particularly cars manufactured in the U.S.A.

It just baffles me that there is so much venom spewed by Americans against American auto workers and American made cars. It would seem that much of that comes from outright jealousy that the American auto worker had the nerve to make a decent enough wage to own a home and send his or her kids to college. That jealousy is then channeled towards the American car itself.

Then there appears to be guilt. The shame of, in a way, selling out one’s own country during a time of nearly unparalleled crisis, by buying a third world automobile and then trying to justify it by blaming it on unfounded, inferior American quality.

There are no doubt people here who have purchased an American made car that turned out to be a lemon. They have a legitimate gripe and may never buy anything other than an imported car again.

But, all the jealousy, guilt, shame, anger or whatever else is the motivation, does not change the fact that we are all still Americans. Maybe, at the end of the day, we can stop sweating the small stuff and pull together to help fix what the politicians cannot.

By buying American again, or even consciously making an effort to buy American made again, right now, today, even if it hurts or costs more, we can make a tiny step forward in restoring our sorely-needed manufacturing base. Americans did it during the World Wars. Why not now ?

Given the pickle we are in, I don’t think you can consider it protectionism. Nor blind patriotism, or being foolish with your money. Right now, today, it just makes sense.

Please take a few minutes of your time to ask Jeff Bridges to use his clout as a major celebrity and publicly renounce the Hyundai commercials and jump on the American Made bandwagon.

http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355%5B/quote%5D

No doubt the big 3s reliability and durability have improved in recent years and you could get one to last 150K miles. However, look at any reputable reliability survey and the Japanese cars statistically still win hands down. Even if the statistical edge is .01% and your main criteria is reliability, why would you not take advantage of it ? We all know the cost of repairs after warranty. You can’t leave a shop without coughing up a few hundred bucks even for the smallest repair, and if you’re a typical middle class family living check to check, why subject your family to that potential extra financial strain.

Let’s never forget that GM is a business like any other business whose ultimate goal is to turn a profit and create value for their shareholders. In other words, they don’t really care about you or the well being of your family. Any charity, sponsorship, community service, or random act of kindness to the general public cleverly disguised in the form of core business principles, is only performed to support that goal. Second, I don’t understand why people try to link love of country with support of a business whose profits stay private. Private profits whether it’s GM or Toyota can be benefitted by the public by simply buying their stock. Playing the Patriot card as a marketing tool to shame loyal Americans into buying a statistically inferior product from a company with an unsustainable cost structure is about as unamerican as it gets, bordering on socialism. Tough love intervention bankruptcy is the best solution for GM at this time. I truly hope they take this second/third chance and reemerge with the right focus to reestablish themselves as a global force for the sake of all those whose livelihood depend on it.

I am one of those that fell for the buy American marketing trick in the 80s. It was a GM and a piece of crap that gave me a lot of headaches especially with the dealer. I owned it for about 2 years and decided to sell it to cut my losses. Then I purchased my first foreign car, a Toyota Celica GT-S. Aside from regular maintenance, tires, etc., the only other cost was a new radiator at 180K. I drove it 250K miles with no more problems before selling it. I was sold.

Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.

[cabal]

Slightly off topic post more related to bottom.

All the usual metrics used to understand the RE market have flaws in one form or another including Case-Shiller and rent to mortgage parity. Many are lagging indictors and none dictate market direction. Even the laws of supply/demand and affordability rules do not apply at least for the short term, with short term being a few years. How else can one explain a house selling for less than the cost of construction with the land and landscaping thrown in for free, like some current homes in Temecula and parts of sd county. On the bubble side, how can one justify plain starter homes in average neighborhoods sell in excess of 300/400 psf ? Both happen and will continue to happen because fear and greed drive the herd. In short, RE has no intrinsic value much like fine art or classic cars. In my judgment, the only factor that drives home value is CONFIDENCE of the masses. Factors such as interest rates and unemployment have secondary effects, magnified during bear markets and minimized during bull markets. Ask yourself what would happen to the market if unemployment and rates both spiked to 10% in 2004/2005 when homes were appreciating 10-15%/year. Will the market immediately decline precipitously, or will the appreciation rate slightly flatten, or will the appreciation actually increase because the 90% still employed are salivating at the reduced competition.

The unprecedented number of NOD/foreclosures is a new toxic variable with a self perpetuating erosion on confidence. Nevertheless, I am definitely seeing a change in confidence with a lot of sideline money coming back into the market. My suggestion is to do the following. Every month ask 100 people of diverse backgrounds if they think it’s a good time to buy a house. If the answer is 50% positive, we may have turned the corner.

[cabal]

Slightly off topic post more related to bottom.

All the usual metrics used to understand the RE market have flaws in one form or another including Case-Shiller and rent to mortgage parity. Many are lagging indictors and none dictate market direction. Even the laws of supply/demand and affordability rules do not apply at least for the short term, with short term being a few years. How else can one explain a house selling for less than the cost of construction with the land and landscaping thrown in for free, like some current homes in Temecula and parts of sd county. On the bubble side, how can one justify plain starter homes in average neighborhoods sell in excess of 300/400 psf ? Both happen and will continue to happen because fear and greed drive the herd. In short, RE has no intrinsic value much like fine art or classic cars. In my judgment, the only factor that drives home value is CONFIDENCE of the masses. Factors such as interest rates and unemployment have secondary effects, magnified during bear markets and minimized during bull markets. Ask yourself what would happen to the market if unemployment and rates both spiked to 10% in 2004/2005 when homes were appreciating 10-15%/year. Will the market immediately decline precipitously, or will the appreciation rate slightly flatten, or will the appreciation actually increase because the 90% still employed are salivating at the reduced competition.

The unprecedented number of NOD/foreclosures is a new toxic variable with a self perpetuating erosion on confidence. Nevertheless, I am definitely seeing a change in confidence with a lot of sideline money coming back into the market. My suggestion is to do the following. Every month ask 100 people of diverse backgrounds if they think it’s a good time to buy a house. If the answer is 50% positive, we may have turned the corner.

[cabal]

Slightly off topic post more related to bottom.

All the usual metrics used to understand the RE market have flaws in one form or another including Case-Shiller and rent to mortgage parity. Many are lagging indictors and none dictate market direction. Even the laws of supply/demand and affordability rules do not apply at least for the short term, with short term being a few years. How else can one explain a house selling for less than the cost of construction with the land and landscaping thrown in for free, like some current homes in Temecula and parts of sd county. On the bubble side, how can one justify plain starter homes in average neighborhoods sell in excess of 300/400 psf ? Both happen and will continue to happen because fear and greed drive the herd. In short, RE has no intrinsic value much like fine art or classic cars. In my judgment, the only factor that drives home value is CONFIDENCE of the masses. Factors such as interest rates and unemployment have secondary effects, magnified during bear markets and minimized during bull markets. Ask yourself what would happen to the market if unemployment and rates both spiked to 10% in 2004/2005 when homes were appreciating 10-15%/year. Will the market immediately decline precipitously, or will the appreciation rate slightly flatten, or will the appreciation actually increase because the 90% still employed are salivating at the reduced competition.

The unprecedented number of NOD/foreclosures is a new toxic variable with a self perpetuating erosion on confidence. Nevertheless, I am definitely seeing a change in confidence with a lot of sideline money coming back into the market. My suggestion is to do the following. Every month ask 100 people of diverse backgrounds if they think it’s a good time to buy a house. If the answer is 50% positive, we may have turned the corner.

[cabal]

Slightly off topic post more related to bottom.

All the usual metrics used to understand the RE market have flaws in one form or another including Case-Shiller and rent to mortgage parity. Many are lagging indictors and none dictate market direction. Even the laws of supply/demand and affordability rules do not apply at least for the short term, with short term being a few years. How else can one explain a house selling for less than the cost of construction with the land and landscaping thrown in for free, like some current homes in Temecula and parts of sd county. On the bubble side, how can one justify plain starter homes in average neighborhoods sell in excess of 300/400 psf ? Both happen and will continue to happen because fear and greed drive the herd. In short, RE has no intrinsic value much like fine art or classic cars. In my judgment, the only factor that drives home value is CONFIDENCE of the masses. Factors such as interest rates and unemployment have secondary effects, magnified during bear markets and minimized during bull markets. Ask yourself what would happen to the market if unemployment and rates both spiked to 10% in 2004/2005 when homes were appreciating 10-15%/year. Will the market immediately decline precipitously, or will the appreciation rate slightly flatten, or will the appreciation actually increase because the 90% still employed are salivating at the reduced competition.

The unprecedented number of NOD/foreclosures is a new toxic variable with a self perpetuating erosion on confidence. Nevertheless, I am definitely seeing a change in confidence with a lot of sideline money coming back into the market. My suggestion is to do the following. Every month ask 100 people of diverse backgrounds if they think it’s a good time to buy a house. If the answer is 50% positive, we may have turned the corner.

[cabal]

Slightly off topic post more related to bottom.

All the usual metrics used to understand the RE market have flaws in one form or another including Case-Shiller and rent to mortgage parity. Many are lagging indictors and none dictate market direction. Even the laws of supply/demand and affordability rules do not apply at least for the short term, with short term being a few years. How else can one explain a house selling for less than the cost of construction with the land and landscaping thrown in for free, like some current homes in Temecula and parts of sd county. On the bubble side, how can one justify plain starter homes in average neighborhoods sell in excess of 300/400 psf ? Both happen and will continue to happen because fear and greed drive the herd. In short, RE has no intrinsic value much like fine art or classic cars. In my judgment, the only factor that drives home value is CONFIDENCE of the masses. Factors such as interest rates and unemployment have secondary effects, magnified during bear markets and minimized during bull markets. Ask yourself what would happen to the market if unemployment and rates both spiked to 10% in 2004/2005 when homes were appreciating 10-15%/year. Will the market immediately decline precipitously, or will the appreciation rate slightly flatten, or will the appreciation actually increase because the 90% still employed are salivating at the reduced competition.

The unprecedented number of NOD/foreclosures is a new toxic variable with a self perpetuating erosion on confidence. Nevertheless, I am definitely seeing a change in confidence with a lot of sideline money coming back into the market. My suggestion is to do the following. Every month ask 100 people of diverse backgrounds if they think it’s a good time to buy a house. If the answer is 50% positive, we may have turned the corner.

[cabal]

[quote=HomeShopping]Here’s Cabal’s post from Sept 6, 2008:

“We live in a gated community with no renters where average home values hover well over 1M even today.”

I suspect that Cabal lives in one of the communities that he is promoting (i.e. Bel Etage, Savenna or Salviati).

I have heard that these communities have had to place security cameras at the gate entrances because of vandalism. I think that this is the problem of having a gate with no guard. I like the homes in Avaron, The Crosby, and Santaluz because they have guarded gates and roving security patrols.

[/quote]

I know those 3 communities well because I have a good friend that lives there. They don’t have any security cameras and he has never mentioned vandalism. I also have several friends that live in SantaLuz. I know for a fact there was a home invasion a few years ago, and they have guards at the gate. For the record, I live in the Carmel Valley area.

[cabal]

[quote=HomeShopping]Here’s Cabal’s post from Sept 6, 2008:

“We live in a gated community with no renters where average home values hover well over 1M even today.”

I suspect that Cabal lives in one of the communities that he is promoting (i.e. Bel Etage, Savenna or Salviati).

I have heard that these communities have had to place security cameras at the gate entrances because of vandalism. I think that this is the problem of having a gate with no guard. I like the homes in Avaron, The Crosby, and Santaluz because they have guarded gates and roving security patrols.

[/quote]

I know those 3 communities well because I have a good friend that lives there. They don’t have any security cameras and he has never mentioned vandalism. I also have several friends that live in SantaLuz. I know for a fact there was a home invasion a few years ago, and they have guards at the gate. For the record, I live in the Carmel Valley area.

[cabal]

[quote=HomeShopping]Here’s Cabal’s post from Sept 6, 2008:

“We live in a gated community with no renters where average home values hover well over 1M even today.”

I suspect that Cabal lives in one of the communities that he is promoting (i.e. Bel Etage, Savenna or Salviati).

I have heard that these communities have had to place security cameras at the gate entrances because of vandalism. I think that this is the problem of having a gate with no guard. I like the homes in Avaron, The Crosby, and Santaluz because they have guarded gates and roving security patrols.

[/quote]

I know those 3 communities well because I have a good friend that lives there. They don’t have any security cameras and he has never mentioned vandalism. I also have several friends that live in SantaLuz. I know for a fact there was a home invasion a few years ago, and they have guards at the gate. For the record, I live in the Carmel Valley area.

[cabal]

[quote=HomeShopping]Here’s Cabal’s post from Sept 6, 2008:

“We live in a gated community with no renters where average home values hover well over 1M even today.”

I suspect that Cabal lives in one of the communities that he is promoting (i.e. Bel Etage, Savenna or Salviati).

I have heard that these communities have had to place security cameras at the gate entrances because of vandalism. I think that this is the problem of having a gate with no guard. I like the homes in Avaron, The Crosby, and Santaluz because they have guarded gates and roving security patrols.

[/quote]

I know those 3 communities well because I have a good friend that lives there. They don’t have any security cameras and he has never mentioned vandalism. I also have several friends that live in SantaLuz. I know for a fact there was a home invasion a few years ago, and they have guards at the gate. For the record, I live in the Carmel Valley area.

[cabal]

[quote=HomeShopping]Here’s Cabal’s post from Sept 6, 2008:

“We live in a gated community with no renters where average home values hover well over 1M even today.”

I suspect that Cabal lives in one of the communities that he is promoting (i.e. Bel Etage, Savenna or Salviati).

I have heard that these communities have had to place security cameras at the gate entrances because of vandalism. I think that this is the problem of having a gate with no guard. I like the homes in Avaron, The Crosby, and Santaluz because they have guarded gates and roving security patrols.

[/quote]

I know those 3 communities well because I have a good friend that lives there. They don’t have any security cameras and he has never mentioned vandalism. I also have several friends that live in SantaLuz. I know for a fact there was a home invasion a few years ago, and they have guards at the gate. For the record, I live in the Carmel Valley area.

[cabal]

[quote=Rustico]
Cabal, With the sale you are disappointed with, did you pay 4% total or just to the listing agent? There are a lot of ways to do things. I guess you don’t want to do a FSBO. [/quote]

On that sale, we paid a total of 4%. He was the listing and buyer agent. The entire process lasted 3 weeks, from initial contact to close of escrow. He did recommend new carpet throughout, painting, minor repairs, etc and we reluctantly agreed. In retrospect, it was probably unnecessary since it was a strong sellers market and the house would have sold as-is for the same price; a nice 10K lesson. Turned out the carpet guy and repair crews were his buddies and it wouldn’t surprise me if he got a kick back.

I have done a FSBO before in my younger days and the transaction went smoothly. I don’t want to do a FSBO now simply due to a lack of time resulting from the demands of my job.

As far defining a fair flat fee for the listing agent, I have no idea. I look to the Pigg experts for advice. If I can find an agent that I can trust 100%, I would hire him/her in a second and pay top commission. Unfortunately, my limited interactions with realtors have not been the best experiences, sometimes adversarial and cordial at best. In my experience with the buying/selling of 5 homes, I’ve found their only interest is self-interest in closing quickly and getting that commission check. Even the so called “high powered” agents with the polished presentation who seem to dominate a certain region offer no greater integrity. It’s amazing the unethical stories they will tell when you speak to them in a social function after a few drinks.

[cabal]

[quote=Rustico]
Cabal, With the sale you are disappointed with, did you pay 4% total or just to the listing agent? There are a lot of ways to do things. I guess you don’t want to do a FSBO. [/quote]

On that sale, we paid a total of 4%. He was the listing and buyer agent. The entire process lasted 3 weeks, from initial contact to close of escrow. He did recommend new carpet throughout, painting, minor repairs, etc and we reluctantly agreed. In retrospect, it was probably unnecessary since it was a strong sellers market and the house would have sold as-is for the same price; a nice 10K lesson. Turned out the carpet guy and repair crews were his buddies and it wouldn’t surprise me if he got a kick back.

I have done a FSBO before in my younger days and the transaction went smoothly. I don’t want to do a FSBO now simply due to a lack of time resulting from the demands of my job.

As far defining a fair flat fee for the listing agent, I have no idea. I look to the Pigg experts for advice. If I can find an agent that I can trust 100%, I would hire him/her in a second and pay top commission. Unfortunately, my limited interactions with realtors have not been the best experiences, sometimes adversarial and cordial at best. In my experience with the buying/selling of 5 homes, I’ve found their only interest is self-interest in closing quickly and getting that commission check. Even the so called “high powered” agents with the polished presentation who seem to dominate a certain region offer no greater integrity. It’s amazing the unethical stories they will tell when you speak to them in a social function after a few drinks.

[cabal]

[quote=Rustico]
Cabal, With the sale you are disappointed with, did you pay 4% total or just to the listing agent? There are a lot of ways to do things. I guess you don’t want to do a FSBO. [/quote]

On that sale, we paid a total of 4%. He was the listing and buyer agent. The entire process lasted 3 weeks, from initial contact to close of escrow. He did recommend new carpet throughout, painting, minor repairs, etc and we reluctantly agreed. In retrospect, it was probably unnecessary since it was a strong sellers market and the house would have sold as-is for the same price; a nice 10K lesson. Turned out the carpet guy and repair crews were his buddies and it wouldn’t surprise me if he got a kick back.

I have done a FSBO before in my younger days and the transaction went smoothly. I don’t want to do a FSBO now simply due to a lack of time resulting from the demands of my job.

As far defining a fair flat fee for the listing agent, I have no idea. I look to the Pigg experts for advice. If I can find an agent that I can trust 100%, I would hire him/her in a second and pay top commission. Unfortunately, my limited interactions with realtors have not been the best experiences, sometimes adversarial and cordial at best. In my experience with the buying/selling of 5 homes, I’ve found their only interest is self-interest in closing quickly and getting that commission check. Even the so called “high powered” agents with the polished presentation who seem to dominate a certain region offer no greater integrity. It’s amazing the unethical stories they will tell when you speak to them in a social function after a few drinks.

[cabal]

[quote=Rustico]
Cabal, With the sale you are disappointed with, did you pay 4% total or just to the listing agent? There are a lot of ways to do things. I guess you don’t want to do a FSBO. [/quote]

On that sale, we paid a total of 4%. He was the listing and buyer agent. The entire process lasted 3 weeks, from initial contact to close of escrow. He did recommend new carpet throughout, painting, minor repairs, etc and we reluctantly agreed. In retrospect, it was probably unnecessary since it was a strong sellers market and the house would have sold as-is for the same price; a nice 10K lesson. Turned out the carpet guy and repair crews were his buddies and it wouldn’t surprise me if he got a kick back.

I have done a FSBO before in my younger days and the transaction went smoothly. I don’t want to do a FSBO now simply due to a lack of time resulting from the demands of my job.

As far defining a fair flat fee for the listing agent, I have no idea. I look to the Pigg experts for advice. If I can find an agent that I can trust 100%, I would hire him/her in a second and pay top commission. Unfortunately, my limited interactions with realtors have not been the best experiences, sometimes adversarial and cordial at best. In my experience with the buying/selling of 5 homes, I’ve found their only interest is self-interest in closing quickly and getting that commission check. Even the so called “high powered” agents with the polished presentation who seem to dominate a certain region offer no greater integrity. It’s amazing the unethical stories they will tell when you speak to them in a social function after a few drinks.

[Author]

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