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May 21, 2007 at 7:54 PM in reply to: DR Horton Slashes prices $100k in Murrieta, Menifee, Wildomar and more in … #54228BugsParticipant
If a neighborhood started out at $200k in 1997 the natural inflation to 2007 would result in a price just over $255,000. A $255,000 sale price with 5% down would result in a mortgage of $242,250;
At 7%/30 yr amtz that results in a monthly payment of $1,604 + $238 for the property taxes and another $175 for insurance and HOA; and we end up with a PITI payment of $2,017/month; Divide that by 35% and that ends up with a gross income of about $5,760/mont, or $69,154.
By my count, that $69,000 is right in line with the average household incomes in that area. Coincidentally, The $200k house in 1997 probably peaked out at about $500,000 (maybe a touch higher); and a 50% decline off peak would end up at $250k.
We always talk about the correction coming to the long term trendline; we never seem to but touch on the idea that it could actually overshoot and go negative to the trendline. Logically speaking and considering we just had a massive spike the correction basically has to overshoot in order for that trendline to continue on in the same general direction.
I keep getting that nagging suspicion that maybe a 50% is being too conservative. Maybe our regional wage/population trends don’t economically support the absorbtion of the additional 10% more housing we’ve built in the last 10 years. Maybe now that the specuvestors have left the building we’ll end up facing an oversupply of homes that would lead to a period of below trendline pricing.
Maybe 50% isn’t the number we should be anticipating after all.
May 21, 2007 at 7:54 PM in reply to: DR Horton Slashes prices $100k in Murrieta, Menifee, Wildomar and more in … #54239BugsParticipantIf a neighborhood started out at $200k in 1997 the natural inflation to 2007 would result in a price just over $255,000. A $255,000 sale price with 5% down would result in a mortgage of $242,250;
At 7%/30 yr amtz that results in a monthly payment of $1,604 + $238 for the property taxes and another $175 for insurance and HOA; and we end up with a PITI payment of $2,017/month; Divide that by 35% and that ends up with a gross income of about $5,760/mont, or $69,154.
By my count, that $69,000 is right in line with the average household incomes in that area. Coincidentally, The $200k house in 1997 probably peaked out at about $500,000 (maybe a touch higher); and a 50% decline off peak would end up at $250k.
We always talk about the correction coming to the long term trendline; we never seem to but touch on the idea that it could actually overshoot and go negative to the trendline. Logically speaking and considering we just had a massive spike the correction basically has to overshoot in order for that trendline to continue on in the same general direction.
I keep getting that nagging suspicion that maybe a 50% is being too conservative. Maybe our regional wage/population trends don’t economically support the absorbtion of the additional 10% more housing we’ve built in the last 10 years. Maybe now that the specuvestors have left the building we’ll end up facing an oversupply of homes that would lead to a period of below trendline pricing.
Maybe 50% isn’t the number we should be anticipating after all.
BugsParticipantIf you’re in it for the long haul and this price really does represent a $300k discount off the current value then it could work out for you over the long haul.
This type of home probably wouldn’t come up for sale at all during a depression – it’s not the type of flip-bait situation that would lead to an overextended seller. Pt. Loma is a pretty established community, and even during the boom there weren’t that many transactions down there. This type of situation isn’t the same thing as a typical subdivision home that happens to become available at a currently low price – one of those could be replaced at almost any time.
I guess what I’m driving at is that if you don’t get it now there is a chance you won’t get it at all under favorable financing terms.
BugsParticipantIf you’re in it for the long haul and this price really does represent a $300k discount off the current value then it could work out for you over the long haul.
This type of home probably wouldn’t come up for sale at all during a depression – it’s not the type of flip-bait situation that would lead to an overextended seller. Pt. Loma is a pretty established community, and even during the boom there weren’t that many transactions down there. This type of situation isn’t the same thing as a typical subdivision home that happens to become available at a currently low price – one of those could be replaced at almost any time.
I guess what I’m driving at is that if you don’t get it now there is a chance you won’t get it at all under favorable financing terms.
May 21, 2007 at 2:34 PM in reply to: The current pendings include a lot of must-sell listings #54163BugsParticipantActual foreclosures only account for about half of the must-sell figures I posted above. As I said, I’m pretty sure there are some more in there besides the ones that actually say “foreclosure” or other key words that I was looking for, but I’d have no way of knowing exactly how many without running each listing down. Obviously that’s more trouble that it’s worth to us if alls we’re looking for is a snapshot.
May 21, 2007 at 2:34 PM in reply to: The current pendings include a lot of must-sell listings #54176BugsParticipantActual foreclosures only account for about half of the must-sell figures I posted above. As I said, I’m pretty sure there are some more in there besides the ones that actually say “foreclosure” or other key words that I was looking for, but I’d have no way of knowing exactly how many without running each listing down. Obviously that’s more trouble that it’s worth to us if alls we’re looking for is a snapshot.
May 21, 2007 at 12:53 PM in reply to: Question for sdr, jim, rustico, bugs or other realtors and appraisers #54135BugsParticipantI try not to get too wound up by any one piece of data (datum?). We should be looking for trends as demonstrated by a preponderance of data – the rule, not the exception.
Most of the time when I see a really heavy loss it becomes apparent that the conditions of the sale prior to that resale/loss scenario is what supersized the subsequent loss. Usually that preceding sale was really dumb and should have been caught at the lender’s level, if nowhere else.
We’re so busy looking at burning trees that it may not be apparent that the entire forest hasn’t yet caught fire. Some areas are in full retreat, but there are still a couple areas and price ranges where that retreat is not so apparent to the naked eye.
May 21, 2007 at 12:53 PM in reply to: Question for sdr, jim, rustico, bugs or other realtors and appraisers #54148BugsParticipantI try not to get too wound up by any one piece of data (datum?). We should be looking for trends as demonstrated by a preponderance of data – the rule, not the exception.
Most of the time when I see a really heavy loss it becomes apparent that the conditions of the sale prior to that resale/loss scenario is what supersized the subsequent loss. Usually that preceding sale was really dumb and should have been caught at the lender’s level, if nowhere else.
We’re so busy looking at burning trees that it may not be apparent that the entire forest hasn’t yet caught fire. Some areas are in full retreat, but there are still a couple areas and price ranges where that retreat is not so apparent to the naked eye.
May 21, 2007 at 12:43 PM in reply to: 4S ranch Silhouette starts to sell model homes! will it stop selling future houses?? #54131BugsParticipantYou would normally buy a model home because the total package appeals to you. You want to live the lifestyle they portray in their marketing materials.
Model homes are USUALLY sold with all the furniture, artwork, rugs, fans, shutters, TVs, etc, in place. Once in a while the big pieces of furniture are moved out just because the buyers flat-out don’t want them.
May 21, 2007 at 12:43 PM in reply to: 4S ranch Silhouette starts to sell model homes! will it stop selling future houses?? #54144BugsParticipantYou would normally buy a model home because the total package appeals to you. You want to live the lifestyle they portray in their marketing materials.
Model homes are USUALLY sold with all the furniture, artwork, rugs, fans, shutters, TVs, etc, in place. Once in a while the big pieces of furniture are moved out just because the buyers flat-out don’t want them.
BugsParticipantYou guys need to filter all that stuff out. It’s pretty meaningless anyway. The overuse of superlatives has only one function – to maneuver you into a buying mode by appealing to your emotions.
If you’re going to get emotional about your home purchase – and there’s nothing wrong with that – then you should allow yourself to do it on your own based on what you see and without outside influence.
Having looked at tens of thousands fo MLS listings over the years, I can tell you that you can learn most everything you need to know about a listing within 10 seconds or so. Sometimes less.
BugsParticipantYou guys need to filter all that stuff out. It’s pretty meaningless anyway. The overuse of superlatives has only one function – to maneuver you into a buying mode by appealing to your emotions.
If you’re going to get emotional about your home purchase – and there’s nothing wrong with that – then you should allow yourself to do it on your own based on what you see and without outside influence.
Having looked at tens of thousands fo MLS listings over the years, I can tell you that you can learn most everything you need to know about a listing within 10 seconds or so. Sometimes less.
May 21, 2007 at 8:33 AM in reply to: 4S ranch Silhouette starts to sell model homes! will it stop selling future houses?? #54060BugsParticipantApparently it is the in thing to do these days. One thing that selling a model early in a project does for the project is it instantly provides a closed sale. Closed sales are of great value at the outset of a project because they set a price range for the project from the outset. That willing buyer pulling the trigger at that price is considered proof that their list prices are reasonable, and these inside sales comps are always given more weight overall than sales from outside the project. A closed model home sale will get used as a comparable sale in subsequent appraisals until it becomes too dated to use.
Of course, when using a model home an appraiser is supposed to take into consideration the effect on value of the furnishings and other non-realty property included with the sale as well as all the options and upgrades. The point remains that, beside reducing their carrying costs, selling model homes and then leasing them back for a year or two is almost all poisitive for a builder.
Seeing as how they’ve apparently already sold some homes in this particular project I guess the “closed sale” aspect doesn’t apply. But the “reduced standing inventory” argume still does apply.
May 21, 2007 at 8:33 AM in reply to: 4S ranch Silhouette starts to sell model homes! will it stop selling future houses?? #54071BugsParticipantApparently it is the in thing to do these days. One thing that selling a model early in a project does for the project is it instantly provides a closed sale. Closed sales are of great value at the outset of a project because they set a price range for the project from the outset. That willing buyer pulling the trigger at that price is considered proof that their list prices are reasonable, and these inside sales comps are always given more weight overall than sales from outside the project. A closed model home sale will get used as a comparable sale in subsequent appraisals until it becomes too dated to use.
Of course, when using a model home an appraiser is supposed to take into consideration the effect on value of the furnishings and other non-realty property included with the sale as well as all the options and upgrades. The point remains that, beside reducing their carrying costs, selling model homes and then leasing them back for a year or two is almost all poisitive for a builder.
Seeing as how they’ve apparently already sold some homes in this particular project I guess the “closed sale” aspect doesn’t apply. But the “reduced standing inventory” argume still does apply.
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