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ParticipantI couldn’t help but notice a common opinion among posters here: that corporations somehow are the evil force behind pretty much everything in the world.
You’re misrepresenting the discussion so far. No one has said that corporations are evil. Corporations are not people (although they are recognized as such under US law) and are thus incapable of being either good or evil. They are amoral entities, like jet engines; like jet engines, they can be used for good things as well as bad things.
As citizens, we are collectively responsible for the actions of the corporations of our country. We can control them with our pocketbooks. It is up to us as consumers and engaged citizens to ensure that our corporations do good rather than evil.
ParticipantWe are in Iraq because George W. Bush decided long before he was elected that he wanted us to be there for the benefit of oil companies and other corporations.
I don’t believe that. I think he is really trying to fix that part of the world and bring it into the 21st century. He knows that the US needs allies all around the world and especially in the middle east if we are to have any hope against the extremism that is steadily gaining ground over there because of all of the corrupt governments in the region.
Unfortunately, since it doesn’t look likely that our dream government is going to arise there, we’re going with the classic “divide and conquer” strategy out of the British colonial playbook. That will at least prevent them from being any kind of threat to the US (and our corporations, of course). Bush and Cheney simply overreached. Like Dr. Bovary’s club foot operation in that famous book by Flaubert, they tried to make a bad but stable situation better and ended up making it unstable and worse. I think it was simple hubris and arrogance, not greed that drove their decisions.
ParticipantWe are fighting to divide the country into disfunctional warring factions so that it cannot pose a threat to our corporations in the future. As a side benefit, we’ll be able to loot it at will because the population will be too busy fighting one another to notice. We cannot leave because if we do, one of the factions will gain control and they might not let our corporations loot them anymore.
January 27, 2007 at 11:56 AM in reply to: Great article debunking the house apppreciation arguement #44284ParticipantNo matter the investment it all comes down to timing. The only difference with real estate is that it is easier for Joe McAverage to apply huge amounts of leverage.
January 27, 2007 at 8:00 AM in reply to: 1st Time Home buyer w/o a mortgage. Considering paying cash. #44277ParticipantTried turning off the bold but no dice. I guess this will just have to be a “shouting” thread…
ParticipantFord and GM have it tough for a variety of reasons; they have a lot of debt, big capital investment in US factories in union strongholds like Michigan, high labor cost, high health care costs, big pension liabilities, etc… Still, I’m keeping my fingers crossed for both of those companies. Failure of either one would be really bad for the US; speaking of which, did you guys see the Chevy Volt? I really, really hope they take that to market. That’s a leapfrog technology if ever there was one. It could steal the thunder from some of these hybrids that really don’t offer a significant advantage. TDIs are actually just as efficient (or even more) than most of the hybrids…
ParticipantPD, do you really think a seasoned politician like Gore (who defended his house and senate seats successfully many times) would be so stupid as to claim that he CREATED the internet while on the record? I just find that hard to believe, just like I find it difficult to believe that George Bush really thinks that it’s “hard to put food on your family” or any of those other goofy things he’s said. If you put these guys, any of them, under the microscope, you’ll find them saying some silly stuff. This is all just distraction politics that the real guys running the show use to keep us disorganized while they pick our pockets.
ParticipantSorry dude, but FTP, SMTP, and POP3 are all application layer and they don’t define the internet. Networking protocols are lower layer. And back to the letter from the guys that invented TCP/IP, the internet deployed in 1983, when TCP/IP replaced NCP as the network and transport layer.
Also, I have to point out that you have some dates incorrect and that you’ve also misquoted the former VP. First, the RFCs for TCP/IP weren’t published until 1981; it was near its final form in 1978, though. The work wasn’t “largely done in 1973” but rather was an ongoing design effort for several years in the mid 70s starting around 1973. Also, Gore’s Congressional service began in 1976 in the House; he served there until 1984 when he won his Senate seat.
In your last post, you misquoted Mr. Gore. His actual response was “During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.”
Note that he said Congress, which of course includes the Senate as well as the House.
Also, if you had been following this thread, you’d see that I referred to global warming as “junk science”, so I’m no Gore apologist. I just don’t need to rely on word games and “gotcha politics” for my positions, that’s all. I also don’t like to see people misquoted or history rewritten either. It may be true that Mr. Gore likes to tell whoppers (what politician doesn’t? No new taxes! No nation building! I didn’t inhale!), but in the case of the internet I’ll give him the benefit of a doubt that he just misspoke a little bit.
ParticipantThe APRANET evolved into the internet, and I do not see any significant point that divides the two technologies–i.e. it did not “become the internet” at some special point, but rather it happened through the incorporation of various technologies and standardizations such as FTP and email, and, which happened mostly during the 70’s.
Dude, you’re hopeless. I just showed you the letter from THE GUYS THAT INVENTED THE INTERNET where they write that no other public figure was as instrumental in the internet’s development as Al Gore, yet you still cling to your little fantasy that Gore is a liar and was trying to take credit for their work. And I hate to disappoint you, but the original ARPANET and our modern internet are fundamentally different at their core. The fact that you mention FTP and email show how clueless you are here, those are APPLICATIONS, not networking protocols. And note how you completely disregard the statement from THE GUYS THAT INVENTED THE INTERNET regarding the date of its deployment in 1983, when NCP was completely removed and replaced by TCP/IP on the ARPANET. Without TCP/IP, it’s not the internet. Of course if you knew what IP stood for, you might understand that.
Could Gore have said it better? Sure. But do you hold George Bush to the same high standard when he makes verbal slip-ups? Somehow I doubt it.
ParticipantThe internet came into being in 1969 at DARPA.
Ummm, no, ARPANET came into being in 1969. The internetworking protocols were added later, by Bob Kahn and Vint Cerf (more about those guys later). The internet as we know it today, was deployed in 1983 (see the Kahn/Cerf letter below).
I am sure many are aware of Gore’s habit of exaggerating his merits, or at worse is a compulsive fibber. So it’s easy to believe that he would make such a fabrication. In this case, is it true?
Ummm, did you read my post earlier in this thread? Anyway, read what Bob Kahn and Vinton Cerf (the guys who invented TCP/IP, and if you don’t know what that stands for [no looking it up on wikipedia!] then you have no business even posting on this topic) had to say about the former Vice President’s involvement in the development of the internet we all use and enjoy today. I am cutting and pasting this since you obviously didn’t follow the link I posted earlier…
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Al Gore and the InternetBy Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf
Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development.
No one person or even small group of persons exclusively “invented” the Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among people in government and the university community. But as the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore’s contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time.
Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his role. He said: “During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet.” We don’t think, as some people have argued, that Gore intended to claim he “invented” the Internet. Moreover, there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore’s initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and promoting the Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it is timely to offer our perspective.
As far back as the 1970s Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship. Though easily forgotten, now, at the time this was an unproven and controversial concept. Our work on the Internet started in 1973 and was based on even earlier work that took place in the mid-late 1960s. But the Internet, as we know it today, was not deployed until 1983. When the Internet was still in the early stages of its deployment, Congressman Gore provided intellectual leadership by helping create the vision of the potential benefits of high speed computing and communication. As an example, he sponsored hearings on how advanced technologies might be put to use in areas like coordinating the response of government agencies to natural disasters and other crises.
As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks into an “Interagency Network.” Working in a bi-partisan manner with officials in Ronald Reagan and George Bush’s administrations, Gore secured the passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991. This “Gore Act” supported the National Research and Education Network (NREN) initiative that became one of the major vehicles for the spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.
As Vice President Gore promoted building the Internet both up and out, as well as releasing the Internet from the control of the government agencies that spawned it. He served as the major administration proponent for continued investment in advanced computing and networking and private sector initiatives such as Net Day. He was and is a strong proponent of extending access to the network to schools and libraries. Today, approximately 95% of our nation’s schools are on the Internet. Gore provided much-needed political support for the speedy privatization of the Internet when the time arrived for it to become a commercially-driven operation.
There are many factors that have contributed to the Internet’s rapid growth since the later 1980s, not the least of which has been political support for its privatization and continued support for research in advanced networking technology. No one in public life has been more intellectually engaged in helping to create the climate for a thriving Internet than the Vice President. Gore has been a clear champion of this effort, both in the councils of government and with the public at large.
The Vice President deserves credit for his early recognition of high speed computing and communication and for his long-term and consistent articulation of the potential value of the Internet to American citizens and industry and, indeed, to the rest of the world.
ParticipantGreat graph jg, it brings to mind Slim Pickens at the end of “Dr. Strangelove”:
“YEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAWWWWWWWW!”
ParticipantI have to agree that there appears to be some junk science in the global warming camp. Still, I’d like to see the US become a leader in clean energy. That will be a good worldwide market in the 21st century when the Chinese and Indians get tired of choking on car exhaust fumes. If the US sponsored a new “Apollo project” for clean and renewable energy, it could pay big dividends in the next few decades just like the original one did in the 60s and 70s (computers, aircraft technology, etc…).
And whether or not humans are causing it, the planet’s climate is changing, snowpacks are shrinking, and farms are struggling for lack of water in many areas; new technologies to help manage water supplies will also be in big demand.
ParticipantYeah, he can copy Al Gore. Remember when he claimed to have fathered the internet?
“During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.”
— Al Gore
“Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development.”
— Vinton Cerf, inventor of the Internet Protocol
This article gives a good overview of the “inventing the internet” story. Just keeping us all honest here…
ParticipantMany people feel that there is no need to take care of the environment because rapture is imminent. Think of all of the people in this country (and around the world) reading those “Left Behind” books. Why worry about CO2 levels when armaggedon is just around the corner? Why take responsibility for your environment when it’s just going to be nuked tomorrow and you’ll be in heaven anyway? I know it’s hard for us to believe here on piggington (where almost everyone is a reasonable individual, regardless of political affiliation), but there are lots of Duh-mericans who buy that malarkey. You’d really need to visit a Baptist church back in my home state to get a feel for what I’m talking about, or you could check out that documentary “Jesus Camp”. I had flashbacks to my childhood watching that!
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