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January 11, 2016 at 12:09 PM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #793135January 11, 2016 at 12:05 PM in reply to: MIT Enterprise Forum for students and parents interested in STEM programs and entrepreneurial opportunities #793134
bearishgurl
Participant[quote=flyer]Much of what you are saying is true, BG, but, over half of our kids friends who don’t want to move out of San Diego did receive college degrees, and then decided they didn’t want relocate for jobs.
They can’t get the jobs they want here, and they don’t want to move. Not a pretty picture for them or their parents.
In addition, others who have left for jobs have not been able to get back with comparable jobs, let alone buy homes when they do return.
Just passing on what we’re seeing.[/quote]
You state here that your friends’ kids didn’t want to leave SD for a good job in their field. What about other parts of CA? If they accept positions in other CA coastal counties which pay higher than SD, they can save up money to buy a house and sell it 5-10 years later for a profit, giving them a downpayment to buy a house in (lesser expensive) SD County.
An engineer (civil, soils, petroleum, wastewater, etc) can make a LOT of money anywhere in CA, even Fresno or along US 395 (on the other side of the sierras).
If they take their first job in “flyover country” and even eventually buy a house there, they won’t likely be able to recover enough upon sale a few years later to return to SD for a job and buy a house. But they CAN save up money because their housing expenses will be lower, whether they’re buying or renting. I would advise them if they do this with the goal of returning to SD to NOT buy a house there but instead rent.
This assumes they relocate for a job to the southwest, midwest or south (NOT the rockies or most of the eastern seaboard [coastal] as it’s too expensive to live in those cities relative to what they will make there).
SD companies will hire experienced people from other locales. I would think having family in SD would be a bonus to a SD job applicant but most employers with good FT job openings here want experience and you have to get that somewhere if you don’t have any.
SD County is glutted with experienced and overqualified workers for their jobs and also has a lot of VERY experienced “retirees” who will work on an as-needed basis (with no benefits) and need little to zero training. This is very attractive to most local employers.
January 11, 2016 at 11:06 AM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #793128Participant[quote=harvey]. . . Here’s an actual fact: I did have a position that offered a DB pension. I was an officer in the US Army, commissioned through a full ROTC scholarship – a process that requires a few qualifications! . . .[/quote]harvey, did you have the required number of years of service to actually vest in your DB pension?
If not, why not?
Are you currently collecting military retirement, and if so, at what age did you begin collecting it?
If not, will you collect military reserve retirement at age 60?
YOU are one of the biggest complainers (if not THE biggest complainer) on this board regarding others’ DB pensions they earned over decades of service. Or any other gubment benefit someone else is eligible for, for that matter. The Piggs need to know whether to consider you the pot ….. or the kettle.
Yes, YOUR personal situation is absolutely relevant here! Not sure if your continual attacks on gov workers’ pay and pensions are just envy rearing its ugly head … or what exactly …. It’s just weird.
January 10, 2016 at 10:42 PM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #793119Participant[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]
If you own property, then you benefit from the services provided via property taxes. What would the value of your property be without a local school district? How much would it be worth without roads, sidewalks, streetlights, local parks, sanitation services, police and fire protection, etc.?
This is what’s so messed up about many people who oppose taxes. They have no idea how these tax payments end up benefiting them. [/quote]
I don’t know anyone who opposes paying their ‘fair’ share of taxes, that’s not the issue here.[/quote]The reason you don’t “know anyone” opposed to paying their “fair share” of taxes, paramount is perhaps because the neighborhoods you have been living in have been built in the last 15 years or so.
Try living with a neighbor on one side who pays ~$800 year in property tax, a neighbor on the other side who pays ~$400 year in property tax and another neighbor directly across the street who pays ~$650 year in property tax while you cough up ~$4400 year in property tax.
It is disheartening, to say the least. Such are the effects of Prop 13 and its progeny, Prop 58.
The sheer “inequality” of Prop 13 (and its progeny) are VERY MUCH “the issue here.”
January 10, 2016 at 10:05 PM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #793118Participant[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]Your thoughts? How do you see DC pensions actually working, over the long term, in real life?[/quote]
Here’s my plan, see if you can follow along:
– People save for their own retirement.
– When they retire, they live off their savings.
– If their savings isn’t adequate for the lifestyle they would like to have, they adjust their lifestyle.
Here’s the part that may be especially difficult for you:
– Retiree’s don’t take governments to court, demanding more money forcing existing public services to be cut or eliminated because the retirees failed to plan properly decades prior.
It’s complicated, I know. Hard to follow without all the compensation formulas, spiking, guaranteed returns, “13th payments” and the long list of other shenanigans. It’s really hard to get one’s head around the idea that people just save their own money and that’s what they get and they don’t get to ask for more later.
You see, “DC pension” that you describe as some bogeyman is just a savings account.
But all of the Piggs, save two, have been able to grasp it. Maybe someday you will also.[/quote]
harvey (aka pri_dk), if you think there are only TWO Piggs who grasp this concept, you need to put on your thinking cap. Let me clue you in, here. There are several more Piggs here who are currently working FT (for the gubment) under the premise that they will eventually be due a pension under a “defined benefit plan.”
I’m truly sorry for you that YOU DIDN’T CHOOSE to attempt to “qualify” for one of these eligible positions in line for a(n eventual) DB plan upon retirement. However, that decision was YOUR CHOICE! You COULD have elected to “jump thru the proper hoops” in attempt to get hired … alas but you didn’t! Thusly, you have NO RIGHT at this late date to condemn those persons who have served their qualified (faithful) service so as to earn their current pensions.
January 10, 2016 at 9:46 PM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #793115Participant[quote=phaster][quote=livinincali]The one benefit of defined benefit contribution plans, retention, isn’t worth the risks, the frauds, the vote buying, and everything else it enables. That’s the bottom line. The rewards (reduced training costs retention, etc.) don’t outweigh the risks and therefore they should be scrapped..[/quote]Agree! And after doing some research, seems the best way forward is to follow the example set by the Thrift Saving Plan (a federal government 401K style program, that can’t be corrupted/mismanaged like what happend at CalPERS or as what is happening with the SD pension program)
https://www.tsp.gov/investmentfunds/fund…
“The Thrift Savings Plan, used by millions of federal workers, is like a 401(k), except it’s a lot cheaper. Last year it charged an average expense ratio of a mere 0.03%. That means just $3 in fees for $10,000 in savings, or $30 for a $100,000 portfolio.
John Turner, an economist and director of the Pension Policy Center and a former federal worker himself, said “Unless they’re advanced investors, I think they should leave their funds in the TSP because it’s simple and it’s easy enough that most investors can do it and do it well”
http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/01/retireme…
[/quote]W-a-a-a-ay back in the day, I was a payroll clerk employed by the Dept the Defense and can tell you with certainty that the TSP was the best plan in existence to supplement the DB plans for CSRS or FERS members (at that time). Any Federal employee who retires today (or in recent years) and elects to transfer their ENTIRE TSP investment to another vehicle upon retirement is a fool.
‘Nuff said.
January 10, 2016 at 9:05 PM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #793116ParticipantUh, the Federal TSP plan is technically a “457 plan.”
January 10, 2016 at 8:20 PM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #793113ParticipantUhhhhh, phaster, may I ask what you DO for a living?
Inquiring minds would be interested to know.
January 10, 2016 at 5:56 PM in reply to: MIT Enterprise Forum for students and parents interested in STEM programs and entrepreneurial opportunities #793105ParticipantWhen a newly-minted college graduate living with mom and/or dad has a backyard pool/jacuzzi with cabana and built-in BBQ with which to entertain 20 or more of their “best friends” twice monthly (the ones from back in HS who are still hanging around “home” doing nothing with their lives), it’s kind of hard to “envision” moving into a semi-run-down small apt in an unfamiliar expensive city to accept your first “real” job.
I suspect that is the “real” problem with flyer’s friend’s kids because that is the problem with my kids’ friends who stayed behind after HS instead of accepting an offer of admission to university (preferably 100 miles away or more) and getting on with their lives. People, your kids will still be with you at age 30+ (possibly with their own kids in tow) if you allow it. Absolutely NONE of my youngest kid’s friends from HS who stayed behind after HS graduation have even finished one semester of CC (15 units) yet … when they should be going into their second semester of sophomore year at the end of this month. Why? They’re having too much fun and entertainment and pulling frequent all-nighters with all their old “HS homies,” most of whom they have known since they were 5 or 6 years old, lol.
It’s kind of hard to be a FT student and pass your your college classes with that kind of lifestyle.
January 10, 2016 at 5:42 PM in reply to: MIT Enterprise Forum for students and parents interested in STEM programs and entrepreneurial opportunities #793104Participant[quote=flyer]From my experience with our kids and their friends, getting the degree is a breeze compared to the challenges they’ll find in the job market–getting the job they want–where they want it.
Our kids were able to stay in CA, but many of their friends have been shocked to find they had to move out of state–in order to make their education pay off–even with the “best” degrees. Imo, parents need to tell their kids the diploma doesn’t come with a guarantee.[/quote]
flyer, it’s not the end of the world if a young twenty-something Native Californian has to move out of state for their first job after college graduation. They are still young enough to get a little experience under their belts and get hired back in Cali at a later date.
Surprisingly, CA companies seem to recruit nationwide even though there are more than enough prospective college-graduate applicants who already reside in CA in whatever field the company is posting a job vacancy in. This is likely because many of these employers want experience and as a newly minted college graduate, you can’t get that experience working PT at Starbucks and playing video games in mom and/or dad’s back bedroom because you don’t want to broaden your job search to companies out of state for your first “real” job.
I don’t feel sorry for any of these young newly-minted college graduates. All of them majored in a field of their choosing, whether or not it was a marketable major. Many did not bother working during college or even accepting any internships (to get experience in their field). Many borrowed too much in student loans because they went to a school which was too expensive for them when at all times, they had cheaper alternatives available to them to obtain a same or similar degree. Many are too picky about where their first job is located and what kind of job they will accept when they can ill afford to be. And many simply don’t want to leave mom and/or dad’s house after college graduation because it is “too comfortable” for them and they are “accustomed to” the lifestyle which it affords them.
ParticipantIn my travels, I just haven’t seen the animosity FIH describes towards immigrants living and working locally. The Native born in those areas (and there are hundreds of areas) aren’t going to do these jobs themselves, NOR do they want their kids working there. Many in the older generations HAVE done these jobs in the past and even retired from jobs in the above industries. That’s all the more reason why they want their kids gone to college ASAP after HS. They don’t want them to have that kind of life.
Even some parents/grandparents who own longtime family farms passed down through generations do not want their kids (or all their kids) to follow in their footsteps because this lifestyle just isn’t very financially viable anymore without heavy dependence on government subsidies from year to year.
ParticipantHow do you think all this stuff gets into our supermarkets, brian? Even food CA doesn’t produce (or doesn’t produce enough of for its own population?
Red dots are packing plants. Who is working there?:
http://www.tysonfoods.com/Our-Story/Locations.aspx
Who produces and packs the beef for at least 80% of the restaurants in the US?
http://swiftbeef.com/contact-us/
Red dots are manufacturing facilities. Who is working there?:
http://www.conagrafoodscareers.com/Media/pdf/ConAgraRecruitMap010915.pdf
Who is tending US tobacco fields and working in their factories?
Who is picking and processing apples in Washington for export and domestic use?
http://fruitgrowersnews.com/downloads/2012/WAC_Econ_ImpactReport_Final_082912.pdf
Who is working in the fishing industry? And who is cultivating and processing the grapes and wine in CA? How about all the crops in CA’s San Joaquin Valley which feed the entire nation? And the local egg ranches from state to state? Except for a portion of the fisheries, ALL of the above plants are located in “rural” or semi-rural” areas, brian.
Those are but just a few examples.
There are not enough American boomers left in these areas still working FT to staff these plants. Even less of Gen X stayed back in their hometowns after HS in past decades because more of them attended college. And do you actually believe that US-born Gen Y stayed in their rural hometowns after HS to staff manufacturing plants??
Think again. The majority of Gen Y are currently in college or have already graduated with a degree so have no need to return to their small hometowns in flyover country to work for next to nothing. A portion of rural Gen Y male HS graduates are currently working for Halliburton staffing oil wells (fracking industry) and were recently making over $150K per year (plus room/board). I have no idea how much they’re making since the price of oil plummeted but most are/were saving 99% of their salaries and moving constantly for their employer wherever they are needed.
Hint: the native countries of the employee base for US farming and manufacturing concerns varies wildly from location to location. It may not necessarily be what you would expect.
FIH, I do think of you as “worldly,” yes . . . but you can’t see much of this great nation from the window seat of a plane en route from large city to large city. You need to take some time out of your busy life to hit the road, bro . . . I think you would learn a LOT by doing so! Your “armchair surfing” doesn’t compare to a (more authentic) boots-on-the-ground experience. Not by a long shot :=)
After going over Hoover Dam, you can start your Route 66 journey thru flyover America right here:
[img_assist|nid=25682|title=US 93 just over NV/AZ border|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=382|height=307]
Or from SoCal, start here:
https://foursquare.com/v/i15–i40-junction/4ca1378f8afca093e09b1916
Wait until it warms up and take a month off! I think you will find the face of US farming/manufacturing has changed exponentially in the past 25-35 years (depending on industry).
January 6, 2016 at 11:01 AM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #793010Participant[quote=phaster]
[snip irrelevant commentary and conjecture]
-snip-[/quote]
uhh, phaster, nice try but if you think this bleached whale “people-of-Walmart” couple you depicted here watching an implosion from their (polluted backyard?) in rural Nevada are representative of SD City and County retired workers, you need to see your eye doctor, pronto.
For the most part, we are fitter and trimmer than the Gen Y college-student set who comes back “home” for the holidays to work out at the gym we work out in all year-round!
And the only reason we can exist (or co-exist with a side gig) on our paltry city/county pensions is because our living expenses are relatively low in comparison to the “worker bee” currently raising a family. The COL is lowest for those older (WWII gen) members who retired prior to 2002 and thus purchased their current residences well below $100K.
Contrary to popular belief, SD city/county retirees don’t live lavish lifestyles on “golden pensions,” people …. NO, not even former sworn staff with more generous “Class C” retirements. We live in neighborhoods and houses most of you worker bees wouldn’t even bother getting off the freeway to look at in PAID FOR houses (or nearly so).
January 6, 2016 at 10:36 AM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #793009ParticipantUhh, phaster? You’re trolling now.
I don’t think you would be very happy as a current SD city or county “worker-bee” who is subject to mandatory payroll deductions of 7-14% of gross pay (depending on age) to fund their DB pensions. This doesn’t even take into account any mandatory payroll deductions they have for union dues and healthplans for any family members they are covering OR any voluntary payroll deductions they have in place to fund their 457 plans.
The average SD city/county “worker bee” (w/ 5-20 years service) currently makes just $15 – $25 hr.
Do you think YOU (phaster) could live comfortably in SD County on your net pay if YOU were a current employee in one of these systems??
Thankfully, I never had to find out as I had a high-earning spouse to help with living expenses while employed as a “civil servant” minion.
January 1, 2016 at 7:13 PM in reply to: How will unfunded “pensions” affect the local economy? #792922ParticipantI got sidetracked but am still studying the voluminous long-awaiting PERB decision on City unions ULPs to cause the effects of voter-approved Prop B to be nullified/repealed.
Here’s a (rather dated) background link I just found on the subject:
https://ballotpedia.org/San_Diego_Pension_Reform_Initiative,_Proposition_B_%28June_2012%29
And here’s a (rather entertaining) background thread I found on the subject :=)
http://piggington.com/ot_public_employee_unions_attack_the_city_of_san_diegoprop_b?page=1
I’ll be back in a few days (or less) when I’ve had a chance to finish and properly notate the entire Decision. I have to say that it is really great to at last see something of this magnitude take place in the golden state. It’s been a long haul, to say the least.
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