[bearishgurl]

Your post is spot on, TG. I can’t even remember how many former co-workers (law enforcement types from several agencies) I worked with who retired to Idaho with their generous CSRS, FERS, SDCERA, PERS, SDCERS, LACERA, etc pensions, who sold their (often modest) homes here in CA and purchased slopeside or acreage with a view to forever in Idaho to “retire” in. Californians (predominately So. Californians) have boosted Idaho’s tax based immeasurably the last 20 years and simultaneously abandoned contributing to their home state’s tax base (CA).

The entire base of the Sun Valley ski area and surrounds and the smaller resorts surrounding Coeur d’Alene are what they are today ONLY due to the huge influx of Californians with “money.” Before Californians retired there “en masse,” Idaho was a rural, windy outpost “whose” few ski resorts couldn’t compete with CO’s, UT’s or CA’s due to lack of infrastructure.

************************************************

OTOH, I am acquainted with these recent (last 10 years) “domestic transplants” to the SD area:

1. Several native CA sons/daughters (and their spouses and children) who moved back here (due to inability to support themselves in another state) after defecting from CA during the “millenium boom” and prior. They are now 30-40 years old, living in mom and/or dad’s back bdrms trying to survive (and have their kids enrolled in the schools they attended in their old “stomping grounds”).

2. Long time former residents who left CA to move to another state to take care of an ailing relative who has now died. They are now back in SD after an absence of 10+ years and have to start all over again, not necessarily young anymore or with a “generous inheritance.”

3. Minor grandchildren, nieces and nephews of longtime SD residents whose parents living out of the state or country cannot support them and so “dropped them off” into the “stable relative’s” home.

4. 60 yo native Chula Vistan couple who moved to another state in 1992, purchased a house, took equity out of it and subsequently lost it to foreclosure in May of this year. One is working but they are struggling here living with friends due to their parents being deceased and their siblings left the area.

5. 75+ yo “recent” immigrants who are still living with their sponsor-children but have managed to qualify for an SSI payment in their own right. Upon entering the country, they were already over age 65 and thus never contributed any FICA payments to SS.

6. 55 year-old single female who relocated from another state with her (now adult) son, who is a lifetime SSD recipient but has no visible physical disabilities. She has never worked and brought her Section 8 voucher with her. The son is now working in another county and on his own. With her voucher, she has managed to rent 2 br units in 92118, 91941 and currently resides in 92128 with the voucher paying all but about $230 of her rent.

The fifth category, particularly irks me (and is not exclusive to CA), since these immigrants’ “sponsor” swore under oath to financially support them the rest of their lives as a condition of their permanent residency (issuance of “green card”). There is obviously a loophole in the immigration law where a sponsor can later state to the INS that they are indigent themselves now and/or their home has been foreclosed on and they can no longer support their relative that they sponsored. The relative can then apply for and qualify for the SSI under a separate address than their sponsor. They can then continue to receive SSI checks at that location while moving back in with their sponsors to take care of the house and kids (the sole reason they were brought over here in the first place). I have no doubt that some of these SSI recipients never left the home of their sponsors but are using another address to receive their SSI payments.

The list goes on. In my little “microcosm,” I just don’t see “productive taxpayers” entering CA, only leaving it :=(

[bearishgurl]

Your post is spot on, TG. I can’t even remember how many former co-workers (law enforcement types from several agencies) I worked with who retired to Idaho with their generous CSRS, FERS, SDCERA, PERS, SDCERS, LACERA, etc pensions, who sold their (often modest) homes here in CA and purchased slopeside or acreage with a view to forever in Idaho to “retire” in. Californians (predominately So. Californians) have boosted Idaho’s tax based immeasurably the last 20 years and simultaneously abandoned contributing to their home state’s tax base (CA).

The entire base of the Sun Valley ski area and surrounds and the smaller resorts surrounding Coeur d’Alene are what they are today ONLY due to the huge influx of Californians with “money.” Before Californians retired there “en masse,” Idaho was a rural, windy outpost “whose” few ski resorts couldn’t compete with CO’s, UT’s or CA’s due to lack of infrastructure.

************************************************

OTOH, I am acquainted with these recent (last 10 years) “domestic transplants” to the SD area:

1. Several native CA sons/daughters (and their spouses and children) who moved back here (due to inability to support themselves in another state) after defecting from CA during the “millenium boom” and prior. They are now 30-40 years old, living in mom and/or dad’s back bdrms trying to survive (and have their kids enrolled in the schools they attended in their old “stomping grounds”).

2. Long time former residents who left CA to move to another state to take care of an ailing relative who has now died. They are now back in SD after an absence of 10+ years and have to start all over again, not necessarily young anymore or with a “generous inheritance.”

3. Minor grandchildren, nieces and nephews of longtime SD residents whose parents living out of the state or country cannot support them and so “dropped them off” into the “stable relative’s” home.

4. 60 yo native Chula Vistan couple who moved to another state in 1992, purchased a house, took equity out of it and subsequently lost it to foreclosure in May of this year. One is working but they are struggling here living with friends due to their parents being deceased and their siblings left the area.

5. 75+ yo “recent” immigrants who are still living with their sponsor-children but have managed to qualify for an SSI payment in their own right. Upon entering the country, they were already over age 65 and thus never contributed any FICA payments to SS.

6. 55 year-old single female who relocated from another state with her (now adult) son, who is a lifetime SSD recipient but has no visible physical disabilities. She has never worked and brought her Section 8 voucher with her. The son is now working in another county and on his own. With her voucher, she has managed to rent 2 br units in 92118, 91941 and currently resides in 92128 with the voucher paying all but about $230 of her rent.

The fifth category, particularly irks me (and is not exclusive to CA), since these immigrants’ “sponsor” swore under oath to financially support them the rest of their lives as a condition of their permanent residency (issuance of “green card”). There is obviously a loophole in the immigration law where a sponsor can later state to the INS that they are indigent themselves now and/or their home has been foreclosed on and they can no longer support their relative that they sponsored. The relative can then apply for and qualify for the SSI under a separate address than their sponsor. They can then continue to receive SSI checks at that location while moving back in with their sponsors to take care of the house and kids (the sole reason they were brought over here in the first place). I have no doubt that some of these SSI recipients never left the home of their sponsors but are using another address to receive their SSI payments.

The list goes on. In my little “microcosm,” I just don’t see “productive taxpayers” entering CA, only leaving it :=(

[bearishgurl]

Your post is spot on, TG. I can’t even remember how many former co-workers (law enforcement types from several agencies) I worked with who retired to Idaho with their generous CSRS, FERS, SDCERA, PERS, SDCERS, LACERA, etc pensions, who sold their (often modest) homes here in CA and purchased slopeside or acreage with a view to forever in Idaho to “retire” in. Californians (predominately So. Californians) have boosted Idaho’s tax based immeasurably the last 20 years and simultaneously abandoned contributing to their home state’s tax base (CA).

The entire base of the Sun Valley ski area and surrounds and the smaller resorts surrounding Coeur d’Alene are what they are today ONLY due to the huge influx of Californians with “money.” Before Californians retired there “en masse,” Idaho was a rural, windy outpost “whose” few ski resorts couldn’t compete with CO’s, UT’s or CA’s due to lack of infrastructure.

************************************************

OTOH, I am acquainted with these recent (last 10 years) “domestic transplants” to the SD area:

1. Several native CA sons/daughters (and their spouses and children) who moved back here (due to inability to support themselves in another state) after defecting from CA during the “millenium boom” and prior. They are now 30-40 years old, living in mom and/or dad’s back bdrms trying to survive (and have their kids enrolled in the schools they attended in their old “stomping grounds”).

2. Long time former residents who left CA to move to another state to take care of an ailing relative who has now died. They are now back in SD after an absence of 10+ years and have to start all over again, not necessarily young anymore or with a “generous inheritance.”

3. Minor grandchildren, nieces and nephews of longtime SD residents whose parents living out of the state or country cannot support them and so “dropped them off” into the “stable relative’s” home.

4. 60 yo native Chula Vistan couple who moved to another state in 1992, purchased a house, took equity out of it and subsequently lost it to foreclosure in May of this year. One is working but they are struggling here living with friends due to their parents being deceased and their siblings left the area.

5. 75+ yo “recent” immigrants who are still living with their sponsor-children but have managed to qualify for an SSI payment in their own right. Upon entering the country, they were already over age 65 and thus never contributed any FICA payments to SS.

6. 55 year-old single female who relocated from another state with her (now adult) son, who is a lifetime SSD recipient but has no visible physical disabilities. She has never worked and brought her Section 8 voucher with her. The son is now working in another county and on his own. With her voucher, she has managed to rent 2 br units in 92118, 91941 and currently resides in 92128 with the voucher paying all but about $230 of her rent.

The fifth category, particularly irks me (and is not exclusive to CA), since these immigrants’ “sponsor” swore under oath to financially support them the rest of their lives as a condition of their permanent residency (issuance of “green card”). There is obviously a loophole in the immigration law where a sponsor can later state to the INS that they are indigent themselves now and/or their home has been foreclosed on and they can no longer support their relative that they sponsored. The relative can then apply for and qualify for the SSI under a separate address than their sponsor. They can then continue to receive SSI checks at that location while moving back in with their sponsors to take care of the house and kids (the sole reason they were brought over here in the first place). I have no doubt that some of these SSI recipients never left the home of their sponsors but are using another address to receive their SSI payments.

The list goes on. In my little “microcosm,” I just don’t see “productive taxpayers” entering CA, only leaving it :=(

[bearishgurl]

So true about SF. My kid who works in SOMA is doing VERY well and just graduated from college in May (finished studies last December)! The city is just teeming with young people and is one of the few economic “bright lights” in CA right now.

[bearishgurl]

So true about SF. My kid who works in SOMA is doing VERY well and just graduated from college in May (finished studies last December)! The city is just teeming with young people and is one of the few economic “bright lights” in CA right now.

[bearishgurl]

So true about SF. My kid who works in SOMA is doing VERY well and just graduated from college in May (finished studies last December)! The city is just teeming with young people and is one of the few economic “bright lights” in CA right now.

[bearishgurl]

So true about SF. My kid who works in SOMA is doing VERY well and just graduated from college in May (finished studies last December)! The city is just teeming with young people and is one of the few economic “bright lights” in CA right now.

[bearishgurl]

So true about SF. My kid who works in SOMA is doing VERY well and just graduated from college in May (finished studies last December)! The city is just teeming with young people and is one of the few economic “bright lights” in CA right now.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdsurfer]Thanks for chiming in Ctr70. I feel like you could probably get the home above for around 220k in Escondido and it might not rent for 1850, but close to it if I’m not mistaken. Is there a reason that 91910 is that much better? Just curious your take because I’m not familiar with that area. Thanks again for you sharing your insight.[/quote]

sdsurfer, it may not be “better” but 91910 is only 10-12 miles from dtn SD (depending on neighborhood) and also much cooler than Esco. It is NOT freeway-dependent to SD dtn and metro area. In addition, many families in which one or both parents grew up in 91910 remain in the area to raise their families. They may not all be qualified to buy but they need rentals.

Escondido is really not located in the SD metro area but is an interior city in its own right.

The RE in 91910 is more expensive than 92025 because it has a more desirable and convenient location.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdsurfer]Thanks for chiming in Ctr70. I feel like you could probably get the home above for around 220k in Escondido and it might not rent for 1850, but close to it if I’m not mistaken. Is there a reason that 91910 is that much better? Just curious your take because I’m not familiar with that area. Thanks again for you sharing your insight.[/quote]

sdsurfer, it may not be “better” but 91910 is only 10-12 miles from dtn SD (depending on neighborhood) and also much cooler than Esco. It is NOT freeway-dependent to SD dtn and metro area. In addition, many families in which one or both parents grew up in 91910 remain in the area to raise their families. They may not all be qualified to buy but they need rentals.

Escondido is really not located in the SD metro area but is an interior city in its own right.

The RE in 91910 is more expensive than 92025 because it has a more desirable and convenient location.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdsurfer]Thanks for chiming in Ctr70. I feel like you could probably get the home above for around 220k in Escondido and it might not rent for 1850, but close to it if I’m not mistaken. Is there a reason that 91910 is that much better? Just curious your take because I’m not familiar with that area. Thanks again for you sharing your insight.[/quote]

sdsurfer, it may not be “better” but 91910 is only 10-12 miles from dtn SD (depending on neighborhood) and also much cooler than Esco. It is NOT freeway-dependent to SD dtn and metro area. In addition, many families in which one or both parents grew up in 91910 remain in the area to raise their families. They may not all be qualified to buy but they need rentals.

Escondido is really not located in the SD metro area but is an interior city in its own right.

The RE in 91910 is more expensive than 92025 because it has a more desirable and convenient location.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdsurfer]Thanks for chiming in Ctr70. I feel like you could probably get the home above for around 220k in Escondido and it might not rent for 1850, but close to it if I’m not mistaken. Is there a reason that 91910 is that much better? Just curious your take because I’m not familiar with that area. Thanks again for you sharing your insight.[/quote]

sdsurfer, it may not be “better” but 91910 is only 10-12 miles from dtn SD (depending on neighborhood) and also much cooler than Esco. It is NOT freeway-dependent to SD dtn and metro area. In addition, many families in which one or both parents grew up in 91910 remain in the area to raise their families. They may not all be qualified to buy but they need rentals.

Escondido is really not located in the SD metro area but is an interior city in its own right.

The RE in 91910 is more expensive than 92025 because it has a more desirable and convenient location.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdsurfer]Thanks for chiming in Ctr70. I feel like you could probably get the home above for around 220k in Escondido and it might not rent for 1850, but close to it if I’m not mistaken. Is there a reason that 91910 is that much better? Just curious your take because I’m not familiar with that area. Thanks again for you sharing your insight.[/quote]

sdsurfer, it may not be “better” but 91910 is only 10-12 miles from dtn SD (depending on neighborhood) and also much cooler than Esco. It is NOT freeway-dependent to SD dtn and metro area. In addition, many families in which one or both parents grew up in 91910 remain in the area to raise their families. They may not all be qualified to buy but they need rentals.

Escondido is really not located in the SD metro area but is an interior city in its own right.

The RE in 91910 is more expensive than 92025 because it has a more desirable and convenient location.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=ctr70] . . . 91910 is a C+/B- neighborhood IMO, I don’t know all of it, maybe parts of it are B if you were generous. “A” neighborhoods are places like Carmel Valley, Encinitas, Rancho Bernardo, La Jolla, Point Loma, Del Mar, etc… “B” neighborhoods are San Carlos, Clairemont, Mira Mesa, etc.. “C” neighborhoods (and below.. and there is a wide variance from C- to C+) are places like El Cajon, Lemon Grove, Spring Valley, Vista, most of O-side, Escondido). Of course there are parts of places like El Cajon, etc.. in the hiils that are more “B”.[/quote]

These are MY ratings regards to rentals in metro, south and east county only:

“A:” 91901, 91902, 91910 (part), 91911 (part), 91913 (part) 91914, 91915 (part), 91941 (part), 91978 (part), 92019, 92021 (part), 92037, 92101 (part), 92103, 94104 (part), 92106, 92107, 92108 (part), 92109, 92110 (part), 92111 (part) 92115 (part), 92116 (part), 92118, 92119 (part), 92120 (part), 92121, 92122, 92124 (part), 92126 (part), 92130, 92131 (part).

“B:” 91910 (part), 91911 (part), 91913 (part), 91915 (part), 91932, 91941 (part), 91945 (part), 91950 (part), 91977 (part), 91978 (part), 92021 (part), 92040 (part), 92071 (part), 92101 (part), 92102 (part), 92104 (part), 92108 (part), 92110 (part), 92111 (part), 92115 (part) 92117 (part), 92119 (part), 92120 (part), 92123, 92124 (part), 92126 (part), 92131 (part), 92139, 92154 (part).

“C: 91911 (part), 91945 (part), 91950 (part), 91977 (part), 92020, 92040 (part), 92071 (part), 92102 (part), 92105, 92111 (part), 92113, 92114, 92115 (part), 92154 (part).

Some “entirely A” areas DO have “B” and/or “Section 8” complexes or “B” blocks but it is not enough to rate part of the area a “B.”

Many “B” areas are saddled with “Section 8 complexes” but are still good areas. In regards to North County, I don’t see some of the areas you mention the same as you do. For instance:

92025: A, B and C (large swath of low income)

92056: B and C (large swath of low income)

92064: A and B (pockets of low income)

92069: A, B and C (low income and lack of zoning in pockets)

92083: A, B and C (large swath of low income)

92128: A and B (lots of fixed income and low income)

92129: A, B and C (lots of low income in pockets)

North County is by no means insulated from poorly-built *newish* “ghettos,” low income residents or crime.

[quote=ctr70]Bearishgirl has never owned a condo but seems to know they all have special assessments and plumbing problems:) I have looked at, talked to and reviewed hoas of dozens and dozens recently and many have not not had special assessments in decades or had very minor ones. But I’m sure there are some bad ones out there…[/quote]

ctr, I don’t need to own a condo to notice all the lawsuits HOA’s have generated in the last 30 years (mostly CD COA’s). Many of the outcomes of these suits didn’t benefit the owners very much in the end. For instance, after 5+ years of lit on the PBT issue, SFR and PUD owners in SD County ended up with about $4400 each. Condo owners ended up with even less. Many of these recipients sold their unit without making repairs. Some HOA’s couldn’t afford to make repairs. The reason I’m so “bearish” on condos is because no “real” property comes with their purchase. The buyer is just purchasing a “fractional interest” of an entire subdivision. The future health and value of each unit depends wholly on the health and capable mgmt or the entire HOA and also on the degree in which owners turn their units over to rentals. With an SFR (unencumbered by an HOA), an owner “has control” over everything about it except the local zoning (known at the time of purchase) or area gentrification (unknown). I wouldn’t buy something for which its future value was completely dependent on people and things I couldn’t control, but that is just me.

[quote=ctr70]Contacting owners direct of vacant properties is a “needle in the haystack” type of strategy and takes a ton of time and effort, using things like direct mail, and you may or may not find something after spending a ton of time most people don’t have. But if you have all that time and could get it to work it would be good. Bearishgirl have you ever bought a property that way? It’s something talked a lot by the “gurus” in books but I don’t meet many non-full time professional buyers that have ever done it. And most of those owners still know what their property is worth and won’t let it go for 20% under it’s current appraised value.[/quote]

No I have not bought any properties this way but have called local owners on behalf of all-cash-buyer friends or visited them with the interested cash buyers in tow. Our offers were good in light of the current condition of the properties but this was 3-4 years ago and owners were still in denial about their property values deteriorating further. We didn’t make any deals and the two properties I’m thinking of are still vacant. One owner has his son visit every couple of mos with a tractor mower to avoid any more weed-abatement citations. The other owner’s spouse won’t let him sell the property as it was hers before they got married. The “weed” property is encumbered for about $28K and the “spouse” property is free and clear (needs a new subfloor, block wall rebuilt, kitchen cabs and a few other things). Both have property taxes of =<$350 yr. So the motivation is very low to sell if they don't need the money right now. Both were former rentals (1500+ sf on 7K to 9K lots) but have been let go to waste so are not currently habitable for tenants. ctr, you might be SHOCKED how many 55+ yo unemployed or partially-employed tradesmen there are out there with adequate CASH to purchase an SFR like this (or purchase with a like-minded equity partner)!! Some are COMBING the area they grew up in and KNOW it like the back of their (weathered) hands. In order to do this successfully, you have to know an area intimately. It helps to already be acquainted the the owner and even their previous tenants and to know the owner's personal situation and motivations. If you don't personally live in the area and walk it, I think it would be hard to do this. [quote=ctr70]And bearishgirl you need to write a book about how you fix these major fixers for less than $5,000:) Apparently all the landlords and investors out there (many contractors themselves) have to spend at least $15k min to fix up most fixer upper SFR rentals they buy right now to make them rent ready. Go visit a few dozen fixers with a yellow pad and cost it out, they have a lot of stuff wrong with them. And it all adds up. But who knows maybe you could do it with all your experience and doing everything yourself, but not many people can. . . . But yeah if you know how to do that stuff or like it, you can save a little money.[/quote] ctr, didn't you know one of my arms has a yellow pad on a clipboard dangling from it with my trusty 1977 Texas Instruments" calculator clamped on?? ;=] ctr, I have recently "acquired" over 500 red brick (for a walkway extension), 55 "new" 12 x 12" tile (for a walk-in closet), abt 350 sf of "lightly used" 18 x 18" tile and a 32" mahogany "fire-door" (in exc cond) with hdwre, and 3 boxes of unused matching Dal-Tile wall tile. Also 6 almost full gal of used ext paint in brown and grey (for fencing) and 3 new bathroom drains. That's just from "bartering" and "free" stuff people had to get rid of! Not to mention that I haven't paid for a plant or shrub in 10 years! There is also spec-builder surplus, overstock pallets at big box stores, discontinued markdowns (make store mgr an offer), craigslist, undelivered special-order windows and doors on clearance, friends cleaning their garages/backyards, etc. These are rentals we're talking about here. As an investment-property owner, you can’t be picky about color, style, model, etc. You also need to have the time to DIY (however “boring” this may sound) and use contractors or handyman very minimally (i.e. to get a new electrical panel signed off).

There’s no shame in being a scavenger if you can use the item. You’re helping someone clean out their own property and bldg mat’ls can be expensive.

As soon as I finish this last headache of a project, I’m going to get up from this desk and get to work!!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=ctr70] . . . 91910 is a C+/B- neighborhood IMO, I don’t know all of it, maybe parts of it are B if you were generous. “A” neighborhoods are places like Carmel Valley, Encinitas, Rancho Bernardo, La Jolla, Point Loma, Del Mar, etc… “B” neighborhoods are San Carlos, Clairemont, Mira Mesa, etc.. “C” neighborhoods (and below.. and there is a wide variance from C- to C+) are places like El Cajon, Lemon Grove, Spring Valley, Vista, most of O-side, Escondido). Of course there are parts of places like El Cajon, etc.. in the hiils that are more “B”.[/quote]

These are MY ratings regards to rentals in metro, south and east county only:

“A:” 91901, 91902, 91910 (part), 91911 (part), 91913 (part) 91914, 91915 (part), 91941 (part), 91978 (part), 92019, 92021 (part), 92037, 92101 (part), 92103, 94104 (part), 92106, 92107, 92108 (part), 92109, 92110 (part), 92111 (part) 92115 (part), 92116 (part), 92118, 92119 (part), 92120 (part), 92121, 92122, 92124 (part), 92126 (part), 92130, 92131 (part).

“B:” 91910 (part), 91911 (part), 91913 (part), 91915 (part), 91932, 91941 (part), 91945 (part), 91950 (part), 91977 (part), 91978 (part), 92021 (part), 92040 (part), 92071 (part), 92101 (part), 92102 (part), 92104 (part), 92108 (part), 92110 (part), 92111 (part), 92115 (part) 92117 (part), 92119 (part), 92120 (part), 92123, 92124 (part), 92126 (part), 92131 (part), 92139, 92154 (part).

“C: 91911 (part), 91945 (part), 91950 (part), 91977 (part), 92020, 92040 (part), 92071 (part), 92102 (part), 92105, 92111 (part), 92113, 92114, 92115 (part), 92154 (part).

Some “entirely A” areas DO have “B” and/or “Section 8” complexes or “B” blocks but it is not enough to rate part of the area a “B.”

Many “B” areas are saddled with “Section 8 complexes” but are still good areas. In regards to North County, I don’t see some of the areas you mention the same as you do. For instance:

92025: A, B and C (large swath of low income)

92056: B and C (large swath of low income)

92064: A and B (pockets of low income)

92069: A, B and C (low income and lack of zoning in pockets)

92083: A, B and C (large swath of low income)

92128: A and B (lots of fixed income and low income)

92129: A, B and C (lots of low income in pockets)

North County is by no means insulated from poorly-built *newish* “ghettos,” low income residents or crime.

[quote=ctr70]Bearishgirl has never owned a condo but seems to know they all have special assessments and plumbing problems:) I have looked at, talked to and reviewed hoas of dozens and dozens recently and many have not not had special assessments in decades or had very minor ones. But I’m sure there are some bad ones out there…[/quote]

ctr, I don’t need to own a condo to notice all the lawsuits HOA’s have generated in the last 30 years (mostly CD COA’s). Many of the outcomes of these suits didn’t benefit the owners very much in the end. For instance, after 5+ years of lit on the PBT issue, SFR and PUD owners in SD County ended up with about $4400 each. Condo owners ended up with even less. Many of these recipients sold their unit without making repairs. Some HOA’s couldn’t afford to make repairs. The reason I’m so “bearish” on condos is because no “real” property comes with their purchase. The buyer is just purchasing a “fractional interest” of an entire subdivision. The future health and value of each unit depends wholly on the health and capable mgmt or the entire HOA and also on the degree in which owners turn their units over to rentals. With an SFR (unencumbered by an HOA), an owner “has control” over everything about it except the local zoning (known at the time of purchase) or area gentrification (unknown). I wouldn’t buy something for which its future value was completely dependent on people and things I couldn’t control, but that is just me.

[quote=ctr70]Contacting owners direct of vacant properties is a “needle in the haystack” type of strategy and takes a ton of time and effort, using things like direct mail, and you may or may not find something after spending a ton of time most people don’t have. But if you have all that time and could get it to work it would be good. Bearishgirl have you ever bought a property that way? It’s something talked a lot by the “gurus” in books but I don’t meet many non-full time professional buyers that have ever done it. And most of those owners still know what their property is worth and won’t let it go for 20% under it’s current appraised value.[/quote]

No I have not bought any properties this way but have called local owners on behalf of all-cash-buyer friends or visited them with the interested cash buyers in tow. Our offers were good in light of the current condition of the properties but this was 3-4 years ago and owners were still in denial about their property values deteriorating further. We didn’t make any deals and the two properties I’m thinking of are still vacant. One owner has his son visit every couple of mos with a tractor mower to avoid any more weed-abatement citations. The other owner’s spouse won’t let him sell the property as it was hers before they got married. The “weed” property is encumbered for about $28K and the “spouse” property is free and clear (needs a new subfloor, block wall rebuilt, kitchen cabs and a few other things). Both have property taxes of =<$350 yr. So the motivation is very low to sell if they don't need the money right now. Both were former rentals (1500+ sf on 7K to 9K lots) but have been let go to waste so are not currently habitable for tenants. ctr, you might be SHOCKED how many 55+ yo unemployed or partially-employed tradesmen there are out there with adequate CASH to purchase an SFR like this (or purchase with a like-minded equity partner)!! Some are COMBING the area they grew up in and KNOW it like the back of their (weathered) hands. In order to do this successfully, you have to know an area intimately. It helps to already be acquainted the the owner and even their previous tenants and to know the owner's personal situation and motivations. If you don't personally live in the area and walk it, I think it would be hard to do this. [quote=ctr70]And bearishgirl you need to write a book about how you fix these major fixers for less than $5,000:) Apparently all the landlords and investors out there (many contractors themselves) have to spend at least $15k min to fix up most fixer upper SFR rentals they buy right now to make them rent ready. Go visit a few dozen fixers with a yellow pad and cost it out, they have a lot of stuff wrong with them. And it all adds up. But who knows maybe you could do it with all your experience and doing everything yourself, but not many people can. . . . But yeah if you know how to do that stuff or like it, you can save a little money.[/quote] ctr, didn't you know one of my arms has a yellow pad on a clipboard dangling from it with my trusty 1977 Texas Instruments" calculator clamped on?? ;=] ctr, I have recently "acquired" over 500 red brick (for a walkway extension), 55 "new" 12 x 12" tile (for a walk-in closet), abt 350 sf of "lightly used" 18 x 18" tile and a 32" mahogany "fire-door" (in exc cond) with hdwre, and 3 boxes of unused matching Dal-Tile wall tile. Also 6 almost full gal of used ext paint in brown and grey (for fencing) and 3 new bathroom drains. That's just from "bartering" and "free" stuff people had to get rid of! Not to mention that I haven't paid for a plant or shrub in 10 years! There is also spec-builder surplus, overstock pallets at big box stores, discontinued markdowns (make store mgr an offer), craigslist, undelivered special-order windows and doors on clearance, friends cleaning their garages/backyards, etc. These are rentals we're talking about here. As an investment-property owner, you can’t be picky about color, style, model, etc. You also need to have the time to DIY (however “boring” this may sound) and use contractors or handyman very minimally (i.e. to get a new electrical panel signed off).

There’s no shame in being a scavenger if you can use the item. You’re helping someone clean out their own property and bldg mat’ls can be expensive.

As soon as I finish this last headache of a project, I’m going to get up from this desk and get to work!!

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