[bearishgurl]

[quote=urbanrealtor] . . . As far as the Malibu house in question, I would need more information before making that assessment . . . [/quote]

UR, totally agree that some of these “short sale” and “REO” listings are so bad that even the odor inside initially (before beneficiary prep work) will keep potential buyers from remaining in there long enough to consider it. Like the previous Malibu listing stated in the comments, these “heavy fixers” and/or “heavy cleaning jobs” are “not for the weak of heart.”

For that reason, this listing may not have passed the “smell test” but the short-sale transaction did :=}

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Malibu/Coastline-Dr-90265/home/6850638/claw-11-507281

I would guess this listing has probably been a rental for many years.

From the looks of the four photos provided, it appears the eaves around the clerestory windows are rotted or termite eaten and nothing has been done to the inside since the ’60’s.

The vast majority of buyers wouldn’t want to deal with this for $1M.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=EconProf]This is a one-sided discussion in that it is ignoring the benefits of weight training for females. Women make up the majority of the attendees at the LA Fitness I go to, and an increasing share of the free weights users–perhaps 25%. And frankly, with toned arms, hard abs, and strong legs, they look great. Posture is greatly enhanced by the right kind of weight training, another advantage to both men and women.
Surely some female Piggs can weigh in here. Weight training, even if only using light weights and many repetitions, should continue into old age for both men and women.[/quote]

Completely agree, Econprof. Where I work out, there are many females over the age of 65 doing various forms of circuit and lightweight training a few times per wk. Several look like a better version of their 45 yo selves :=]

I also take classes there with several female students 70-75 years old who have years of being a “gym rat” behind them – and it shows!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=ctr70]Bearishgirl, those guidelines are only if you want to get a short sale BEFORE the 3 yr waiting period after short sale for FHA, and BEFORE the 2 yr waiting after short sale for conventional 20% down.

It is pretty straightforward and easy to get a mortgage after a short sale, after a bankruptcy or foreclosure, IF you wait the time periods, you don’t even have to have a great reason or extenuating circumstance for it.

Also, VA only requires a 2 yr wait after a foreclosure and FHA only a 3 yr wait. And all three VA, FHA and conventional loans only 2 yr waits after Chap 7 BK’s. It’s pretty much a slam dunk you will get the loan after these time periods.

Believe me, people who dumped their properties to foreclosure in 2008 and having NO trouble getting back in the market with a 3.5% down FHA loan at 4% right now.

1. VA – 2r wait short sale, BK 7, foreclosure
2. FHA – 3 yrs wait short sale, foreclosure, 2 yr wait BK
3. Conventional – 2 yrs wait short sale (20% down), 2 yr wait BK 7, 7 year wait foreclosure[/quote]

Thank you, ctr70. The OP states he had a short sale in 2010 (abt 18 mos ago?) and currently has a FICO score in the “low 700’s.” He does not appear to meet any “extenuating circumstances” test.

Ball park (and excluding closing costs), what are the rates and terms he could currently expect for an 80% LTV fixed conventional mtg of $400K and a 97.5% LTV fixed FHA mtg of $482,500? Thanks for any help.

[bearishgurl]

Fannie Mae guidelines on underwriting prior short sellers:

https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/guides/ssg/annltrs/pdf/2010/sel1005.pdf

The OP here does not appear to meet the “extenuating circumstances” test.

B3-5.3-08, Extenuating Circumstances for Derogatory Credit (04/01/2009)

Introduction
This topic provides information on extenuating circumstances for derogatory credit information.

Extenuating Circumstances
Extenuating circumstances are nonrecurring events that are beyond the borrower’s control that result in a sudden, significant, and prolonged reduction in income or a catastrophic increase in financial obligations.

If a borrower claims that derogatory information s the result of extenuating circumstances, the lender must substantiate the borrower’s claim. examples of documentation that can be used to support extenuating circumstances include documents that confirm the event (such as a copy of a divorce decree, medical reports or bills, notice of job layoff, job severance papers, etc.) and documents that illustrate factors that contributed to the borrower’s inability to resolve the problems that resulted from the event (such as a copy of insurance papers or claim settlements, property listing agreements, lease agreements, tax returns (covering the periods prior to, during, and after a loss of employment), etc.).

The lender must obtain a letter from the borrower explaining the relevance of the documentation. The letter must support the claims of extenuating circumstances, confirm the nature of the event that led to the bankruptcy or foreclosure-related action, and illustrate the borrower had no reasonable options other than to default on their financial obligations.

see pg 429 of: https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/guides/ssg/sg/pdf/sel063010.pdf

Fannie Mae guidelines on underwriting borrowers with prior foreclosure:

https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/guides/ssg/annltrs/pdf/2010/sel1008.pdf

FHA guidelines on underwriting prior short-sellers:

Mortgagee Letter 09-52, Continued
Summary – FHA Guidance on Short Sales

Borrowers are not eligible for a new FHA mortgage if they pursued a short sale agreement on his or her principal residence simply to
• take advantage of declining market conditions, and
• purchase, at a reduced price, a similar or superior property within a reasonable commuting distance.

http://www.hud.gov/offices/adm/hudclips/letters/mortgagee/files/09-52ml.pdf

Any Piggs please feel free to post an update if these are not the latest and greatest … thank you!

[bearishgurl]

At exactly six months and one day to market again, it appears the “flipper” has followed the rules so as not to trigger a “short sale fraud” allegation on the lender who accepted the short. It will be interesting to find out what the property actually sells for in its “flipped” condition.

Keep us posted, joewhite!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SD Realtor]…You will probably also find that trying to argue what is best for may be lost on others and will simply lead to long long posts that try to meld you into doing something that is for your own good.[/quote]

SDR, I think I’ll take this as a compliment 😀

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SellingMyHome]Why put 20% down? When I run the rent vs buy calculator at NYTimes, the higher deposit makes it better to rent, assuming a 6% or higher ROI, which long-term is doable.

Why not put the 3.5% down? The next house I buy will be my last, if nothing changes with jobs, health, etc. Aren’t interest rates so low now that it makes sense?

I know a lot of people here wish that folks never could have bought with zero or little down, as it allowed many people to walk away with no loss.

I’m really still a little (a lot in some of your eyes) clueless as to why a higher down payment is a better thing for me.[/quote]

SMH, first, the Piggs would like to know which of your “investments” have been giving you a 6% annual return and for how long …

Submitted by SellingMyHome on November 20, 2009 – 12:17pm

. . .

My story [as it relates to my property sold short in 2010]:

. . .

Current mortgage and Property tax add up to $3,300/month. Total household income is about $120K, and I estimate we save about $900 month with the interest deductions, so would need to rent for less than $2,300 to make it work. We could easily find a place for less than that that suites our needs. . . .

Can we afford what we have? Yes, but with two kids under four, we have saved absolutley nothing in the last four years, and have actually been dipping further into our credit cards. I have a great pension at work, and wife contributes to her 401K. Sadly though, we have no savings in case of emergency…

(explanation added)

Reasons to put at least 20% down? We will use a $500K purchase in Alpine, CA, for our example here (1st pymt due 1/1/12):

FHA 96.5% mtg of $482,500 borrowed at 4% fixed for 30 yrs with 0 pts:

Monthly payment (P&I amts are for 1st pymt only and taxes are for 1st full tax bill):

P = $695.20
I = $1608.33
T = $487.50
I = $229.17
MMI = $221.14

Total mo pymt = $3241.34

In addition, your “required up front MMI” of $8750 is thrown to the wind and you don’t have it available after closing for a bag of fertiilizer, etc.

[snip amort table]

payoff amount after ten years is $380,132.60

(for the sake of brevity here, you’ll have to take my word for it, lol)

Conv 80% mtg of $400,000 borrowed at 4% fixed for 30 yrs with 0 pts:

Monthly payment (P&I amts are for 1st pymt only and taxes for for 1st full tax bill):

P = $576.33
I = $1333.33
T = $487.50
I = $229.17

Total mo pymt = $2626.33

A savings of $615.01 mo over FHA!

payoff amount after ten years is $315,135.84

By 1/1/22, you will owe $64,996.76 less with the conventional loan and will have saved $7380.12 in monthly housing costs.

Would the geek Piggs like to figure out the 10-yr return on SMH’s excess (downpayment) of $82,500 if he obtains a conventional loan v an FHA loan?

And, what’s an approx mtg payment savings of $615.01 worth to you, SMH? You stated in your post two years ago that your $3300 payment was too high for you without “dipping into cc’s” every month. Is that still the case?

edit: Of course, the payments above presuppose no MR or HOA dues.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SellingMyHome][quote=bearishgurl]

SMH, that was another intent of my long post . . . to show you, and others like you, in finite detail, where you erred in each step of the process. Maybe you knew where some of your errors were and maybe you didn’t.
[/quote]

And I’m sure others will appreciate it. But, when you pasted in two tables of 30 years of payments, you lost your audience. Presentation is key, and finite detail killed your presentation…

Thanks again for spending time to discuss the issues. What I’m really looking forward to is learning how to do things right in the future, if it’s continuing to rent forever, or spending the proper time researching before buying…[/quote]

It was only 8 years of payments, SMH. You bailed in the 6th year, even though it was your intent to stay there =>10 years. I have actually never used amortization tables on this blog, but thought it would be useful for you to see how your purchase money loans would have amortized if you left them alone.

I have some suggestions for “doing things right in the future.”

1. Save up enough for at least a 20% downpayment + closing costs and at least a $10K “slush-fund” (for reserves and to buy a bag of fertilizer, etc after you move in). I don’t know how old you are, but if you have to quit feeding your retirement accts for awhile to do this, it might be worth it. I really feel that prices will hold fairly steady in the next 3 years, depending on area. Some areas which did not have much distress to begin with, may go up slightly. Your preferred area of Alpine has had a lot of distress and also suffered from a devastating fire in recent years so I don’t see the prices going up very fast there in the next 3 yrs, if at all. HOWEVER, the presence of a new, modern HS in Alpine could very well make it a more desirable destination for families, thus there could be an uptick in prices upon the school’s completion. GUHSD is currently spending a FORTUNE building that school and also rehabbing and expanding Granite Hills HS.

While tightening your belt and saving as much as you can:

-become intimately familiar with all of your desired areas by driving them repeatedly on different times and days and pulling plat maps of those streets or subdivisions from the assessors office. Find out what those owners are paying for fire ins coverage and also the exact amount of annual MR bonds (if applic) and HOA dues (if applic). Do not trust RE agents to tell you how much annual MR is. You need to research it yourself.

-If your desired area is custom semi-rural or rural, talk to some of the homeowners working outside and find out if their street is hooked up to sewer. If not and it is an older tract, find out where the septic tanks are located (front, side, back) and if the back yards are sloping up or down on either side of the st. Try to go to some open houses around there to see how the back yards lay and how far the leachfields are from the dwellings. Find out if well water is available. If it is and the pump is operable, this will save you a FORTUNE!

-Learn everything you can about the values in your desired area. If it is an older tract, learn what those properties were built as PRIOR to all the complete remodels and room additions you now see on the street. Comb thru recent solds online and find out why they sold for what they did (distress sale, custom woodwork, expensive outdoor hardscaping, etc).

-Do not buy on any dark residential streets surrounding Viejas casino, even if not the primary route to/from. They are routinely driven by drivers who may have had too much to drink and even may be temporarily “lost.”

-Run the hard monthly numbers on a “prime” or “Alt-A” mortgage with the assumption that your FICO score is at least 745 (and preferably higher). DO NOT buy with a 1st and 2nd TD purchase money! Buy ONLY with a 1st TD of 80% LTV or less and endeavor to get it with as low of an interest rate as possible without paying points.

-Comb your old settlement statements for all the points and junk fees you paid in the past and DO NOT continue on with the mtg process if your GFE has charges on it that were not discussed with you at the time of application. Perhaps more direct lenders will come back in the picture in the coming months/years which would eliminate “middlemen” and possibly lessen closing costs and fees.

-Most importantly, do NOT buy without knowing what that home will cost you monthly in total, incl all utilities. I would also suggest you stay away from 30/5’s, 30/7’s, I/O’s and ARMs and only agree to a fixed rate mtg as your current responsibilities are such that you need to have predictable housing expenses for many more years.

There is much more but you can start with the above. I wish you the best of luck, SMH!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SellingMyHome] . . . You all need to get back to telling me how I, and others like me, ruined the market. Then go back and show me exactly where I erred, taking the time to show me in finite detail where I erred at each step in the process. Then ask me why I didn’t sell my house at the top of the market, because everyone knew when the top was, right?[/quote]

SMH, that was another intent of my long post . . . to show you, and others like you, in finite detail, where you erred in each step of the process. Maybe you knew where some of your errors were and maybe you didn’t.

I also attribute a good portion of the blame to your incompetent (and/or self-serving) agent, who placed an offer for you (and got it accepted) on the property for far more money than it was worth. As a first-time buyer, a truly competent agent with integrity is sometimes hard to find if you don’t have any experience as a RE principal and don’t have excellent referrals given to you.

“Everyone” did not exactly know where the top of the market was, but when a 60 yo 1700 sf dry-rotted house with old windows and a wall furnace down my street sold to a landscaper and hotel maid for $590K, even my neighbors with zero RE education or experience could see that something was up. How was this couple able to spend that much for a house?? There were clues all around everyone who was not living in large apartment communities, rural areas and/or oblivious to their surroundings.

If you don’t understand where you went wrong, how are you going to avoid the same mistake again?

I hope I was able to shed some light on what happened in your case, even if the numbers were a little off :=]

Pay no mind to sdr’s antics. Instead of contributing anything useful, he unfortunately chooses to play this petty game here. The Piggs have long ago tired of it.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdrealtor] . . . See I just did.[/quote]

LOL, WHERE??

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdrealtor] . . . No one cares what you think. . . [/quote]

Well, YOU seem to care, sdr, the way you routinely troll on in behind me and attempt to discredit me in one sentence (rife with misspellings and grammatical errors). At least my posts have some “substance.” Yours usually don’t say too much except to inexplicably reveal that you currently have a glass in your hand . . . and a corkscrew lying about nearby . . . is there something else we should expect? ;=}

[bearishgurl]

Of course, these comments are “instigated” by sdr, who makes his primary living from the closing of successful “short sales,” lol.

I don’t believe in short sales. I believe a property owner who doesn’t want to pay his/her mtg anymore should just default and take the foreclosure hit on his/her credit report. And lenders “should” foreclose promptly, sparing the rest of us from all the “languishing” of potential depressed shadow inventory out there.

I have and will always maintain that a lender loses far less money if they commence foreclosure proceedings in a timely manner, which is typically what happened BEFORE 2003. The crooked agents handling “short sales” are the ones who are profiting from them and causing (in collusion with greedy sellers who don’t deserve anything) the closing prices of these properties to plummet (on the record) whilst at the same time their undeserving client often miraculously walks away from the sale with even MORE cash in their pockets.

Go figure. It’s par for the course ….

[bearishgurl]

FWIW, I posted that long tirade because the OP’s “underwater” situation was borderline and I believe he could have eventually recovered had he just refied once in ’04 or ’09 thru ’11 and never took cash out. I am fully cognizant of what prevailing rates and terms were during the era of his homeownership for prime, Alt A and subprime buyers.

He also stated that he intended fully on having and raising kids in that house and planned to stay there ten years. He also stated that he is currently renting in Alpine and wishes to purchase there (for more $$ than he spent in Lakeside) and somehow believes it is a better place to raise his children. That is purely subjective, unproven and based upon his posts, I frankly don’t see the OP qualifying to purchase in the $400-$500K range at this time.

It appeared SMH had to sell short because he himself increased his principal amount over the years by taking cash out and repeatedly refinancing. It also appears he (and his agent) were ignorant of the true values of the area (or got caught up in a “bidding war” or both) and he ended up paying too much for the property, initially (which I now feel may have actually been worth $335-$340K at the time). I fully attribute that huge mistake to agent incompetence, since the OP was a 1st-time buyer.

And no, I don’t know the address of the property SMH purchased.

Piggs, I’m not moralizing here and realize a trust deed is a contract. But if every property owner who could afford to pay their mtg got them successfully “crammed down” to the tune of $124K in a successful “short sale” (with a +/- 3-year “slap on the wrist” to their credit), what does this do to the property values of the owners around them? Why should ANYONE keep their mortgages current if they feel they might be even the least bit underwater and see other, more qualified buyers around them purchasing “bigger, newer” properties for less than they paid??

This “strategic defaulter” mindset is a very slippery slope and has far-reaching ramifications for every owner in their immediate area.

I feel the mess this OP made of his credit didn’t have to happen. It was purely voluntary and I feel he needs to OWN it instead of laying the blame somewhere else. The reasons given for his walking, I feel were weak and had little to do with how much he owed.

We all know that if a group home gets permitted on our block or a registered sex offender moves in on our block AFTER we buy and move in, that there is nothing we can really do about that except move. A homebuyer can’t control everything that goes on with every resident in his/her immediate area or subdivision. This happens in “Del Mar” and all the way down the “housing chain.”

Again, I’m not judging you, personally, SMH, but lumping you in with many others who have the same mindset. I could have understood you walking if you purchased in ’05 thru ’07 for a VERY high price and NEVER refinanced or took cash out. But I have little sympathy for strategic defaulters who purchased PRIOR to the “millenium bubble” and not only took cash out but repeatedly allowed refinancing lenders to bamboozle them into exorbitant points and fees, which in many cases, effectively stole more equity from them than the cash they actually extracted from their equity! I don’t think a very large portion of refinancers are actually doing the math to make sure refi closing costs justify how long they will actually carry the new mortgage.

Even if a serial refinancer never extracted any equity, just the fact that they serially refied every time the prevailing mtg interest rate dropped by a fraction of a point, they allowed more of their equity to be `stolen’ each time through closing costs.

Of course, SMH has stated he realizes this now. There is no free lunch here. Again, thank you for putting your situation out there and opening this interesting discussion amongst the Piggs!

[bearishgurl]

I want to backtrack here for a minute because I think SMH’s situation may not have been that “dire.” I will use a “June 2003” buying month for illustrative purposes only. That “era” was nowhere near the height of the RE “bubble.”

[quote=SellingMyHome] . . . There was no reason to leave that house except it was no longer the house we wanted, and felt a bit screwed that it wasn’t worth the money we owed (even from the purchase price). . .

I had hoped for modest price increases, enough to move-up in about 10 years. I never thought, nor still do, that housing should be a money maker . . .

I do prefer those that at least try to pretend they aren’t judging me without knowing my whole story.[/quote]

SMH, my post was not designed to “know your whole story” or “judge you” (hence, I didn’t ask for any information regarding specific amounts of “cash out” taken).

It was to get into the mind of a “strategic defaulter.” Believe it or not, there have been thousands of NOD’s filed in this county in the last three years in which the defaulted amounts and late fees/charges still continue to grow month by month AND in which the defaulted-upon lender has never filed an NOS on. Presumably, the defaulting trustor (or their “paying” tenant”) still resides in these properties. In a few of these cases, I am personally aware that the defaulting trustor still lives in the property and has always been gainfully employed. In other words, nothing has changed in their circumstances to warrant stopping payment on their mortgages except that they felt they were “underwater,” saw others (with obviously better credit than they) recently buy “bigger, `better’ houses for less $$ or consciously decided they would try to ride the “free” foreclosure gravy train as long as possible (until after their property changed hands or reverted to the beneficiary at the time of trustee’s sale).

Of course, we all understand here that nothing is “free.” You pay for these decisions with a big hit to your credit report. And SMH DID. If his credit is currently in the “low 700’s,” he has not yet recovered enough to obtain a “prime” conventional loan.

SMH, let’s just suppose you never refied and just kept the property for ten years, as you intended. You stated you planned on having kids in five years, so you DID plan on starting a family while living there. Ten years from 2003 is 2013. Who’s to say our local market wouldn’t recover significantly by 2013 or 2014? A LOT of things can happen in the next year and I think it’s going to be a wild ride :=]

$400K purchase price in 2003 (assuming credit score =>740 at the time and $0 downpayment):

$320K conv first TD at approx 5.75% fixed for 30 yrs (or 30 due in 7) = $1868.80 mo P & I.

$80K purchase-money private 2nd TD (yes, even if also serviced by a “legit” lender, it was immediately shlepped off on some poor chump at a discount) at approx 7.5% 30 yr fixed due in 10 years (balloon) = $559.20 mo P&I.

$1868.80 1st TD P&I
$ 559.20 2nd TD P&I

$2428.00 Total P&I
$ 54.50 of $654 homeowner policy annual premium
$ 390.00 1st yr monthly property tax ($4680 yr)

$2872.50 Total PITI (1st yr of ownership)

Let’s look at the amortization on the 1st TD:

Amortization table for $320,000.00 (1st pymt 8/1/03)

Month / Year Payment Principal
Paid Interest
Paid Total
Interest Balance
Sept. 2003 $1,867.43 $334.10 $1,533.33 $1,533.33 $319,665.90
Oct. 2003 $1,867.43 $335.70 $1,531.73 $3,065.07 $319,330.20
Nov. 2003 $1,867.43 $337.31 $1,530.12 $4,595.19 $318,992.89
Dec. 2003 $1,867.43 $338.93 $1,528.51 $6,123.70 $318,653.96
Jan. 2004 $1,867.43 $340.55 $1,526.88 $7,650.58 $318,313.42
Feb. 2004 $1,867.43 $342.18 $1,525.25 $9,175.83 $317,971.23
Mar. 2004 $1,867.43 $343.82 $1,523.61 $10,699.44 $317,627.41
April 2004 $1,867.43 $345.47 $1,521.96 $12,221.41 $317,281.94
May 2004 $1,867.43 $347.12 $1,520.31 $13,741.72 $316,934.82
June 2004 $1,867.43 $348.79 $1,518.65 $15,260.36 $316,586.03
July 2004 $1,867.43 $350.46 $1,516.97 $16,777.34 $316,235.57
Aug. 2004 $1,867.43 $352.14 $1,515.30 $18,292.63 $315,883.44
Sept. 2004 $1,867.43 $353.83 $1,513.61 $19,806.24 $315,529.61
Oct. 2004 $1,867.43 $355.52 $1,511.91 $21,318.16 $315,174.09
Nov. 2004 $1,867.43 $357.22 $1,510.21 $22,828.37 $314,816.87
Dec. 2004 $1,867.43 $358.94 $1,508.50 $24,336.86 $314,457.93
Jan. 2005 $1,867.43 $360.66 $1,506.78 $25,843.64 $314,097.28
Feb. 2005 $1,867.43 $362.38 $1,505.05 $27,348.69 $313,734.89
Mar. 2005 $1,867.43 $364.12 $1,503.31 $28,852.00 $313,370.77
April 2005 $1,867.43 $365.86 $1,501.57 $30,353.57 $313,004.91
May 2005 $1,867.43 $367.62 $1,499.82 $31,853.39 $312,637.29
June 2005 $1,867.43 $369.38 $1,498.05 $33,351.44 $312,267.91
July 2005 $1,867.43 $371.15 $1,496.28 $34,847.72 $311,896.76
Aug. 2005 $1,867.43 $372.93 $1,494.51 $36,342.23 $311,523.83
Sept. 2005 $1,867.43 $374.71 $1,492.72 $37,834.95 $311,149.12
Oct. 2005 $1,867.43 $376.51 $1,490.92 $39,325.87 $310,772.61
Nov. 2005 $1,867.43 $378.31 $1,489.12 $40,814.99 $310,394.29
Dec. 2005 $1,867.43 $380.13 $1,487.31 $42,302.29 $310,014.17
Jan. 2006 $1,867.43 $381.95 $1,485.48 $43,787.78 $309,632.22
Feb. 2006 $1,867.43 $383.78 $1,483.65 $45,271.43 $309,248.44
Mar. 2006 $1,867.43 $385.62 $1,481.82 $46,753.25 $308,862.82
April 2006 $1,867.43 $387.47 $1,479.97 $48,233.22 $308,475.36
May 2006 $1,867.43 $389.32 $1,478.11 $49,711.33 $308,086.03
June 2006 $1,867.43 $391.19 $1,476.25 $51,187.57 $307,694.85
July 2006 $1,867.43 $393.06 $1,474.37 $52,661.94 $307,301.78
Aug. 2006 $1,867.43 $394.95 $1,472.49 $54,134.43 $306,906.84
Sept. 2006 $1,867.43 $396.84 $1,470.60 $55,605.03 $306,510.00
Oct. 2006 $1,867.43 $398.74 $1,468.69 $57,073.72 $306,111.26
Nov. 2006 $1,867.43 $400.65 $1,466.78 $58,540.50 $305,710.61
Dec. 2006 $1,867.43 $402.57 $1,464.86 $60,005.37 $305,308.04
Jan. 2007 $1,867.43 $404.50 $1,462.93 $61,468.30 $304,903.54
Feb. 2007 $1,867.43 $406.44 $1,461.00 $62,929.30 $304,497.11
Mar. 2007 $1,867.43 $408.38 $1,459.05 $64,388.35 $304,088.72
April 2007 $1,867.43 $410.34 $1,457.09 $65,845.44 $303,678.38
May 2007 $1,867.43 $412.31 $1,455.13 $67,300.56 $303,266.07
June 2007 $1,867.43 $414.28 $1,453.15 $68,753.71 $302,851.79
July 2007 $1,867.43 $416.27 $1,451.16 $70,204.88 $302,435.52
Aug. 2007 $1,867.43 $418.26 $1,449.17 $71,654.05 $302,017.26
Sept. 2007 $1,867.43 $420.27 $1,447.17 $73,101.22 $301,596.99
Oct. 2007 $1,867.43 $422.28 $1,445.15 $74,546.37 $301,174.71
Nov. 2007 $1,867.43 $424.30 $1,443.13 $75,989.50 $300,750.41
Dec. 2007 $1,867.43 $426.34 $1,441.10 $77,430.59 $300,324.07
Jan. 2008 $1,867.43 $428.38 $1,439.05 $78,869.64 $299,895.69
Feb. 2008 $1,867.43 $430.43 $1,437.00 $80,306.65 $299,465.26
Mar. 2008 $1,867.43 $432.50 $1,434.94 $81,741.58 $299,032.76
April 2008 $1,867.43 $434.57 $1,432.87 $83,174.45 $298,598.19
May 2008 $1,867.43 $436.65 $1,430.78 $84,605.23 $298,161.54
June 2008 $1,867.43 $438.74 $1,428.69 $86,033.92 $297,722.80
July 2008 $1,867.43 $440.84 $1,426.59 $87,460.51 $297,281.95
Aug. 2008 $1,867.43 $442.96 $1,424.48 $88,884.99 $296,839.00
Sept. 2008 $1,867.43 $445.08 $1,422.35 $90,307.34 $296,393.92
Oct. 2008 $1,867.43 $447.21 $1,420.22 $91,727.56 $295,946.71
Nov. 2008 $1,867.43 $449.36 $1,418.08 $93,145.64 $295,497.35
Dec. 2008 $1,867.43 $451.51 $1,415.92 $94,561.56 $295,045.84
Jan. 2009 $1,867.43 $453.67 $1,413.76 $95,975.32 $294,592.17
Feb. 2009 $1,867.43 $455.85 $1,411.59 $97,386.91 $294,136.33
Mar. 2009 $1,867.43 $458.03 $1,409.40 $98,796.32 $293,678.30
April 2009 $1,867.43 $460.22 $1,407.21 $100,203.52 $293,218.07
May 2009 $1,867.43 $462.43 $1,405.00 $101,608.53 $292,755.64
June 2009 $1,867.43 $464.65 $1,402.79 $103,011.31 $292,290.99
July 2009 $1,867.43 $466.87 $1,400.56 $104,411.88 $291,824.12
Aug. 2009 $1,867.43 $469.11 $1,398.32 $105,810.20 $291,355.01
Sept. 2009 $1,867.43 $471.36 $1,396.08 $107,206.28 $290,883.66
Oct. 2009 $1,867.43 $473.62 $1,393.82 $108,600.09 $290,410.04
Nov. 2009 $1,867.43 $475.89 $1,391.55 $109,991.64 $289,934.16
Dec. 2009 $1,867.43 $478.17 $1,389.27 $111,380.91 $289,455.99
Jan. 2010 $1,867.43 $480.46 $1,386.98 $112,767.89 $288,975.53
Feb. 2010 $1,867.43 $482.76 $1,384.67 $114,152.56 $288,492.78
Mar. 2010 $1,867.43 $485.07 $1,382.36 $115,534.92 $288,007.70
April 2010 $1,867.43 $487.40 $1,380.04 $116,914.96 $287,520.31
May 2010 $1,867.43 $489.73 $1,377.70 $118,292.66 $287,030.58
June 2010 $1,867.43 $492.08 $1,375.35 $119,668.01 $286,538.50
July 2010 $1,867.43 $494.44 $1,373.00 $121,041.01 $286,044.06
Aug. 2010 $1,867.43 $496.81 $1,370.63 $122,411.64 $285,547.26
Sept. 2010 $1,867.43 $499.19 $1,368.25 $123,779.89 $285,048.07
Oct. 2010 $1,867.43 $501.58 $1,365.86 $125,145.74 $284,546.49
Nov. 2010 $1,867.43 $503.98 $1,363.45 $126,509.19 $284,042.51
Dec. 2010 $1,867.43 $506.40 $1,361.04 $127,870.23 $283,536.11
Jan. 2011 $1,867.43 $508.82 $1,358.61 $129,228.84 $283,027.29
Feb. 2011 $1,867.43 $511.26 $1,356.17 $130,585.01 $282,516.03
Mar. 2011 $1,867.43 $513.71 $1,353.72 $131,938.74 $282,002.32
April 2011 $1,867.43 $516.17 $1,351.26 $133,290.00 $281,486.15
May 2011 $1,867.43 $518.65 $1,348.79 $134,638.79 $280,967.50
June 2011 $1,867.43 $521.13 $1,346.30 $135,985.09 $280,446.37
July 2011 $1,867.43 $523.63 $1,343.81 $137,328.89 $279,922.75
Aug. 2011 $1,867.43 $526.14 $1,341.30 $138,670.19 $279,396.61
Sept. 2011 $1,867.43 $528.66 $1,338.78 $140,008.97 $278,867.95
Oct. 2011 $1,867.43 $531.19 $1,336.24 $141,345.21 $278,336.76
Nov. 2011 $1,867.43 $533.74 $1,333.70 $142,678.90 $277,803.02

Now the amortization on the 2nd TD:

Amortization table for $80,000.00 (1st pymt 8/1/03

Month / Year Payment Principal
Paid Interest
Paid Total
Interest Balance
Sept. 2003 $559.37 $59.37 $500.00 $500.00 $79,940.63
Oct. 2003 $559.37 $59.74 $499.63 $999.63 $79,880.89
Nov. 2003 $559.37 $60.12 $499.26 $1,498.88 $79,820.77
Dec. 2003 $559.37 $60.49 $498.88 $1,997.76 $79,760.28
Jan. 2004 $559.37 $60.87 $498.50 $2,496.27 $79,699.41
Feb. 2004 $559.37 $61.25 $498.12 $2,994.39 $79,638.16
Mar. 2004 $559.37 $61.63 $497.74 $3,492.13 $79,576.52
April 2004 $559.37 $62.02 $497.35 $3,989.48 $79,514.51
May 2004 $559.37 $62.41 $496.97 $4,486.44 $79,452.10
June 2004 $559.37 $62.80 $496.58 $4,983.02 $79,389.30
July 2004 $559.37 $63.19 $496.18 $5,479.20 $79,326.12
Aug. 2004 $559.37 $63.58 $495.79 $5,974.99 $79,262.53
Sept. 2004 $559.37 $63.98 $495.39 $6,470.38 $79,198.55
Oct. 2004 $559.37 $64.38 $494.99 $6,965.37 $79,134.17
Nov. 2004 $559.37 $64.78 $494.59 $7,459.96 $79,069.39
Dec. 2004 $559.37 $65.19 $494.18 $7,954.15 $79,004.20
Jan. 2005 $559.37 $65.60 $493.78 $8,447.92 $78,938.60
Feb. 2005 $559.37 $66.01 $493.37 $8,941.29 $78,872.60
Mar. 2005 $559.37 $66.42 $492.95 $9,434.24 $78,806.18
April 2005 $559.37 $66.83 $492.54 $9,926.78 $78,739.35
May 2005 $559.37 $67.25 $492.12 $10,418.90 $78,672.10
June 2005 $559.37 $67.67 $491.70 $10,910.60 $78,604.43
July 2005 $559.37 $68.09 $491.28 $11,401.88 $78,536.33
Aug. 2005 $559.37 $68.52 $490.85 $11,892.73 $78,467.81
Sept. 2005 $559.37 $68.95 $490.42 $12,383.16 $78,398.87
Oct. 2005 $559.37 $69.38 $489.99 $12,873.15 $78,329.49
Nov. 2005 $559.37 $69.81 $489.56 $13,362.71 $78,259.67
Dec. 2005 $559.37 $70.25 $489.12 $13,851.83 $78,189.43
Jan. 2006 $559.37 $70.69 $488.68 $14,340.51 $78,118.74
Feb. 2006 $559.37 $71.13 $488.24 $14,828.76 $78,047.61
Mar. 2006 $559.37 $71.57 $487.80 $15,316.55 $77,976.03
April 2006 $559.37 $72.02 $487.35 $15,803.90 $77,904.01
May 2006 $559.37 $72.47 $486.90 $16,290.80 $77,831.54
June 2006 $559.37 $72.92 $486.45 $16,777.25 $77,758.62
July 2006 $559.37 $73.38 $485.99 $17,263.24 $77,685.24
Aug. 2006 $559.37 $73.84 $485.53 $17,748.78 $77,611.40
Sept. 2006 $559.37 $74.30 $485.07 $18,233.85 $77,537.10
Oct. 2006 $559.37 $74.76 $484.61 $18,718.45 $77,462.33
Nov. 2006 $559.37 $75.23 $484.14 $19,202.59 $77,387.10
Dec. 2006 $559.37 $75.70 $483.67 $19,686.26 $77,311.40
Jan. 2007 $559.37 $76.18 $483.20 $20,169.46 $77,235.22
Feb. 2007 $559.37 $76.65 $482.72 $20,652.18 $77,158.57
Mar. 2007 $559.37 $77.13 $482.24 $21,134.42 $77,081.44
April 2007 $559.37 $77.61 $481.76 $21,616.18 $77,003.83
May 2007 $559.37 $78.10 $481.27 $22,097.45 $76,925.73
June 2007 $559.37 $78.59 $480.79 $22,578.24 $76,847.15
July 2007 $559.37 $79.08 $480.29 $23,058.53 $76,768.07
Aug. 2007 $559.37 $79.57 $479.80 $23,538.33 $76,688.50
Sept. 2007 $559.37 $80.07 $479.30 $24,017.64 $76,608.43
Oct. 2007 $559.37 $80.57 $478.80 $24,496.44 $76,527.86
Nov. 2007 $559.37 $81.07 $478.30 $24,974.74 $76,446.79
Dec. 2007 $559.37 $81.58 $477.79 $25,452.53 $76,365.21
Jan. 2008 $559.37 $82.09 $477.28 $25,929.81 $76,283.12
Feb. 2008 $559.37 $82.60 $476.77 $26,406.58 $76,200.52
Mar. 2008 $559.37 $83.12 $476.25 $26,882.84 $76,117.40
April 2008 $559.37 $83.64 $475.73 $27,358.57 $76,033.76
May 2008 $559.37 $84.16 $475.21 $27,833.78 $75,949.60
June 2008 $559.37 $84.69 $474.69 $28,308.47 $75,864.91
July 2008 $559.37 $85.22 $474.16 $28,782.62 $75,779.70
Aug. 2008 $559.37 $85.75 $473.62 $29,256.25 $75,693.95
Sept. 2008 $559.37 $86.28 $473.09 $29,729.33 $75,607.66
Oct. 2008 $559.37 $86.82 $472.55 $30,201.88 $75,520.84
Nov. 2008 $559.37 $87.37 $472.01 $30,673.89 $75,433.47
Dec. 2008 $559.37 $87.91 $471.46 $31,145.35 $75,345.56
Jan. 2009 $559.37 $88.46 $470.91 $31,616.25 $75,257.10
Feb. 2009 $559.37 $89.01 $470.36 $32,086.61 $75,168.09
Mar. 2009 $559.37 $89.57 $469.80 $32,556.41 $75,078.51
April 2009 $559.37 $90.13 $469.24 $33,025.65 $74,988.38
May 2009 $559.37 $90.69 $468.68 $33,494.33 $74,897.69
June 2009 $559.37 $91.26 $468.11 $33,962.44 $74,806.43
July 2009 $559.37 $91.83 $467.54 $34,429.98 $74,714.60
Aug. 2009 $559.37 $92.41 $466.97 $34,896.95 $74,622.19
Sept. 2009 $559.37 $92.98 $466.39 $35,363.34 $74,529.21
Oct. 2009 $559.37 $93.56 $465.81 $35,829.14 $74,435.64
Nov. 2009 $559.37 $94.15 $465.22 $36,294.37 $74,341.50
Dec. 2009 $559.37 $94.74 $464.63 $36,759.00 $74,246.76
Jan. 2010 $559.37 $95.33 $464.04 $37,223.04 $74,151.43
Feb. 2010 $559.37 $95.93 $463.45 $37,686.49 $74,055.50
Mar. 2010 $559.37 $96.52 $462.85 $38,149.34 $73,958.98
April 2010 $559.37 $97.13 $462.24 $38,611.58 $73,861.85
May 2010 $559.37 $97.74 $461.64 $39,073.22 $73,764.12
June 2010 $559.37 $98.35 $461.03 $39,534.24 $73,665.77
July 2010 $559.37 $98.96 $460.41 $39,994.65 $73,566.81
Aug. 2010 $559.37 $99.58 $459.79 $40,454.45 $73,467.23
Sept. 2010 $559.37 $100.20 $459.17 $40,913.62 $73,367.03
Oct. 2010 $559.37 $100.83 $458.54 $41,372.16 $73,266.20
Nov. 2010 $559.37 $101.46 $457.91 $41,830.07 $73,164.74
Dec. 2010 $559.37 $102.09 $457.28 $42,287.35 $73,062.65
Jan. 2011 $559.37 $102.73 $456.64 $42,744.00 $72,959.92
Feb. 2011 $559.37 $103.37 $456.00 $43,199.99 $72,856.55
Mar. 2011 $559.37 $104.02 $455.35 $43,655.35 $72,752.53
April 2011 $559.37 $104.67 $454.70 $44,110.05 $72,647.86
May 2011 $559.37 $105.32 $454.05 $44,564.10 $72,542.54
June 2011 $559.37 $105.98 $453.39 $45,017.49 $72,436.56
July 2011 $559.37 $106.64 $452.73 $45,470.22 $72,329.92
Aug. 2011 $559.37 $107.31 $452.06 $45,922.28 $72,222.61
Sept. 2011 $559.37 $107.98 $451.39 $46,373.67 $72,114.63
Oct. 2011 $559.37 $108.66 $450.72 $46,824.39 $72,005.97
Nov. 2011 $559.37 $109.33 $450.04 $47,274.43 $71,896.64

As I stated above, I used the purchase month as June 2003 for illustrative purposes only.

$277,803.02 (11/11 balance on 1st TD)
$ 71,896.64 (11/11 balance on 2nd TD)

$349,699.66 (payoff amt of 1st & 2nd TD combined)

However, if you had good credit during the period of your “homeownership,” you could have easily refied these two loans (with zero “cash out”) down to a new 15 or 30 year fixed rate loan with 0 pts and low closing costs and reduced your P&I payments up to $1000 per mo enabling you to keep the property indefinitely at a low cost and even turn it into a rental. In 2004 and 2009, mortgage rates were VERY low (for those with good credit) as they are now.

You stated that your house appraised in a 2006 refi for $600K? Why didn’t you sell then (instead of refi) if you wanted out?

Here are some recent sold comps for 92040:

1868 sf for $374K on 6K sf lot:

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-110040824-92040

1648 sf for $345K on 13K sf lot

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-110043310-13605_Julian_Ave_Lakeside_CA_92040

1708 sf for $303K on 1.45 AC

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-110039991-11555_Hi_Ridge_Rd_Lakeside_CA_92040

1708 sf for $360K

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-110053825-11210_Estival_Pl_Lakeside_CA_92040

1766 sf for $320K on 1.25 AC

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-110046170-11820_Hi_Ridge_Rd_Lakeside_CA_92040

1660 sf for $360K

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-110017106-8812_Via_Diego_Terrace_Lakeside_CA_92040

Most of the students enrolled in public schools in Lakeside seem to be doing fine:

Name of School/ 2011 API score

Riverview Elem: 853
Lakeside Farms Elem: 834
Lakeview Elem: 825
Lemon Crest Elem: 820
Lindo Park Elem: 776
Winter Gardens: 699
Tierra Del Sol Middle: 763
El Capitan HS: 738

And GOOD LUCK with your purchase of a (more expensive) purchase in Alpine using FHA. A $500K FHA purchase with 3.5% down has a $17,500 downpayment + the (now exorbitant) MMI paid both up front ($8750) and for the life of the loan ($221.14 mo).

See: http://www.approvedfha.com/fha-mortgage-insurance.html

A homeowner’s policy can be very expensive out there, as well. IMO, you should endeavor to save at least $120K while you are still renting (for a downpayment and closing costs on a $500K purchase) and go “conventional” (when you are finally able to obtain a competitive interest rate).

Alpine does not yet have its own HS (under construction to open 2013 or 2014). Guess where Alpine HS students have been bussed to all these years . . . you guessed it . . . primarily El Capitan (Lakeside) and Granite Hills High!

Name of School/ 2011 API score

Boulder Oaks Elem: 870
Alpine Elem: 861
Shadow Hills Elem: 826
MacQueen Middle: 860
Granite Hills High: 780

There is no “appreciable difference” in the performance of students taking standardized tests at *most* of the Lakeside elem/middle schools v. the Alpine schools.

What I’m trying to illustrate here is that even though you may have not yet been able to yet sell your Lakeside property for enough to pay a RE brokerage fee and closing costs, had you just stayed in the property and NOT withdrawn cash (but possibly refied the 1st & 2nd PM TD’s to 1 mtg with a much lower interest rate), you could very well have been better off today. Taxes have been going down since 2007 (adj voluntarily downwards by the assessor in 2009 and 2010).

I believe the possibility existed for you to eventually sell your Lakeside property at break-even or even a small gain by 2013-2014, so you may have screwed up your credit for nothing. Of course, your credit MAY recover enough to obtain a prime mtg by 2013-2014, but you lost the MID for all the years in the interim. Not sure how valuable that is/was to you.

As large lots go, the grass is not always greener on the other side, “figuratively” or otherwise (“windy, fire prone, hillier” Alpine v. “more sheltered, level-lot, better-located” Lakeside.

*********

SMH, I wish you the best of luck in purchasing with the FHA program in a $400K to $500K price range. Given the recent new regulations, guidelines and *exorbitant* MMI now, I don’t think it’s a very prudent way to buy a property anymore, ESPECIALLY one with a mortgage >$300K.

Just ask yourself how you’re going to be able to successfully jump thru all the hoops you will need to get your FHA lender to eliminate your (approx) $214 mo MMI in the coming years. That and your exorbitant fire ins coverage are going to get old real fast, IMHO. And this all pre-supposes you WILL NOT move into CFD/HOA out there and incur those monthly expenses as well :={

[bearishgurl]

SMH, The parts of your story I find most troubling are your apparent inability to save much money (even when renting), why you didn’t try to sell at the peak (it was NOT 2003, btw) and why you were charged so much for refis. It leads one to believe that your credit wasn’t so good from the get go (even though it may have been). Also, I truly believe you may have paid too much when you first bought the property, considering it was on a smallish lot for that area. I haven’t actually researched this but wonder if the 2003 SFR sold comps in 92040 were actually closer to about $188 sf at that time.

Thanks for allowing us Piggs to peer into the mind of a “strategic defaulter.”

[Author]

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