[bearishgurl]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Public workers often work themselves to death […][/quote]

Melodramatic, but true.

But why not tell the whole truth:

“All classes of workers often work themselves to death.”

Or do you actually believe the hardships of ordinary life never happen to the 90% of the workforce that aren’t in the public sector?[/quote]

Agreed, but it would stand to reason that for a worker who works for an employer without a “defined benefit plan,” that there isn’t as much incentive to stay on the payroll (even if they hate the job or organization or are technically “sick”) in order to vest, reach a certain age to collect a pension or qualify for Medicare (since many public employers’ retirement systems do not fully subsidize health care benefits). If an employee is sick, or was sick in the last ten years or so, it would be folly for them to give up their health benefits and go on COBRA (since an individual plan for them would no doubt be very cost-prohibitive). This huge healthcare issue applies to ALL workers (government and private sector).

[bearishgurl]

As to broker/agent commissons, I’m with the Piggs who stated it’s a free country. If you are a potential seller, sell FSBO! Go ahead and allow all manner of lowlifes and casers to traipse thru your property during nights and weekends (when you need to relax). If you follow them around too close, and they are “legitimate, qualified buyers,” you could easily make them uncomfortable and want to leave.

And make sure you “stage” your property properly and keep all your pets secured for as long as it takes to sell it.

No lockbox? Without a lockbox, your property will not be easy to show. Potential buyers will just flock to properties they can see NOW.

If you are able to “qualify” potential buyers first (at your kitchen table??), go ahead and call the lender they presumably applied with for a mortgage (to verify their qualifications) and see how far you get. Willing to carry paper? Try to run their credit report yourself!

Need forms? Go buy a forms kit. Don’t know how to fill them out or where to start (or which ones to use)? Too bad, so sad …. wing it!!

Uh oh . . . forgot disclosures (or don’t know which ones to use for your particular property)?? This is NOT GOOD! Better keep an (expensive) attorney chained to your ankle. Do not pass Go and do not collect $200.

And the above is all assuming you, as a seller, are NOT currently “underwater.” It’s a “minefield” out there, Piggs. I could go on …. LOL :=]

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]I don’t see the average public worker (ESP safety and CALTRANS) living beyond their seventies and even that is a stretch to me.

Again, SDCERA workers are but a microcosm of all public workers in CA. I myself am a SDCERA “deferred retiree.”[/quote]
Data for life expectancy: http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=average+life+expectancy

Average right now is 78. So, assuming average public employees have similar expectancy to average American, then I would say you made a valid statement that the average won’t make it past their 70s. A good portion will make it into their 80s, though <50%. See that trend line? It's going higher.

Are these average pension numbers public information?[/quote]

I haven't seen SDCERA actuarial tables but know the ages of death are lower for safety members. Anecdotally, I don't believe public workers live as long as private workers and those who never worked, due to a multitude of factors.

What I've SEEN are workers who died IN SERVICE and thus their families were only able to collect the "worker contribution" portion of their retirement accounts (IF the deceased employee actually contributed to them). I've seen workers die months to perhaps 10 years after retiring. These were workers who were NOT in "Tier A" and thus had smallish pensions with very small (if any) worker contributions in them. Why, you may ask?? Public workers often work themselves to death ... or attempt to work during chemotherapy and return to work as soon as medically released after open-heart surgery, etc.

The public hoopla over enormous pensions is over executives and safety workers with ridiculous OT but these pensions are NOT anywhere near the norm. The non-safety "worker-bee" public worker who often serves the public outnumbers the executive worker (with a fat personally-negotiated pension deal) by at least 300 to 1. Even within safety organizations, there are hundreds of lower-paid non-sworn staff doing "grunt work."

The vast majority of non-safety "middle-manager" positions were all but eliminated in the county by 2002, using a "two-year service credit" carrot.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN] . . . An average of pension at $28k/year comes out to $800k-$1M over 30-40 years of receiving such benefits. A $100k/year pension comes out to $3M-$4M over 30-40 years. . . . [/quote]

AN, TG was talking about SDCERA. As I posted earlier on this thread, this “avg $28K annually” pension was predicated on the employee being in “Tier A.” Only about 10-15% percent of employees in “Tier A” have actually retired (10-15% of approx 17K employees = 1700 – 2550 employees). SRT to non-safety workers, the average pension for employees who retired under Tier I is about $1150 mo and the average pension for those (few) who retired until Tier II is about $850 mo (most workers under “Tier II” elected to change their tier to “Tier A” in March of 2002 and take much higher payroll deductions for retirement). Even though eligible to retire at 55, the vast majority of SDCERA workers retire at age 60-62, because the age-55 pension is only a portion of the full pension, unless the worker already has 30 years service in by age 55 (with no interruptions such as FML and LWOP).

I personally don’t see where these workers are collecting pensions for “30-40 years.” Very, very often, public workers retire a little earlier than they want to due to health reasons. I personally have been to a few funerals of both active and retired SDCERA members. The stress of many of these jobs (due to relentless demand by the public) causes many these workers to stop taking care of themselves as soon as they reach a level where they are responsible for other workers. What I SEE is a lot of early disability and a fair amount of early deaths.

As to “Tier A” employees (whose “avg pension” will be $28K annually), the jury is still out on them. I use a multitude of county offices and courts weekly and from what I can see, for the most part, this group does not take care of themselves from an even earlier age. Obesity is rampant among this mostly Gen X/Y group which was not nearly so omnipresent in my group (boomers).

I don’t see the average public worker (ESP safety and CALTRANS) living beyond their seventies and even that is a stretch to me. What I have seen is that many workers are actually too disabled to work the last 1-3 years of their public “career” but endeavor to keep their positions anyway … until they can’t.

Again, SDCERA workers are but a microcosm of all public workers in CA. I myself am a SDCERA “deferred retiree.”

[bearishgurl]

[quote=pri_dk] . . . To use the argument that you and BG repeat ad nauseam: “If it’s so good, why don’t you do it?”

You don’t even have to wait for an opening, and don’t have to vest before you start receiving your full, generous, “government subsidized” compensation. Go for it![/quote]

And this, in a nutshell, is the reason why Joe6P-Pigg and Joe6p-nonPigg alike do NOT routinely apply for these positions! The “time lapse” between getting hired, serving one or more “probationary periods” and ultimately getting “vested” at the five or ten-year mark could prove to be “problematic,” at the very least.

It all looks easy and “cushy” at the outset … that is, until one actually “goes thru the motions” required to actually “vest” in one of these “complicated” retirement plans.

Herein lies the problem. :=D

Thank you for clarifying this issue for the forum, pri_dk. You have bolstered what I’m trying to say here … immeasurably. Keep your thinking cap on and keep going ……. ;=]

[bearishgurl]

[quote=markmax33]Do you think the GOV should cut some of the non-critical services to an appropriate level for the employees employed? Maybe some of the spending during the fat housing bubble years should be reevaluated, or reevaluated quicker.[/quote]

markmax, this has already happened in all the jurisdictions I am familiar with. Due mainly to non-replacement of retirees, personnel has been cut back so far that one “front line employee” is now doing the work of about 2.5 workers of just 12-15 years ago. Granted, most Departments are more automated now, making employees more productive, but workers still get sick and take vacations, often leaving their post sporadically covered while out, or if not a worker who directly serves the public, uncovered. Meanwhile, the public’s needs never stop. Hence, the 9+ months of traffic convolopes piled up to be processed. In my example, the court actually DID have online DMV reporting in place. But there has to be a clerk sitting at that post to report to the DMV the traffic case outcomes as they are processed by the court clerks and the fine payments are registered in the system. Besides checking if the bail and other fines are paid, each case may have other items to check for compliance such as class attendance, group meeting attendance, traffic school attendance, etc. It’s not as quick as it seems and takes several clerks to process a traffic case, especially misdemeanors. I’ve been in my local branch court early in the morning and have seen HUNDREDS of people lined up for traffic court in one morning and at least 50 get out of line into another group to plead not guilty and ask for trials.

To an outsider, it all looks like a “clean, paper-pushing job,” but the work is relentless in a large county of a very populous state such as CA.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=walterwhite]ok, if ron paul is into legalizing drugs, then he’s all right. ron paul in 2012! I’m not moved by the fed reserve stuff, but if he wants to end the war on drugs, i think he’s a-ok….[/quote]

scaredy, I agree that the “war on drugs” has been mostly futile and has cost our country a bundle over the years. I’m also against petty drug crimes being prosecuted. Not only do these needless prosecutions create more (expensive) “three-strikers” to languish in the criminal justice system and then be warehoused (and “job security” for the scaredy cats of the world), they suck up ungodly amounts of multiple agencies time and court time and leave thousands of minor children as wards of the state. Even if these children are placed temporarily with other relatives, those relatives are paid by counties to feed and house them and those children then become eligible for Medi-Cal.

I’m all for leaving these parents who “got caught” possessing at their jobs so they can continue to make their restitution payments and support their families. Yes, even if they are “repeat offenders.” Or at the very least, short term residential rehab should be ordered, if necessary, to get that parent back whole again so they can work.

If Ron Paul has this same or similar mindset, then I, too, am for him.

[bearishgurl]

On the “OT: Public Employees…” thread, I posted this:

[quote=bearishgurl on January 13, 2012 – 5:07pm] …I’m still waiting to hear the travails of your “comfortable and secure” six-figure public-worker household who wanted to explore a “short sale” possibility (of their residence?) :=D[/quote]

Well??

[bearishgurl]

dupe

[bearishgurl]

On this thread, I again asked the question:

[quote=bearishgurl on January 13, 2012 – 2:36pm]If you don’t mind my asking, why is this well-paid-and-secure couple seeking to sell their property short??[/quote]

[bearishgurl]

[quote=UCGal][quote=sdrealtor]We are going to have a contest and the winner gets a decent bottle of wine. I just got back from a potential clients and saw their year end paystubs for last year. I did not list the property because it didnt fit what I thought I could do. Its a dual income household. Both work in the public sector. One in health care and the other in public safety. Lets see who can guess the 2011 gross earnings for the household not including any benefits paid for by their employer.

Have at it and dont be afraid of going over.

Contest runs through Monday.[/quote]
Why were potential clients showing you their paystubs? Maybe I’m naive, but why would someone show a person they were interviewing to hire *their* paystubs? Or do people normally show private, fiscal data in interviewing agents?

Mortgage brokers, maybe… real estate brokers they haven’t hired yet? Seems far fetched.[/quote]

See the “Another Crash in 2012?” thread. I’m still waiting to hear the answer to this $64M question :=]

[quote=bearishgurl on January 12, 2012 -11:49pm][quote=sdrealtor on January 12, 2012 – 5:20pm]I asked what the employee pays not what the employer pays. I have seen tax returns from several public employees and was appalled what they were paid. If you add what the “employers” paid to these compensation figures and show me the numbers I would probably get even sicker. I dont have the stomach to see those numbers.

FYI, tomorrow I am picking up tax returns from another public servant I am doing a short sale for. I hope I can stomach them.[/quote]. . . Why . . . does this mean you have lost all respect for your next “squat-SS `victim’”?? Or perhaps you believe that they have a “questionable” hardship story? Which is it . . . exactly???[/quote]

[bearishgurl]

[quote=temeculaguy]I could bore you to death with the reality of pensions and how they are calculated, but this is a fact. There are 368 people retired from sd county making $8,300 or more per month in pension benefits. There are 36,000 members, so 1% have pensions of 100k or more.

http://www.sdcera.org/about_us.htm

This is the second largest county in the state and the 5th largest in the united states, over 3 million people, and the thousands of blogs and posts are about 368 people. Let’s just keep some perspective. So before you assume that evey run of the mill government employee gets some fantastic deal, get the facts, they are probably just as out of touch as the perception that all realtors make 6 figures.

I am not protecting myself, I’m not one of the 368, but I’m also not an NBA player or a CEO, some have more than me and some have less. You just happen to run into some who had more, that doesn’t mean they all do. In fact the average gov’t pension in san diego county is $28,284 per year. But it’s more fun to scream about the rare exceptions.[/quote]

Thanks for this post, TG. The above (bolded) is the average pension for a “Tier A” employee. Tier I/II employees average far less. (Likely, only a small percentage of current retirees who are in the original “Tier I” group [began employment prior to 1978 and retired prior to 3/02] are still alive.) The ones that are are no doubt eligible for Medicare.

You failed to clarify that the 36,000 SDCERA “members” include active employees as well. That number represents about 1/2 active employees and 1/2 retired employees. There are likely 6-12 deaths per month among the retired employees.

SDCERA is just a small microcosm of ONE public subdivision within the State of CA. Each of the 58 counties and hundreds of and municipalities’ retirement systems have their own nuances within their own respective retirement systems. 37 counties are “reciprocal” to each other, meaning an employee can transfer service credits between “reciprocal” counties in CA.

It is refreshing to read a post from a Pigg who knows what they’re talking about :=]

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdrealtor]I havent seen one of her posts in weeks but found myself ROTFLMAO when I saw saw the quoted passage “the short answer is….” because without even having access to the rest of the answer I am certain it was follwed by a thousand words or more that failed to make a point short or otherwise.[/quote]

Why don’t you pull yourself up from the floor (that is, if you can), change your current refreshment to soda water or black coffee and jog your impaired memory. Firstly, think about every question you put out there where you demand an answer and get one, from me. If its not something you want to hear (or, more likely, you are in no condition to respond to it), you’ve simply ignored it and drowned yourself in your grape juice and/or insulted me with various and sundry epithets, etc ;=}

If you could possibly endeavor to understand the WHOLE answer, you might learn something.

I’m still waiting to hear the travails of your “comfortable and secure” six-figure public-worker household who wanted to explore a “short sale” possibility (of their residence?) :=D

Piggs, do you hear violins playing in the background??

[bearishgurl]

[quote=ucodegen][quote bearishgurl]These public jobs are for the taking, Piggs. I urge you to apply and go thru the “selection process.” It will be an “eye-opening” experience even if you don’t get hired.[/quote]How many of these ‘selection process’ rules/procedures/requirements are actually required and how many of them are rote, because that is the way it is always done or to fulfill some political agenda?[/quote]

Why don’t you apply for work with your favorite agency and find out, uco? Or better yet, get yourself “hired on” as a “consultant” to the SD Superior Court and set them up on a reliable electronic multi-agency reporting system! I’m sure since the wheel has not been invented yet, they would embrace the ideas of a genius like you who likely has the contacts and rights to get them up properly for the 21st century :=P

[bearishgurl]

If you don’t mind my asking, why is this well-paid-and-secure couple seeking to sell their property short??

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