[bearishgurl]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=bearishgurl]Flyer, it doesn’t seem like you’re taking into account defined benefit pensions paid monthly to boomer-and-beyond households. The vast majority of the over-55 cohort that I’m acquainted with have at least one DB pension coming into the household. And about 3/4 of those households ALSO paid into Social Security (whether or not they are currently collecting any). With one or more DB pensions combined with SS paid to one or more persons of a household, certainly this is enough money for a 1-2 person household to live relatively comfortably and indefinitely …. especially if their primary residence is paid off.

I realize that most boomers came from families with 3-6 kids and that any inheritance from the last parent who died would likely be split up among the heirs which would account for smaller inheritances in a large portion of families (don’t know the percentage). This is assuming the last remaining parent didn’t use a lot of long term care or avail themselves of LT care on Medi-Cal in their final years (which would cause a MC lien to be placed on any real property they owned).[/quote]

Perfect example of why anecdotes are not the same as data. For the last 35 years, fewer than 30% of workers were covered by DB plans. Even among those with some kind of plan, fewer than half had DB plans, and those numbers are much lower today than they were 35 years ago. Today, that number is less than 10%.

There is no period of time over the last 60 years when average families had 3-6 kids. And we have to go back 100 years since more families had more than 2 or more children than fewer than 2.

The people that surround you are not representative of the rest of the population.[/quote]

SK, are you factoring in military retirees? Military pensions are akin to DB pensions and I included them in my assumptions. Also, I am referring to about 60% seniors (those currently 70 and older) and 40% boomers (those currently 51 to 69 yrs old who are already “retired.”). The bulk of senior households DID and DO HAVE at least one DB pension coming in, incl military retirements. The bulk of those collecting DB pensions also have guaranteed health coverage for life or a guaranteed healthcare allowance for life or both (single or couple).

It is the generations UNDER the boomers (almost all still working) who have lost DB pensions or healthcare coverage/allowance in retirement. Most of these changes were made in all levels of government ~2001-2002. At that time, the boomer cohort was already long-vested and most of the (now) senior cohort was already retired.

Some areas of SD County are flush with well-established military and govm’t-retiree households (from all levels of govm’t) and my area is one of those. It most certainly IS HIGHLY REPRESENTATIVE of San Diego County retiree demographics residing just ~6 miles from the main SD NAVAL BASE (32nd St) privileges such as commissary, exchange, gas and auto repair, etc and just slightly further from military privileges at NASNI Coronado, and, to a lesser extent, Ream Field (IB). Likewise, military retiree-residents are in abundance surrounding Miramar MCAS and other large bases elsewhere in the state. There are also many retired sworn staff (collecting more generous “Class C” DB pensions) around here, who have guaranteed health coverage for life beginning from date of retirement, as part of their pension pkgs. Military retirees (from active duty, NOT reserve) automatically get Tricare Standard (similar to a PPO) for themselves and their immediate families from their retirement date onwards (retired reservists receive the coverage at age 60). Most younger military retirees use Tricare Standard as secondary coverage (to their coverage from employment) because it only covers 75% of its allowable charge (or 80% if the provider is a “Tricare Extra” provider or “in network”). Tricare Standard has a low $150 deductible per individual per year for a max annual deductible of $300 per family. If a military retiree or their family member must rely on Tricare Standard, a private Tricare supplement is not too costly (~$25 – $75 mo, depending on age).

http://www.tricare.mil/Costs/HealthPlanCosts/TSE/RET.aspx

A military retiree and/or their family members may also sign up for Tricare Prime (an “HMO”), for a low annual enrollment fee and low copays but a beneficiary cannot self-select specialists with this plan:

http://www.tricare.mil/Costs/HealthPlanCosts/PrimeOptions/EnrollmentFees.aspx

Upon eligibility for Medicare, a military retiree (and their spouse, if/when eligible for MC) are automatically covered by “Tricare for Life” for their MC Part B & D coverage. TFL beneficiaries DO NOT PAY A DIME for healthcare coverage (as long as they use “network” providers, which, in SD, includes the entire Scripps Health system)! They also get almost all their prescriptions free from the military, mailed free of charge to their homes.

There are also Indian Health Services (IHS) eligible individuals (and their families) and VA-eligible individuals who never pay a dime out of pocket for healthcare. In addition, legally disabled individuals under the age of 65 are eligible for Medi-Cal/Medicaid, AND, in some cases, Medicare. And don’t forget PacBell, AT&T and utility retirees!

You’re skipping over a boatload of people, here, SK.

And yes, shoveler, I do know seniors on the SCAN Medicare Advantage program. Their premiums are lowish and they pay NOTHING out of pocket but the problem I have seen with this program is that the patient cannot choose their providers, rehab centers or skilled nursing facilities. SCAN chooses them for them. And they must go through their PCP for any referrals to a specialist. They can’t self-select any providers. For those reasons, it’s not the best Medicare supplement out there, IMO, despite its cheaper monthly premium.

I’ve already decided that I’m going with a MC Part B/D program (NOT a MC Advantage Plan) and will go with United Health or Aetna carriers (or Cigna if I leave the state) plus their brand-name drug options for Part D when my time comes to sign up for MC. Like many thousands of people in this county, I will have an even more generous healthcare allowance upon eligibility for MC. I’ve helped a few seniors get off their el-cheapo absolutely useless, pay-nothing, fly-by-night “MC Advantage programs” during the fall and sign up for part B and D coverage. I highly recommend Part B & D coverage over Advantage Plans like SCAN, especially if you will retire in an area more than 30 mins drive from a hospital. Again, you pay for what you get in this life.

I just talked with two local govm’t workers over the weekend who will retire from SD’s (City’s) DROP program at the age of 55. The City’s DROP was one of the most generous retirement programs in the nation (now taken off the table) and these individuals are currently only 52 and 54 years old! Not only are their houses paid off, but they will each retire with 29 and 30 years service respectively with all of the above and more benefits and perks and are essentially set for life!

I don’t see a healthcare crisis at all (except maybe with the 10-25 yo set due to the childhood obesity epidemic). Am I missing something here??

As to long-term care, I do see an issue here as this can easily cost $5-$10K month in SD County, depending on facility. I don’t know anyone who has long-term care insurance and yes, the cost of LT care could ostensibly “clean someone out,” assuming they couldn’t move in with kids and/or didn’t quitclaim any CA real property they own to kids/heirs FAR in advance (8+ yrs?) of a perceived need to avail themselves of LT care on Medi-Cal (which would likely be a “substandard” facility, anyway). They would also have to spend down the bulk of their liquid assets LONG before using Medi-Cal to cover long-term care. It’s going to be interesting to see how all this pans out for the “heirs” of those who go into LT care. And yes, I agree with FIH’s post. The US will have to import more nurses if our colleges aren’t cranking out enough of them at all levels to address this future need.

All but one of the boomers I know who lost both parents had to split their “inheritance” with 2 or more siblings (and/or the heirs of a deceased sibling). SK, you’re a boomer who grew up in SD, no? How many siblings do/did you have? Are both of your parents still alive?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=flyer]That’s good to know that some believe Boomers as a whole are better prepared than they have been in the past, but, imo, those numbers are still dismal for a comfortable retirement long term (depending on how you want to live) and, based on the small percentage of those with a high net worth, (stats reveal only about 8% of US households–of all ages, not just Boomers–have over a million in net worth, excluding primary residence) they are hardly predictive of a huge transfer of wealth among generations across the board.

Granted, as I mentioned before, 10% of us will do extremely well in retirement across all generations, but there is still concern, as a society, about the 90% who won’t.[/quote]

flyer, do you think an individual or couple needs $1M in investable assets (not incl equity in principal residence) in order to retire? And would they need less than $1M if one or both of them had DB pensions?

With a paid-off residence with a $3-$5K annual tax bill and no HOA dues, what do you think is an adequate monthly income for a retired couple in SD county? How about a single retiree? Assume that the oldest member of the household or the single retiree is wishing to retire at 62 years old.

[bearishgurl]

Flyer, it doesn’t seem like you’re taking into account defined benefit pensions paid monthly to boomer-and-beyond households. The vast majority of the over-55 cohort that I’m acquainted with have at least one DB pension coming into the household. And about 3/4 of those households ALSO paid into Social Security (whether or not they are currently collecting any). With one or more DB pensions combined with SS paid to one or more persons of a household, certainly this is enough money for a 1-2 person household to live relatively comfortably and indefinitely …. especially if their primary residence is paid off.

I realize that most boomers came from families with 3-6 kids and that any inheritance from the last parent who died would likely be split up among the heirs which would account for smaller inheritances in a large portion of families (don’t know the percentage). This is assuming the last remaining parent didn’t use a lot of long term care or avail themselves of LT care on Medi-Cal in their final years (which would cause a MC lien to be placed on any real property they owned).

I just think these “doom and gloom” forecasts for retiring boomers are overhyped …. the writers aren’t really understanding how this massive population exists day to day with a good portion of them never withdrawing invested or saved $$ for monthly bills and necessities … esp those boomers who are still working (FT or PT) and are not yet eligible for SS.

flyer, I’m not sure where you are witnessing a lot of boomers who are unable to retire or unable to pay their bills. The only households I see around me who are “going broke” or “deeply in debt” are the ones who had too many kids who are all still minors and/or have parent(s) of minor children who have been unable to maintain steady employment over the years.

The boomers and seniors around here are doing just fine!

[bearishgurl]

I agree with flyer in that actually getting admitted is where the rubber meets the road. Once your kid sets foot on campus, that is merely the beginning of their odyssey. One step at a time, especially for a freshman away from home for the first time!

Your kid still has to focus and pass all their classes and you (as a parent) can’t hold their hand anymore. There are so many things (both on and off-campus) which could derail your kid’s best intentions, depending upon how easily they are influenced by peers and coworkers, etc. Distractions abound on a college campus (esp a large public university campus) and so your kid has to be focused and self-motivated in order to graduate in 4-4.5 years. And very, VERY assertive and decisive on their scheduled dates and times for ongoing class registration!

If they’re not there yet, better for them to stay home and attend CC for a couple of years, imho.

[bearishgurl]

There’s no law mandating every incoming college student must file a FAFSA. Obviously, those households making $400-500K annually aren’t qualified for any need-based aid.

In that case, you can apply for merit-based scholarships separately IF they do not require a simultaneous filing of the FAFSA. Or avail yourselves of any aid/scholarships for which your kid(s) are automatically eligible.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=cvmom][quote=bearishgurl]If you already know filing a FAFSA won’t do you or your student any good, then don’t file one.[/quote]

Does anyone else have a perspective on this? With our income in the junior/senior year >$400K there is zero chance for aid from Ivy or any other school, I would think. So why go through all the time/energy to fill it out? Any reason? Or can we skip it?[/quote]

cvmom, I do believe not filing the FAFSA “helped” our kids get into their 1st/2nd choice CSU campuses with low/mid B average (marginal) qualifications from HS (due to focusing too much on time-consuming extra-curriculars – wasn’t my idea but couldn’t stop it/fix it). I believe this feat is really only realistically possible for a FAFSA filer if your kid resides in the “service area” of a CSU which they applied to and is only partially impacted, especially now! (SDSU is COMPLETELY impacted.) “Service area” applicants (those from public school districts and private HS’s surrounding the campus) are held to lower admission standards than applicants from the rest of the state, then OOS applicants and last OOC applicants, who are held to the highest admission standards.

Believe it or not, it’s not that easy to get admitted to ANY CSU campus today, especially for a first/second-choice major and even moreso if that major is impacted. That’s why I advocated applying to six or more campuses at once through CSU mentor. Another trick is … the earlier applicants are given highest priority for consideration, so best to file applications as soon on or after October 1 as possible. The freshman application deadline for the following fall admission is November 30.

If you find all this incredible, just look on a college forum such as collegeconfidential.com in the admission threads for each campus and you will see both freshman AND CC transfer applicants posting in APRIL with high 3’s GPA and multiple AP credits (freshman applicants) who haven’t even been admitted yet for the following fall and are becoming worried. Some applied to multiple campuses and still haven’t yet been admitted anywhere.

We always brought in our OWN aid ….. after the fact (after my kid had already accepted their admission offer). My kids were/are eligible for CalVet waivers (tuition portion of fees only) and another scholarship which currently pays out a maximum of $8025 year (if attending classes FT all year-round) as long as they maintain at least a 2.0 GPA at university. The scholarship pays the rest of the fees, parking and books (totaling $2974 for this academic year). I process all the scholarship paperwork myself in a timely manner and the checks get sent to the Financial Aid office where they immediately forward them to the bursar/cashier. The FA office doesn’t do any work on behalf of my student except receive and forward checks.

My youngest is staying for this summer and the CalVet waiver only waives a very small portion of CSU tuition for summer because the “extension universities” provide the instructors for summer classes (at an additional cost to the CSU) due to the vast majority of the regular university teaching staff taking the summer off. So this summer will cost $2209 and there is enough scholarship money left to cover it AND help a little with room and board expenses.

At a CC, my understanding is that CalVet waives tuition fees (only) for eligible students year-round.

CSU on-campus housing expenses have increased greatly over the past decade due to new construction and modernizing older dorms to provide more security and wifi, etc. And the CSU is raising their housing costs another 6-10% (depending on campus) for Academic Year 2015-16. Not all campuses have resident housing requirements for freshmen but most do, as most now have enough on-campus housing to accommodate all freshmen who need it. I believe the residency parameters for freshmen (to be required to live in on-campus housing) are about 38 miles from an urban-area campus and 50 miles from a semi-rural or rural campus.

38 miles can actually prove to be a very long commute in a highly-congested urban area.

At the conclusion of this summer’s term, my youngest will likely move off campus.

Sorry for the length. It feels like I’ve spent a l-o-o-ong time dealing with the CSU and I’ve got a little over 3 years left and then I’m fre-e-e-e! (My kids are far apart in age.)

[bearishgurl]

Norco reception center awaits your arrival, Piggs …

[bearishgurl]

[quote=svelte] . . . Scaredy – you’re sounding more and more like a defense lawyer every day! . . .[/quote]In scaredy’s defense, he comes by that trait honestly, svelte! It’s a “JOB” that “somebody has to do.”

Maybe scaredy has a “ride-along” package you could sign up for where you could “shadow” him for one week. H@ll, maybe on a week where you could take a little road trip to visit one of CA’s “BIG Houses!”

Remember, if you’re going to stop for Mickey D’s along the way, you need to bring enough for everyone!

I think it would be enlightening for y’all (ALL Piggs) to “shadow” the likes of scaredy for at least one business day.

Signed,

Lived it for decades, breathed it, know it cold

PS: Without the scaredy’s of the world, the “system” would completely collapse …. within 24 hours.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=The-Shoveler] . . . Once you hit 75-80 it is very very unlikely your going to be riding off road motorcycles etc…[/quote]

They don’t ride them (or the jetskis) themselves, shoveler. They either take a few grandkids with them or the parents meet them for all or part of the trip.

Lots of families around here go to the river every summer … or Lake Havasu. Some own cabins or timeshares there. The grandparents just tow up the toys from SD and maybe bring an RV/5th wheel to house more people.

[bearishgurl]

Just a couple fav summer road-trip events for the boomer and beyond set:

http://www.fjsummit.org/

More than half these drivers in the above annual “summit” are 60-75 years old and drive in from all over the nation. It’s pretty difficult to obtain the experience to navigate these high, narrow, rocky trails competently when you’re a 20/30-something worker bee stuck in the city 50 weeks per year.

http://www.rallysturgis.com/dates/

Don’t kid yourselves, Piggs. Most of the “Sturgis crowd” is now in the 55-70 yo bracket, including the ladies, lol …. I see couples ride their Honda Interstates together or in pairs all the way up there in my travels. Yeah … up to 2000 miles one way ….. they’re part of the “motor lodge” crowd.

That reminds me … it’s about time to book my Flagstaff motor lodge nights for up/back to/from my flyover destinations (not the above this year). It gets filled up fast in the summer and you don’t want to pass through that town on any summer evening without a verified and locked-down motel reservation … trust me on that.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=The-Shoveler]I think you need to factory other things (do you own a economical car and can you make basic car and home repairs etc.._).

I don’t think you need to own a high maintenance BMW etc.. (in fact most people really don’t know how to handle a Boat/plane or high performance car etc.. to begin with).

You can get by with say up to a 5K property tax bill easy with around 3K SS or pension coming in (I see people do it all the time).[/quote]

I’m just going by most seniors I know who own and drive older cars. They usually pay for everything they have done on them … oil changes, tires and bigger jobs at the shop. No, they’re not expensive, high maintenance vehicles.

Okay shoveler, I guess one could pay up to $5K yr in property taxes out of a $36K annual income. But that’s a chunk of change for that level income. Perhaps they can just withdraw from savings for their annual tax bill only … and for any longer trips they might take.

I’m not a “senior citizen” yet but I’m a “road warrior” several weeks out of the year. I can tell you that the senior citizen demographic is alive and well out there on the road everywhere towing their 5th wheel, MC’s, boats, ATVs, jetskis or traveling in RV’s towing an economy car behind it, etc. It’s not uncommon for them to be gone a month or two. Most of them who travel in RVs or have 5th wheel trailers take their pets with them. Another subset drives a more economical vehicle and stays in motor lodges with their pets (that’s “my” group). It costs MONEY to do this! Gas is cheaper now but RVs don’t get good gas mileage and their owners also have to pay for campsites and other expenses and still pay the bills back home.

It’s a real stretch living on $36K and taking modest road trips if the bare bones bills back home are too high. $200K to $500K might only last 20 years if invested risk free. I guess that’s okay if you’re near 70 when you finally “retire.” But NOT okay if you’re 60-65.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=The-Shoveler]IMO as long as your home is paid off (with a low prop 13 tax base) (not one of those homes with a 15-20k MR and tax bill)

I think you could easily make it on a lot less than a million in the bank (retirement).

I think people are being push to take high risk when there is no real need IMO.

200 – 500K should be enough to live really well (with a paid off home and low tax base)(SS and/or pension included of course).[/quote]

Agree except need to clarify last paragraph. The taxes need to be less than $800 year AND the pension/SS together needs to be $3K mo … to live comfortably and be able to make home and vehicle repairs and travel occasionally (1 or 2 person hshld).

If your property tax bill is more than $800 year and your monthly pension/SS is lower than $3K, than you will likely need $600K to $1M, depending on family longevity and other factors.

[bearishgurl]

Folks, your “millionaire next door” neighbor is driving a 1998 Buick and does his/her own yardwork. You can’t even imagine how many households in SD fit this criteria … or anywhere else in the country, for that matter. “Millionare” is such a loose, misunderstood term. You can’t eat your house. You still need pensions and SS and SD’s senior citizen cohort has all that in spades … in every single zip code.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN]What is the demographic breakdown of millionaire households in the United States?

-Virtually all are, on average, college educated. . . [/quote]

AN, I don’t believe this …. at all. Where did this info come from?

I know of MANY households with a net worth of $1M whose heads of households have little or NO college! Shoveler is correct in that older coastal CA has many thousands of them. Of course, in most cases, most of their “net worth” is tied up in real property, either “inherited” or purchased 3-6 decades ago.

I have more than a DOZEN relatives who are lifelong residents of “flyover states” who are easily worth $1-$5M and two more are worth $8-$10M. I think only 5-6 of them attended college (retired schoolteachers and principals living in lifelong dual-income households).

Yes, the vast majority of these people are over 55 years old today (NOT 50). The biggest portion of that subset are over 65 years old today.

Some (10-20%) likely never finished high school.

I don’t think this level of wealth/security can be accumulated today without a college degree, unless deriving from a TF. It’s much harder now to save, due to the much higher cost of living, especially in coastal CA.

However, I DO HAVE a nephew (age 24), married with a 22 yo spouse, both who work FT and live in “flyover country,” who will have their 3/2/2 home paid off at the end of this year. So having lifetime security is much more obtainable in certain parts of the country but the $64M question is “Would the Piggs want to live there?” And would they want to have the type of job my nephew does (manning/servicing oil rigs), even for just a few years?

[bearishgurl]

Very interesting info, nla. I’m afraid my kids’ other parent made/makes way too much for us to ever be able to file a FAFSA and we’d also fail the “CSS Profile” test. So no aid for our kids.

I wouldn’t care to put all my business out there like that, anyway, even for an “Ivy app.” That seems worse than a mortgage application and akin to an investigation for a nominee to Presidential Cabinet selection! Big Brother at its finest …. Hmmmph.

It’s moot anyway, as my kids managed to be so busy enjoying themselves thru their extra-curricular activities in HS that they turned out to be low/mid “B” students …. so obviously weren’t qualified for acceptance into the UC or Ivies. Those schools weren’t even worth applying to.

Congrats again on your kid getting into Ivy, nla! IIRC, he/she also graduated in the Class of 2014 from a SUHSD school, as my youngest did!

[Author]

Posts